Quote from: xsocialworker on February 24, 2010, 06:41:18 PM

I know at least 3 people who had vaginoplasty and for various reasons, it closed up. Are they dudes again?

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Post Merge: February 24, 2010, 06:46:53 PM

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Two more points.

1) Nobody actually posted their results and experiences after having GRS without vaginoplasty.

Yes, and more importantly the woman who is requesting this surgery has not spoken here either.  This started out as a "friend of a friend" posting.  We can only speculate as to her reasoning behind the surgery. 

I think this topic is very intriguing and worth discussing.  As to whether she is a transsexual, that is for her to decide.  If she wants to call herself woman, trans, gender-variant... that's her call.  And as someone who is sympathetic towards other transgendered individuals, I would (more than likely) respect her wishes.

But, this person has not stepped forward and said what their motivations are exactly.  I for one, would welcome her personal explanation, if anything so I can understand it better.  I have to admit I am a tad baffled and hadn't remotely entertained this solution in my path of womanhood. 

1) Five years ago, GRS without vaginoplasty was about half the price of full GRS. That would be $10,000 compared to $25,000. and certainly then, next to no health "care" plans covered any of this.
2) In most states, one could change gender markers with the simpler proceedure. I knew of one person who wanted this so she could reside with her children in a women only housing facility. There is a lot more to this, but being at that time so much less expensive , it was an option in preventing the state from taking her children.
3) Holly Boswell, a former writer for Tapestry had a good piece on the health reasons of transitioning without changing one's body.
4) In the Seventies, even being post-op with a vagina could not get one into most feminist organizations.
5) about five years ago, some doctors would not perform GRS on people over 48.
6) I claim I am post-op , but maybe not. Maybe I have had only an orchie, or simpler GRS, or maybe nothing. Does it matter? I'm still a crazy Democrat and politics is in the heart and between the ears. Would this knowledge change my online persona?
7) Western culture associates women with a full head of hair. What does wearing a wig mean if you are post-op? Confusing, isn't it?

For a moment I thought it said "GRS w/out Virginia" and was about to get a bit huffy 

Why leave me out? 

But then I realized I was mistaken... For who? I'm not sure 

Anyway... Carry on

Quote from: Virginia Marie on February 24, 2010, 08:12:51 PM
For a moment I thought it said "GRS w/out Virginia" and was about to get a bit huffy 

Why leave me out? 

But then I realized I was mistaken... For who? I'm not sure 

Anyway... Carry on

Nothing would be complete without you Virginia. You rock!

There are health reason that would warrant not going for the whole thing.  I just pray that isn't me.

Even as a lesbian identified trans woman, I couldn't imagine not having a full vagina. Sure, I doubt any man will even insert himself into it, but you don't need to be into men to have use for a vagina. I guess I would just not feel comfortable not having fully functional parts, just wouldn't seem right. But that is just my opinion.

Kat

Veddy intersting. No one seems to have enunciated  any reason for the discussed proceedure and it seems that the consensus is that doing nothing is better to GRS without vaginoplasty------so why do you all think surgeons even offer it? Somebody must be buying. Why is it even a topic? In fact, it would appear that doing this is a cop out based on this group. Kinda like a base on balls.

it's an option for people, not everyone can or wants to go all the way (surgery wise). I go my way, others down their own trail. I don't think there is a point in judging others for the decisions based on their life. (since I have enough fun in my own as is to put others under scrutiny)

Quote from: JennyJ on February 25, 2010, 08:32:50 PM
Genetic Women don't have vaginas that close over, we have to maintain them.

Point of order - as someone who has a vagina, is now over 26 years past my original surgery, and as I've pointed out elsewhere, I will assure you that after a couple of years postop the danger of "closing over" largely disappears. I certainly do not have to "maintain" it, although I do have regular penetrative sex.

A surgeon I know feels it is safer for those over 60 who have concurrent medical issues. In Florida, there are lots of late life transitioners as well as a lot of late life everything including 94 years olds driving. As one gets older, often one wants to minimize stress to the body. Also, those transitioning over 60 are used to a life of compromise, so their expectations might be lower. In the group I facilitated for six years, only two people were able to afford GRS of any kind. I have only the highest respect for those who knew their own hearts and had the info, the courage, the money, and the support system to realize their dream before late middle-age. I try not to inject my own situation into this, but I went full-time years before I could afford GRS and I used female locker rooms years before surgery. I do not see surgery as the great divide . I am sure there are those who absolutely disagree and that is their right. If our community sets up a litmus test for being authentic, then we are acting just like the Michigan Womyns Festival who would not let any transwoman in because she was not born with a womb, but now will admit post-ops after years of protests.

I agree that surgery is not the great divide.  There are many who can't have surgery for any number of reasons.  There are those who don't want it for any number of reasons.  (I know of two FTMs who are legally married because one has had surgery and the other not.)

And I really don't think a vagina makes one a woman.  The federal and state governments won't change my gender marker while I still have testicles (regardless of the fact they don't function any more), but we're talking about who we are – not what is in our pants.

I'm pre-op and may feel differently after surgery, but since only a select few get to see my genitals and since I have not a single doubt in my mind that I am a woman, I don't see surgery or the extent of surgery as crucial.

Most of us have lived our lives in a box constructed by society and our own interpretation of society's expectations.  We are freeing ourselves.  Let us be open to others freeing themselves as they see fit.

- Kate

There are many ggs who go through similar issues of not having or not being able to use their vaginas-

QuoteVaginal Agenesis
Vaginal agenesis is primarily a physical abnormality of the vagina which, for some reason, stops developing. It is a birth defect or congenital disorder which technically is called the Mayer-Rokitansky-Kuster-Hauser Syndrome. Typically sufferers have a short vagina of maybe 3.5cm or 1.5" in length, but there might be no vagina at all.

QuoteVaginismus & Dyspareunia
Vaginismus is a distressing condition for both the male and female partners in a relationship. It occurs when involuntary spasms within the woman's pelvic muscles make penetration either very painful or maybe even impossible. However, it is not a result of any genital abnormality nor does it indicate a lack of libido or sexual attraction. Dyspareunia, which is sometimes confused with vaginismus, is pain during or after sexual intercourse. Affecting both men and women, such pains are relatively common particularly in menopausal women.

Both of these conditions require dilation in order to have a fully functioning vagina and of course there are those who choose not to dilate.

Well the penile inversion technique does not fit all and it's fully possible to have penectomy without vaginoplasty and SRS without a "huge dept".

Therefore a small vaginal canal is a good choice for whom are older and don't aim for sex anyway (also because they are happily married).

Me for one will have SRS with no more then 1 1/2 to 2 inches vaginal canal just to make it look as the "real thing" as possible. Because I will not use the penile inversion technique the outcome is far better as well as the op can be made right at the first time (without complications [I hope]) as the surgeon can focus on look instead of creating max dept and width. 

I have thought long and hard over the years about having the cosmetic op with no vaginal depth.  This would let me pass in changing rooms etc as I do not envisage having a male partner.  My only reservation is if a some point in the future I was attracted to a man and needed a vagina for intercourse then it would not be possible. 

Susan

Quote from: Susan Dundee on February 27, 2010, 01:49:35 PM
I have thought long and hard over the years about having the cosmetic op with no vaginal depth.  This would let me pass in changing rooms etc as I do not envisage having a male partner.  My only reservation is if a some point in the future I was attracted to a man and needed a vagina for intercourse then it would not be possible. 

Susan

I thought about the same, but lesbinating demands a vajayjay for certain activities, so I figured might as well keep my options open.

A cosmetic grs sounds like a perfect thing for me!  I was originaly planning an orchi but this would look a lot better. An orchi or cosmetic grs will help me take less medications.
I am 53 and happily married to my wife and have no plans at all to have sex with men.
The other reason for an orchi is to have a flatter appearence "down there", but a cosmetic will do this even better!

I agree, I've always thought that would be good enough for me and maybe an easier and shorter recovery time?

Quote from: Michelle G on September 10, 2015, 12:58:09 AM
I agree, I've always thought that would be good enough for me and maybe an easier and shorter recovery time?

yes it would be shorter recovery, dont think it requires dilation either

Hi All,

I just wanted to say, if this type of operation allows a woman to feel more at one with herself, I think it's a great idea.  If and when I ever get to that point, the more options the better.  The transgender community is all over the map, why should choice of operations be any different?

Also a question very off topic, but I've never noticed it before this thread.  Quite a few posters don't seem to have any statistics or anything under their name.  Is this something new or have I not been paying attention.

Take care everyone,
Paige

Quote from: Paige on September 10, 2015, 10:13:17 AM
Hi All,

I just wanted to say, if this type of operation allows a woman to feel more at one with herself, I think it's a great idea.  If and when I ever get to that point, the more options the better.  The transgender community is all over the map, why should choice of operations be any different?

Also a question very off topic, but I've never noticed it before this thread.  Quite a few posters don't seem to have any statistics or anything under their name.  Is this something new or have I not been paying attention.

Take care everyone,
Paige

must have been data lost in a server migration, i thought they were dead accounts, but jenny is still active