Saw my new GP today to ask about Gender Clinic referral. He was really rude and insensitive about the whole thing. Spouting stuff like "you know you won't actually BE a man right? it doesn't change much"

he then proceeded to tell me that statistics show that "a very large percentage of people who transition regret it afterwards"

and a load of other crap about I probably won't get treatment on the NHS and blah blah

but I pestered and eventually he said he'd contact the PCT about funding and everything, and if they agree to it then he will refer me. I just have to wait for a letter now.

I understand the whole wanting to make sure I'm sure I want to be referred, but quoting me completely false "statistics" and telling me I will never be a real man is not helpful ¬_¬

 

Complain, complain, complain. Complain to his practice, complain to the NHS, complain to the GMC. Make life hell for him. He should lose his job!!

Not much point in complaining about any Dr.


May I also suggest you get your presentation right.

You've had an introduction to the attitudes to expect. Now, rewrite your presentation based upon that.

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Post Merge: February 05, 2010, 07:39:45 AM

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In complaining to the NHS.

The NHS will proudly claim they have a complaints procedure and that you can complain about a Dr.

The reality is no Dr will co-operate with it. So, in their case, it's useless.

I know of a case, a couple of years ago, when a woman, visiting this country had a severe heart attack. She was lying in a hospital bed, so weak she was unable to move.

A Dr came in, marched past the woman's two daughters and asked this woman if she was registered with the NHS. When the woman said no, the Dr told her she had to leave immediatly, then stormed out. The woman was left tramatised and died shortly afterwards.

A complaint was made which resulted in a letter of apology from the hospital. No action against the Dr.

In the case of his pracice, he almost certainly owns it, at least in part.. He will also get the automatic backing of any oter Drs there.

Um, so you're saying one should not complain about unacceptable behaviour by suppose professional because it might not result in anything being done about it? Um no!

More or less.

These people are above the law. They regulate themselves and few question their opinions, pronouncements or judgements.

I originally wrote about a long term issue over a complaint I made which has still not been resolved. I deleted it because it is still a bit sensitive and while most people here are very positive and encouraging, I don't think I can cope with being dismissed over the issue. besides. the second example seems adequate.

I am still astonished by the huge numbers of supposedly intelligent and generally so called middle class people who scoff at the very idea of making a complaint.

I'm suggesting, nay, strongly suggesting that you change your approach. Make them feel powerful and significant.

Try to avoid sounding sad, or dispirited. They will walk all over that.

Avoid confrontations of any kind. That is just challenging them.

Don't tell them what you want. They will tell you what you get.

Go in and say you are experiencing some strong issues with how you feel about your gender. You just don't feel right being female/male. It isn't the physical necessities of being female/male.

Inside, you have the feelings of being male/female.

Can you possibly see a gender therapist to discuss it?

If he asks of you are gay, SAY YES.

Don't, whatever you do, say you're bi. Drs hate ambiguity and will assume you are heterosexual but experimenting or just lack morals.

If he asks if you've had relations with the opposite sex, yes, but these weren't satisfying at all. Then briefly describe relations, over a period, with your own sex with you in the role of your desired sex.

OK. I know this is broadly dishonest, but you're dealing with a bunch of very strong egos here who are really only interested in what will serve their own inadequacies.

Remember, most Drs are basically failures.

Getting into medical school takes the top qualifications. These people are used to adulation. But, even though they won't admit it, every student in medical school wants to be a surgeon. Sadly, only about 3% are selected.

The rest scramble for places as physicians, Anaesthetists, the social cripples become psychiatrists, the rest, the majority, go into general medicine.

Failures who have a snappy title and a pile of books.

They need their egos polishing. If you want anything from them, polish their ego.

@spacial:  And how does all that ranting help Jeatyn?

@Jeatyn:  If you want to, file a complaint.  If not, wait on the letter.  Are you able to see another GP?  I'm not exactly sure how the NHS works with that aspect.  Do you have the resources to go private?

About the whole not being a "real" man deal.  Does he mean your DNA?  If so, he's right.  Hormones and surgery can't change that.  But if he means who you are inside, how you present, and what your body looks like physically, you will very much look like a man and be a man.  It's possible he hasn't treated many trans patients before so he doesn't know what T and surgery are capable of.  I suggest printing off some transition literature and/or pictures for him to look at.

Seeing less than understanding providers can be hard for people like us.  I wouldn't advise lying to your doctor though to make it "easier."  Tell as much as you feel comfortable with.  Be yourself, but keep your goals in mind.  Be assertive.  If you don't get the letter or funding with this guy, talk to someone else about your options.

Quote from: Adio on February 06, 2010, 02:15:58 PM
@spacial:  And how does all that ranting help Jeatyn?

The first response was to Jeatyn

The second was to Keroppi

The advice I gave in the second response is appropriate for Jeatyn.

As for ranting, what do you expect. That what I do!!

Quote from: spacial on February 06, 2010, 11:38:02 AM
But, even though they won't admit it, every student in medical school wants to be a surgeon. Sadly, only about 3% are selected.

I just adore the self-sealing quality of your statement.

"Even though they won't admit it, every woman wants to be a man."
"I don't."
"Oh, yes, you do; you just won't admit it."

"Even though they won't admit it, every boy wants to be a firefighter."
"I don't."
"Oh, yes, you do; you just won't admit it."

"Even though they won't admit it, everybody wants to be straight."
"I don't."
"Oh, yes, you do; you just won't admit it."

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 05, 2010, 12:00:06 PM
he then proceeded to tell me that statistics show that "a very large percentage of people who transition regret it afterwards"

It's in conversations like that I want to wave about a sign with "[citation needed]" on it.

OK Arch, I understad where you're comming from.

But training for a profession is a bit different from casting aspersions about people.

People go into an exam. Everyone wants to pass. Everyone wants to pass with top marks. The reality is, most won't.

People who are accepted into medical school are those who have consistantly achieved the highest grades in their education. They are also the people who have consistantly achieved the highest social standards.

These are people who are use to achieveing and the general recognition that comes with it.

They go into medical school and all are the same. For the first tme, each is competing on their own level.

Being accepted into surgical training is the pinnacal of achievement for trainee doctors. For those that achieve this, they are the best of the best.

Now, I'm very sorry to disillision you. I'm especially sorry to shatter the illusions of the kind hearted doctors from TV. The truth is, doctors are professionals. They conduct themselves, to their patients, in a professional manner, much like any other professional.

You can think of a professional like an actor. What you see during their performance is not how these people are in reality.

GP work is dull and routine. It involves a lot of time and hours, house calls, often a waste of time. Patients presenting when there is nothing wrong with them. Patients getting agressive.Patients demanding things. Limited time with each patient, even when it appears that more time might be needed.

You would be surprised how many people demand viagra for example. Not something I would need of course, but I have sat in a GP office and before I could say anything been told, You can't have Viagra. An experience many people, men especially have had.

GPs are the filters. They find the patients in need and refer them to better qualified specialists.

GPs are humans. Bored, cynical, frustrated. They are as affected by the various bigotries as everyone else.

If you want something from your GP, especially something a little unusual or controversial, you need to learn how to ask.

OK?

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Post Merge: February 06, 2010, 04:48:01 PM

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Quote from: Teknoir on February 06, 2010, 04:21:08 PM
It's in conversations like that I want to wave about a sign with "[citation needed]" on it.

If I were making a declaration of reference then possibly, though I wouldn't give it.

But I'm not making any declaration. I'm simply advising Jeatyn not to start making complaints about his GP.

Firstly because it won't do any good at all.

Secondly, because it will simply get him a very bad reputation among all the GPs.

I was asked for clarification by Keroppi and I gave it.

If you don't like reality then I suggest you don't look.

Sorry, but life isn't like TV. For anyone.

Quote from: spacial on February 06, 2010, 04:43:52 PM
If I were making a declaration of reference then possibly, though I wouldn't give it.

But I'm not making any declaration. I'm simply advising Jeatyn not to start making complaints about his GP.

Firstly because it won't do any good at all.

Secondly, because it will simply get him a very bad reputation among all the GPs.

I was asked for clarification by Keroppi and I gave it.

If you don't like reality then I suggest you don't look.

Sorry, but life isn't like TV. For anyone.

What?

Eject the insect from your headgear have a look at what I quoted in my post with regards to where that remark was aimed.

The joke is a dead horse, but I think you're overreacting. I see nothing worthy of getting snippy over.

Teknoir

I'm not snippy. I'm really sorry if you got that impression.

 

If you believe one shouldn't complaint even when a doctor have been unprofessional, that's up to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

...back on topic:

Jeatyn: I don't really know how the NHS works... can you get another doctor?  Is this a more or less one time thing that you can just get through and then put behind you?

The truth is that a large percentage of people don't can't and will never understand what we go through, and despite the pop culture stereotype, doctors are no less likely to be ignorant or bigoted than anyone else.  Seems you drew the short straw on that guy, so here's hoping it doesn't get in the way too much.

Quote from: Keroppi on February 06, 2010, 08:37:19 PM


If you believe one shouldn't complaint even when a doctor have been unprofessional, that's up to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

That isn't what I said.

There is no means to complain. All that you can achieve is be labeled as a trouble maker.

The best course of action is to change your approach.

A lot of posts in the thread have confused me slightly but I'll try and answer 

I have gotten further with this doctor that my old one, who messed me around and lied utterly. At least I have had talk of a referral, so I won't find another doctor unless things go horribly wrong, I'm just playing the waiting game for my letter now. (if it's coming)

I was wanting to complain about my old doctor...but I saw a bunch of different doctors...over an long period of time...and I don't feel like I have enough evidence or a good enough memory to prove that they were messing me about.

I'm trying to scrape together as much money as possible to go private but unless I get a proper job it's not looking likely.

Best of luck Jeatyn.

Hi Jeatyn,
.
Regarding complaints:  If you're still working with this doctor, don't complain.  You may not like their attitude, but if you're getting what you need, a complaint won't help you.  Chances are, you're their only Gender patient, so they'll know any complaint that arises came from you...and they can make your life difficult because of it, or stop giving you what you need.
.
If you leave this doctor, then by all means, complain.  However, some ways are more effective than others.  If your complaint comes across as "I just didn't like what they had to say,"  your complaint won't have much of an effect.  If the doc keeps pushing this tripe, tell him you've only heard the opposite, and ask for his sources.  If he doesn't have sources, put that in the complaint...and cite your own sources to counter.  It probably won't get him fired, but if you present it well, he'll at least get a good talking to from his superior about being insensitive and for not checking his sources.  Also this will put it on his record should it happen again to someone else.
.
If you can get it funded, do so.  I'm funding my own, and it isn't easy. 
.
.
Spacial:  I understand what you're saying..."work the system"...(though I think you take the extreme end of that)  and sometimes you have to work it to some extent, because the gatekeepers don't understand much about where we're coming from.
.
I think you're wrong and a bit cynical about doctors though.  Everyone is different.  Some actually LIKE working and interracting with people...and they go into GP because of it.  Over-generalizations that completely lack any supporting statistics or sources that pigeon-hole an entire group of people never hold up to the truth in my experience.  Whether that person is talking about ALL F2Ms, All M2Fs or All Doctors, it's the same general principle.  If you don't like it when others do it to you....perhaps consider not doing it to others.

You may be right kay.

My cynicism is based upon many years of dealing with many different Drs both as a patient and collegues.

But all I was saying is that there are no facilities to make a complaint. So, rather than risk being labeled a trouble maker, learn how to deal with these people.

However. I am very grateful for the feedback. I have learnt, over the years, that people in general seem to have an irrational trust and loyality in Drs. Some of the feedback here has been a little OTT. But it's interesting to have my cpnclusions confirmed again.

Quote from: spacial on February 07, 2010, 05:29:46 PM
I have learnt, over the years, that people in general seem to have an irrational trust and loyality in Drs.

I haven't seen as much of this as you apparently have. And in my experiences with trans people, it certainly isn't true; but trans people are not "people in general."

I've had a few friends who went to med school. Before they actually started med school, one was already planning to be a pediatrician, one was already planning a career in anesthesiology, and one other wanted to be a GP. I knew another gal who was applying to med schools (and got into a few) who wasn't sure what she wanted to do, but surgery wasn't an option she mentioned to me. She talked about prosthetic specialties of some kind (she had a degree in bioengineering), and some kind of disease research, but not surgery. I've actually never had a friend who told me he or she was planning a career in surgery.

My point is that before they even start med school, there are plenty of people who plan careers in something other than surgery. I feel that to generalize in the way that you did is a disservice to these folks and many others like them. My GP, by the way, treats me with great respect and listens to me and values what I say. He never seems to want adulation, and I sure as heck don't give it to him. Respect, yes. Ego-boo, no.