I don't have any children but I do understand what you must be going through because of this. All we can ever do is what seems right to us when we do it, and no one can be blamed for that.

What you said:

Quote from: mtfbuckeye on February 24, 2010, 09:33:31 AMAll that said, I'm getting ever closer to my breaking point. I'd never abandon my children, but at some point they'd be better off with a happy, well-adjusted, part-time parent, rather than a miserable bastard, no?

is wise and I agree with that. You obviously care a lot for your children. I think there comes a point where we can't be a good parent (or spouse or child) if we are so miserable ourselves, and if it drives us to that breaking point then that doesn't seem to be helping anyone, really. Maybe helping yourself to be settled is a way of helping them too? I hope you can work things out because in any case all of you deserve to be happy. *hugs*

Most everyone has given good advice to you. My advice is for your wife - those who make ultimatums should always be prepared for the recipient to take the "or else" option.

WR

I would focus on getting your own ducks in a row.  Right now she has most of the power in your relationship, and that is skewing the situation a little bit.  Put yourself in a position where you CAN make a decision for yourself, and then do.

Right now you say you have a decision, but the way you describe it(No full-time job, living at her parents, kids) it doesn't sound like you have much of a decision at all.

Go to therapy so you can keep sane, but start working on putting yourself in a better position.  Start saving money.  Become able to survive on your own if she leaves you.  Survival is the most important thing.  Once you have that stuff done, then I would say transition.  You live life once, and if she can't support and love you, then she never really loved you in the first place IMO.  she cares too much about how you look, and not enough about who you are IMO.

If people like us, want what they want - then I think that notion ought to be extended to the rest of the world also.  So the wants, needs and desires of Buckeye are no more or less valid then those of the wife in this or any other situation, and kids sure change it.  I was very happy and content to work for very little money doing stuff I liked, living on Raman noodles and peanut butter and spending my afternoons in Golden Gate Park right up until I had kids.  At that point I needed an extra couple of hundred thousand dollars.  And that reality sure changed everything.  Well except the afternoons in Golden Gate Park, but I did have to switch from hanging out at Hippie Hill and playing Frisbee to the kiddie playground.

But in any relationship there are two people, and often in the discussions 'round these parts we hear only one side of the story and strongly support only one side.  But the reality is this: the wife is the one who is going to be stuck being a single parent, the burden of supporting the kids is going to land completely on her, and I'm sure this is not what she wanted or envisioned her life as being.

Everyone says in that pre-divorce deal that they are going to be a major part of their children's lives, but the reality is often much different.

I don't have much to offer, perhaps just a few things to think about...

Once a relationship has reached the point of ultimatums and threats of divorce, how likely is it to truly survive and become whole again? Many couples have made it back from the D word, but I think it will take a lot of work, compromise and understanding on both your parts to make your marriage into something stable once again. Are you prepared to do that? Do you trust she will do that?

And Tekla's correct. You already face an uphill battle being a part of your children's lives as a boy. Sorry, but it's true. The laws are skewed in your wife's favor. Adding an alternative lifestyle to the equation certainly isn't going to help.

QuoteBut the reality is this: the wife is the one who is going to be stuck being a single parent, the burden of supporting the kids is going to land completely on her, and I'm sure this is not what she wanted or envisioned her life as being.

Everyone says in that pre-divorce deal that they are going to be a major part of their children's lives, but the reality is often much different.

QuoteAnd Tekla's correct. You already face an uphill battle being a part of your children's lives as a boy. Sorry, but it's true. The laws are skewed in your wife's favor. Adding an alternative lifestyle to the equation certainly isn't going to help.

Reality is that both parents can decide the fate of their children and custody.  Problem comes in when one is being selfish or vindictive.  There is no reason why 50:50 custody can't work, there is no reason why parents can't put the kids first and make a divorce as pleasant as possible for all involved.  At the time of my divorce I would have rather launched my ex off a cliff, but I have two kids who love him and that alone was reason to be the bigger person and slap a smile on my face, tell him I still loved him, tell him that I had no regrets about the relationship, and to PUT MY KIDS FIRST.    We were the ones that decided 50:50 custody would be our arrangement and we've made it work.  I help my kids buy gifts for him, we talk about him in a positive light, etc.

It's when people need to be right, who need to prove they are right, who need to punish their partner... that is when things get messed up and the courts end up deciding the fate of your kids.

I've arranged my schedule to make this work.  My schedule sucks.  I can have no real social life.  BUT, my kids will only be kids for a short while, so it's worth it to ME to do it this way.

Jay

*hugs*

That really is a tough choice to have to make... either way the end result will probably cause some unhappiness. I've been there and I know how it feels, but you have to be strong and let your wife know how you feel. Let her know that this is not something that will just go away. On the same note you need to have some understanding, yourself. If your wife is straight It might be hard for her to imagine the idea of being with another woman. In any case I hope things work out for you and wish you luck.

Quote from: sneakersjay on February 25, 2010, 08:21:02 AM

Reality is that both parents can decide the fate of their children and custody.  Problem comes in when one is being selfish or vindictive.  There is no reason why 50:50 custody can't work, there is no reason why parents can't put the kids first and make a divorce as pleasant as possible for all involved.  At the time of my divorce I would have rather launched my ex off a cliff, but I have two kids who love him and that alone was reason to be the bigger person and slap a smile on my face, tell him I still loved him, tell him that I had no regrets about the relationship, and to PUT MY KIDS FIRST.    We were the ones that decided 50:50 custody would be our arrangement and we've made it work.  I help my kids buy gifts for him, we talk about him in a positive light, etc.

It's when people need to be right, who need to prove they are right, who need to punish their partner... that is when things get messed up and the courts end up deciding the fate of your kids.

I've arranged my schedule to make this work.  My schedule sucks.  I can have no real social life.  BUT, my kids will only be kids for a short while, so it's worth it to ME to do it this way.

Jay

I'm in pretty much this exact situation. My ex and I have 50:50 custody of the kids, and we've been making it work peacefully (for the most part, but even our minor squabbles are really not so bad, and we keep the kids out of them) for over 3 years now. In my situation, my ex and my kids don't know that I'm trans yet, but in Jay's situation they do (IIRC). Just saying that there are a few different perspectives here, and it doesn't always *have* to end in disaster.

Nevertheless, this is a difficult time for you, and a difficult decision to make. I know that I'm struggling right now with the decision of coming out to my kids (mostly because of how I'm worried their dad will take it, not as much how they'll take it), and it's true that although it's hard to repress ourselves for any reason, the well-being of our kids is the one thing that is worth it.

I'm not saying repress yourself forever, because I definitely agree with you that at some point, your bottled identity and the struggle you have with it, might make you less able to be there for them as a parent. There comes a time when you have to step up to the plate and make yourself more healthy and whole for their sakes, but as most people here are commenting, you need to be 100% completely and fully ready to do that. Financially, job security, living arrangements, emotionally, in every way possible.

It's not easy being half out of the closet while the door is still holding you back, I know firsthand, but if preparing yourself and coming out little at a time can make it any easier on your children (and on yourself as an added benefit), then isn't it worth being slow and careful? Also, once you know that you eventually WILL come out, it makes it a little easier (in some ways) to be patient, because at least you have a goal to work towards. And then those steps along the way aren't stumbling blocks in your path, they're important checkpoints towards your ultimate goal.

*hug*

I won't try to feign understanding as I do not have children yet, though I'll offer what little I can in advice.

Is your wife opposed to transition entirely or is there a way to compromise until your children are raised?  Such as, completing all the nonsurgical parts of transition (including HRT, voice, facial hair removal, androgynous gender role) until your children are raised to go full-time, meanwhile being socially female when out of the house?  Also during the years perhaps your wife would incrementally be acclimated to it all; maybe part of her stance now is based in fear of the unknown, and given time she may realize it's not so awful.  Of course I may be completely off-base with this, so just ignore me if that's so.

I think keywords are "take it slowly and never give up" because people get used to it. This is also for wife, children, family and friends.

For me this has been a very smooth ride and both my wife and my 8yo daughter loves me for who I am and not for whom I pretended to be. For my daughter I'm still "daddy" and always will be no matter if daddy is female or male because the way I see it I'm still her daddy even though I've been FT for soon 3 years.

Sure it was many "huuu??" to start with but as said, they got used to it and now the days are nothing else then normal days.

Also my friend said before "my wife would never accept it" but after a while she's OK with her husband being female. That's life because true love is more then just sex.