Xsocialworker all you are doing in this thread is proving that people on the left can be just as hateful, spiteful, bigoted and down right nasty as people on the right. I see this all the time in discussions of American politics and it confuses me. In other countries people of differing political views can disagree with each other without having to hate each other, why isn't this possible in the USA? And why is it that people seem to be required to agree 100% with their chosen party's stand on every single issue in the US? I can find things that I agree and disagree with in almost all the parties platforms here in my country. I don't think any of them are evil just because I don't agree with everything they stand for. It all seems very strange.

Quote from: Wendy1974 on February 20, 2010, 11:19:36 AM
Xsocialworker all you are doing in this thread is proving that people on the left can be just as hateful, spiteful, bigoted and down right nasty as people on the right. I see this all the time in discussions of American politics and it confuses me. In other countries people of differing political views can disagree with each other without having to hate each other, why isn't this possible in the USA? And why is it that people seem to be required to agree 100% with their chosen party's stand on every single issue in the US? I can find things that I agree and disagree with in almost all the parties platforms here in my country. I don't think any of them are evil just because I don't agree with everything they stand for. It all seems very strange.

What I find most ironic is how often significant intolerance is shown and accepted under the guise of fighting intolerance.

I agree with Gov.Howard Dean that the left needs to fight back and hard. Remember Lyndon Johnson and Medicare? We need a public option on Health Care with 51 votes. As for making fun of right-wing wing nuts? I think they need to get it back as good as they give. If Ann Coulter can call Rachel Maddow a man, I think she is fair game for being called a transsexual. Sorry. I have no problem satirizing figures of the right in any terms that might fit. They started "Death Panels" and "Fema Death Camps".

Quote from: xsocialworker on February 20, 2010, 03:46:56 PM
I agree with Gov.Howard Dean that the left needs to fight back and hard. Remember Lyndon Johnson and Medicare? We need a public option on Health Care with 51 votes. As for making fun of right-wing wing nuts? I think they need to get it back as good as they give. If Ann Coulter can call Rachel Maddow a man, I think she is fair game for being called a transsexual. Sorry. I have no problem satirizing figures of the right in any terms that might fit. They started "Death Panels" and "Fema Death Camps".

I lean to the right, I'm not a public figure but do you want to attack me too?   

Quote from: Wendy1974 on February 20, 2010, 11:19:36 AM
Xsocialworker all you are doing in this thread is proving that people on the left can be just as hateful, spiteful, bigoted and down right nasty as people on the right. I see this all the time in discussions of American politics and it confuses me. In other countries people of differing political views can disagree with each other without having to hate each other, why isn't this possible in the USA?

Right. That's why free speech and religious tolerance reign supreme in Afganistan, Pakistan, Somolia, Russia, China, and the hundred plus other freedom-loving democracies around this peaceful globe - only the U.S.A. prevents freedom by actually allowing people to criticize those they disagree with, and to allow them to criticize robustly back. Name-calling and invictive is not needed in an intelligent conversation; a rule I sometimes adhere to. With a very few exceptions, I do not hate anyone for an opinion; a hateful and violent opinion based in ignorance or malice can earn my hate.

People on the "left" ARE just as hateful, spiteful, bigoted and downright nasty as people on the wrong (sic). That's because they are just as human as those who adhire to the philosophies of the Fasicist Republic parties infecting this country.

Speaking of why can't we all get along, I see a couple of girls are spoiling to feel all agrieved and the targets of evil-doing left wingers. 

xsocialworker - I saw where you tried to back this down. Nice try, but nice fire.

Perhaps someoone in authority should move this to a political area.

SusanKG

Quote from: xsocialworker on February 20, 2010, 03:46:56 PM
I agree with Gov.Howard Dean that the left needs to fight back and hard.

Eh?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Jenine Garafelo, etc, etc, etc.

Or is someone only "hateful" when they are on the other end of the political spectrum from you?

The irony here is that Coulter and Rush and so forth think THEY are the ones "fighting back" against the views of the aforementioned

My guess is more would get done if less were fighting.

Quote from: Laura Hope on February 21, 2010, 01:29:29 AM
Eh?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Jenine Garafelo, etc, etc, etc.

Or is someone only "hateful" when they are on the other end of the political spectrum from you?

The irony here is that Coulter and Rush and so forth think THEY are the ones "fighting back" against the views of the aforementioned

My guess is more would get done if less were fighting.

I couldn't agree with you more. The problem is nothing ever gets solved or even discussed civilly because at some point somebody starts getting mean and spiteful, which makes the other side start getting mean and spiteful, which provokes more hostility and spite, till nobody is doing anything but throwing insults at each other.

The other problem is people who utterly refuse to try and see why other people have different views to them, and what compels those views. They just spend all their effort thinking up ways to attack them rather than questioning if maybe they have a point.

Quote from: Valentina on February 20, 2010, 03:51:30 AM
Yup she's one of us.  I'm very sure she's human & not an extraterrestrial.

Now that I don't agree with! I think she is from outer space.

Quote from: Laura Hope on February 21, 2010, 01:29:29 AM
Eh?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Jenine Garafelo, etc, etc, etc.

Or is someone only "hateful" when they are on the other end of the political spectrum from you?

The irony here is that Coulter and Rush and so forth think THEY are the ones "fighting back" against the views of the aforementioned

My guess is more would get done if less were fighting.

I never miss any of their shows and I pretty much agree with all of them on everything. You left out Chris Matthews and Ed Schultz. MSNBC is my only source for news and I admit that being an Olbermannbot is no different than blindly following Fox Noise. However, I feel very much at home on the far left. Sorry I ever started this, but the right has been full of closet cases and it's makes it funnier because the right is the political advocates of repealing  laws protecting Trans people. Look up Tim Pawlenty, the so-called moderate. Look up the current campaign in Gainsville Fl.

Quote from: SusanKG on February 21, 2010, 12:52:23 AM
Right. That's why free speech and religious tolerance reign supreme in Afganistan, Pakistan, Somolia, Russia, China, and the hundred plus other freedom-loving democracies around this peaceful globe - only the U.S.A. prevents freedom by actually allowing people to criticize those they disagree with

You are right Susan the USA is the only freedom loving democracy in the world, all other countries are backwards, intolerant, banana republics where fear and hate reign supreme.

There are advocates of rolling our rights backwards including Tim Pawlenty, Paul Scott, David Caton, and Tim Widmon. Just watching the Democrats being hamstrung by the Republican minority is nauseating. We should have Health Care Reform,, Enda, and ending DADT completed by now. As I am not in Congress nor have my own show on MSNBC or HBO, I like to rant on various forums and poke fun at right-wing pundits. If the moderators of this place ask me to stop, I'll stop and keep my posts to voice and permanent eye make-up.

Quote from: xsocialworker on February 21, 2010, 07:50:01 AM


I never miss any of their shows and I pretty much agree with all of them on everything. You left out Chris Matthews and Ed Schultz. MSNBC is my only source for news and I admit that being an Olbermannbot is no different than blindly following Fox Noise. However, I feel very much at home on the far left.

As long as you are honest with yourself that KO rants as much as RL and BM is basically the mirror reflection of AC, I'm fine with it. I've no need to change your political views, so long as you are not fooling yourself that one side is made up of more fair and reasonable people than the other.

Quote
Sorry I ever started this, but the right has been full of closet cases and it's makes it funnier because the right is the political advocates of repealing  laws protecting Trans people. Look up Tim Pawlenty, the so-called moderate. Look up the current campaign in Gainsville Fl.

Do I wish that those on the right had a more accepting view on trans (and broader LGBT) issues?

Oh hell yeah.

The reason I lean right, though, is because my political world doesn't stop at my own doorstep. If all I was worried about was my own personal good then I'd favor any politician who would put more money in my pocket and see after my own needs more than those of others.

BUT

As it turns out, having full rights in a country too bankrupt to continue existing is kind of an empty victory. Find me a politician, in ANY party, who defends my rights AND knows how to manage the economy and control the size and cost of government, and I'll hit the streets for that person.

I've yet to see one.

I might be wrong but I think I'm MORE likely to find an "economic conservative" who can be persuaded to  accept people like me and protect our rights than I am to find a hard let politician who is friendly to LGBT issues who can be persuaded that government spending is not the answer to every problem.

I'd take either one though.

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Post Merge: February 21, 2010, 11:35:14 AM

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Quote from: xsocialworker on February 21, 2010, 08:51:01 AM
There are advocates of rolling our rights backwards including Tim Pawlenty, Paul Scott, David Caton, and Tim Widmon. Just watching the Democrats being hamstrung by the Republican minority is nauseating. We should have Health Care Reform,, Enda, and ending DADT completed by now. As I am not in Congress nor have my own show on MSNBC or HBO, I like to rant on various forums and poke fun at right-wing pundits. If the moderators of this place ask me to stop, I'll stop and keep my posts to voice and permanent eye make-up.

If you think any of those things was prevented by Republicans, with all due respect, you are letting your partisan views blind you to reality. If the Democrats all agreed on those pieces of legislation, they would be done by now because they have the votes.

In point of fact, those things have not been done because of far left Democrats (Pelosi and Ried at the forefront) insisting on provisions that moderate Democrats couldn't support.

There is no grounds upon which to blame the GOP because they have (or had, before Scott Brown) no power to stop anything.

It's the same difference as when the Republicans were in charge but couldn't please the middle-far right because every time they tried Lincoln Chafee or Arlen Spector would screw it up. And that which pleased, for instance, Tom Couburn didn't please Spector and vice-versa.

Interesting, at first I didn't want to touch this Thread with a 10' anything, but I find that reading posts from both sides of the spectrum, I can't hold out any longer. I feel both the left and right over-react, over sensationalize, take everything said out of context and exploit it to their own stance high up on their respective pedestals. I read the news on Drudge report I try to look at things in a neutral position, and will not make stupid comments on anyones feeling or theories.

As far as Ann goes, yes she's human, and a damn good looking one at that! What she says is her business, I listen, I analyze, I file data. there are those I disagree with but not all the time, and there are those I agree with, but again, not all the time.

God I love this country!
Evie

Being an extremist is more fun. I wonder if William F. Buckley would have supported transgender rights. Barry Goldwater came around to being a supporter for Gay rights and Merle Haggard endorsed Hilary

Just a guess - I'm thinking Buckley would have been at roughly the same position as Goldwater.

The moralistic problems in the GOP arose from the fact that those who were energized by the desire to stop abortion-on-demand (a position I'm sympathetic too and think is at least a legitimate motivation for political activism) also brought with them their cultural presuppositions about a host of other moralistic issues that are not properly the role of government.

the thing is, those people became so very active in the grassroots of the party that no major politician dared risk alienating these people because they were the lifeblood of the party primary system.

The thing to note is that, except for pretty rare instances (DOMA for instance) once these politicians get in office they go out of there way to stay away from those issues.

My guess is that most of them are not anti-gay (or trans, whatever) at all so much as just craven enough to acquiesce to the base.


Which I'd resent a lot more except that that's what politics has always been. the true visionary leaders who change the paradigm are almost non-existent.

Lol, I took her for a Dominatrix!  I work in a bookstore and we always have a good laugh when her books come out. All you have to do is look at the book cover and imagine a whip and some handcuffs....bwahahaha!

It took two pages, but we got back to the alleged right to abortion on demand issue. Well, OK, I do support the right to an abortion when I and my doctor decide that is the correct treatment for me. I also support receiving proper counseling, hormone therapy, on-going medical care and assistance throughout my transition, and proper GRS surgery when the time comes. I also support the right to proper treatment for illness, proper care and needed surgery for heart problems, stroke, broken limbs, gout, ingrown nails, mental and emotional difficulties, and the hundreds of other medical issues people face. So I guess, yes, I support socialized health care for my country. Anything else is depraved indifference to millions of Americans, just as denying access to an abortion to millions of Americans is vicious moralizing by the facist wrong wingers. What the wrong wing has done for health care for eight years and much longer when they had the political power is NOTHING, except calling for restricting people's right to sue and receive damages for, well, damages.

Quote from: Wendy1974 on February 21, 2010, 08:08:59 AM
You are right Susan the USA is the only freedom loving democracy in the world, all other countries are backwards, intolerant, banana republics where fear and hate reign supreme.

I guess that's sarcasm; my quote did not claim the USA was the only freedom-loving country in the world.

And I know, I'm doing my part in totally departing from the topic of xscialworker's thread here - Ann Coulter, and whether it is proper to intimate she is transgendered. I repeat my self: IF she is transgendered, and IF she has attacked other transgendered persons or transgender rights, she is properly a target of that line of attack. Otherwise, let's keep it adult and proper by restraining ourselves to calling her the ninny she is!

SusanKG

Amanda Simpson's government appointment was denounced on loads of right-wing blogs.

The fact that we can still have a political discussion complete with criticism of democrats/republicans/right wing/left wing/ etc tells me that our government is still basically OK. When dissenting talk is repressed is when real trouble starts. So we've swung left, eventually we'll swing right, and so on.

As for ann, shes like anybody else. I take what she has to say with a grain of salt. Sure, she is outspoken but so is rush, olberman, maddow, hannity, and many others. Listen to who you like and agree with.

And I don't think that she is trans.

I still think she is, but ultimately it only matters because of the hypocracy of the right like Larry Craig opposing ENDA and Mark Foley.