http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transsexual

Quote
trans·sex·u·al
   /trænsˈsɛkʃuəl/ Show Spelled[trans-sek-shoo-uhl] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person having a strong desire to assume the physical characteristics and gender role of the opposite sex.
2.
a person who has undergone hormone treatment and surgery to attain the physical characteristics of the opposite sex.
–adjective
3.
of, pertaining to, or characteristic of transsexuals.
Use transsexual in a Sentence
See images of transsexual
Search transsexual on the Web
Origin:
1955–60; trans- + sexual, orig. in transsexualism (coined in 1953)

—Related forms
trans·sex·u·al·ism, trans·sex·u·al·i·ty, noun

Ok I'm curious to know who actually thinks this sounds correct?

Personally I'm a little bothered by the word 'desire' and 'assume'

oh wait there's more!!!....

Quotetrans·sex·u·al    (trāns-sěk'shōō-əl)   
n. 

   1.

      One who wishes to be considered by society as a member of the opposite sex.
   2.

      One who has undergone a sex change.

trans·sex'u·al adj., trans·sex'u·al·ism, trans·sex'u·al'i·ty (-āl'ĭ-tē) n.

This time they choose to use the word 'wishes', "wishes to be considered", like I need someone else's approval to be me???.

Wow and this is no doubt what people read the most, when trying to learn about us.

So me being pre-op I'm not a transsexual? Then what am I? Ok now I think I just have -identity dysphoria... I don't know who or what I am!!!! *sarcasm*.

So (in their eyes) a transsexual is someone who wishes or desires to be a member of the opposite sex?

I personally don't find the word desire to be true at all, I just want to live a normal functioning life and this is the only way I can do so, I am what I am there was no desire involved at all.

I don't agree with this and personally I find it damaging and insulting. *folds arms* hhmmffff.

---------

P.s.

This is taken from the dictionary definition of the word 'assume'...

Quote...
6. to pretend to have or be; feign: to assume a humble manner.
...

.........*speechless*..........

Obviously, the dictionary is not written by a trans person or someone who truly understands trans people

A dictionary does not live, breath or feel... It just spews the opinions, thoughts and beliefs of other people who are also trying to understand many things

After we're all dead and gone for several years... Someone will find a dictionary and make some bizarre religion based on it

May I ask what language you would prefer? If it's a better definition, why not send it to them and offer it as a friendly suggestion? Perhaps we, here, can come up with something together and offer it as suggestion "from the community".

Maybe something like

QuoteA person who identifies with the physical characteristics and gender role of the opposite sex

I'm not sure that "identifies with the physical characteristics" is really accurate though. I know at least in my case, my dysphoria is largely driven by the fact that I'm consciously aware I don't have those physical characteristics. And I feel that I ought to, and yes, I "desire to assume them." But I don't "identify with" them, except in my dreams...

And I do "wish to be considered" by society as a male - while that definition doesn't wholly encompass my situation, it's not at all inaccurate, just incomplete.

Basically, being transsexual seems to have a number of distinct elements, which we as individuals experience in varying strengths and with varying ages of onset:
(1) identifying (mentally/emotionally) as the sex other than the one we were assigned.
(2) wanting our bodies to be the sex we identify as.
(3) wanting to be seen by others as the sex we identify as.

I think the definitions do a decent job of capturing (2) and (3), and the main issue is that they leave out (1), which is viewed by most of us as the root cause of the others.

I like the sounds of that, is it even possible? First dictionary.reference then wiki mmwwahaha oh and then the world? Wait that could be a bit ambitious. >_<

I'm shocking with words but I like your suggestion Jasmine.. but I feel it draws attention to the physical when it's more of the mind, the gender. The 'gender roles' I think could encapsulate the physical side of it enough?

Words have many meanings not all apply to each use of that word.

oh ...ok Lisa well... can you break down this sentence and tell me how I should be interpreting it?? Please. *still baffled*.

Quote
a person having a strong desire to assume the physical characteristics and gender role of the opposite sex.

I really don't have a problem with the definition.  Could it be better?  Yeah.  From the same reference, the words "desire" and assume":

Quote
de·sire
   /dɪˈzaɪər/ Show Spelled [dih-zahyuhr] Show IPA verb,-sired, -sir·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.
to wish or long for; crave; want.
2.
to express a wish to obtain; ask for; request: The mayor desires your presence at the next meeting.
–noun
3.
a longing or craving, as for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment: a desire for fame.
4.
an expressed wish; request.
5.
something desired.
6.
sexual appetite or a sexual urge.

Quote
as·sume
   /əˈsum/ Show Spelled [uh-soom] Show IPA verb,-sumed, -sum·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.
to take for granted or without proof; suppose; postulate; posit: to assume that everyone wants peace.
2.
to take upon oneself; undertake: to assume an obligation.
3.
to take over the duties or responsibilities of: to assume the office of treasurer.
4.
to take on (a particular character, quality, mode of life, etc.); adopt: He assumed the style of an aggressive go-getter.
5.
to take on; be invested or endowed with: The situation assumed a threatening character.
6.
to pretend to have or be; feign: to assume a humble manner.
7.
to appropriate or arrogate; seize; usurp: to assume a right to oneself; to assume control.
8.
to take upon oneself (the debts or obligations of another).
9.
Archaic. to take into relation or association; adopt.
–verb (used without object)
10.
to take something for granted; presume.

In the definition of "transsexual" as provided, the word "desire" is used as a noun.  I'm not sure how "a longing or craving", "an expressed wish; request", or "something desired" is offensive.  Sexual desire is not the only type of desire as evidenced by your provided reference.

The word "assume" is used as a verb with the nouns being "characteristics" and "role".  In the English language, words have multiple meanings.  In this context, the definition "to take on (a particular character, quality, mode of life, etc.); adopt" would probably be most appropriate.  I also don't see how this is offensive.

well.................. I just wish the majority of people saw things the way you do, but I can't hold that same confidence.

If it's baffling for me and the words 'desire' and 'assume' draw me to wrongful conclusions then how is the average new comer going to view it? Is it just me??

To me the bottom line is they have the opportunity to word it a number of ways, why this way that you must admit (obviously) can cause misunderstanding. :S

Even trans people have definitions that I don't agree with, but at least those people don't have the authority of the dictionary behind them.

I was at a meeting the other day, and one of the people talked about all of the people in the room who have changed gender. If s/he had just been talking about him/herself, I wouldn't have minded. We all have our own take on things. But s/he was talking about me, among others. Uh, no, my gender is the same as always.

It's unfortunate that the dictionary.com definition says nothing about gender, but even that differentiation between sex and gender can be mighty problematic.

dictionary.com has this to say about the word gender:

QuoteUsage Note: Traditionally, gender has been used primarily to refer to the grammatical categories of "masculine," "feminine," and "neuter," but in recent years the word has become well established in its use to refer to sex-based categories, as in phrases such as gender gap and the politics of gender. This usage is supported by the practice of many anthropologists, who reserve sex for reference to biological categories, while using gender to refer to social or cultural categories. According to this rule, one would say The effectiveness of the medication appears to depend on the sex (not gender) of the patient, but In peasant societies, gender (not sex) roles are likely to be more clearly defined. This distinction is useful in principle, but it is by no means widely observed, and considerable variation in usage occurs at all levels.

Which basically means that other than being a grammatical category, your guess is as good as ours what gender means. In the offending definitions for transsexual, it is implied that our sense of gender is subjective rather than objective, which fits in with the usage note. If we claim to be one gender when our bodies might indicate otherwise, then without definitive physical evidence that our brains are actually wired differently, I don't see the word definition police climbing over themselves to change that implication much.

Quote from: Muffin on March 02, 2010, 08:03:54 PM
oh ...ok Lisa well... can you break down this sentence and tell me how I should be interpreting it?? Please. *still baffled*.

That applies to preops. Desire turns to reality after the fact. The in between stage is awkward. That is why they call it transition.

---

Post Merge: March 03, 2010, 08:15:42 AM

---

The physical reality is what people see. Language has to confirm and relate physical reality to the receiver.