i said maybe, because i don't necessarily think they have it easier, but i also wouldn't say that they have it just the same. in some cases i don't view androgynes as someone changing gender, but rather someone who chooses not to claim a male or female gender, because they just don't see the need to, but then in other situations i think maybe they are changing gender in a way, because you don't necessarily have to be male or female to have a gender. androgynes seem to be relatively content with most parts of their gender, so they don't really make as many changes as someone going from male to female or female to male, but this is something that may make most people wonder.

Quote from: NicoleFoxFan on March 01, 2010, 07:20:36 PM
but rather someone who chooses not to claim a male or female gender

Some of us claim both genders   

Quote from: ativan on March 01, 2010, 11:03:55 PM
  In a lot of ways I don't really feel worthy to belong.

Lovely post like that, course your worthy, if any of us are worthy - I feel we're more like a refugee camp or shanty town - the worthy people only come for anthropological study.

One of my loved ones confronted me with a 360.  Then we played Halo.

Quote from: NicoleFoxFan on March 01, 2010, 07:20:36 PM
i don't view androgynes as someone changing gender, but rather someone who chooses not to claim a male or female gender, because they just don't see the need to,

Personally I don't think a 'gender' can be claimed. What 'gender' someone indentifies as, yes, what 'gender' someone presents as, yes. Also, it's more of a 'it doesn't make sense to' than a 'don't see a need to' imho.

Quotebut then in other situations i think maybe they are changing gender in a way, because you don't necessarily have to be male or female to have a gender.

I think you mean 'sex' here. Technically people don't change gender, they change sex (although some along the road might identify as a different gender).

Quoteandrogynes seem to be relatively content with most parts of their gender, so they don't really make as many changes as someone going from male to female or female to male, but this is something that may make most people wonder.

There's quite a few different androgynes on the playground and some of them choose to go through the same transitional process as TS (variations included). Unfortunately for those who wish to 'nullify' themselves there is currently no treatment provided which restricts many possible 'changes'.

Quote from: ativanWhich is easier? I dunno. Which is harder? I'm not sure it really matters. Its hard at some point, for some time ,for anyone here, isn't it?

I think that deserves a 'bingo'.

I don't know which is easier in terms of everyday or transition experience. But as someone just starting to muddle through this binary problem, I think that androgyny is hella confusing.

If I wanted a male body/identity I'd have plenty of examples on how to dress, how to act, and how to shape and use my body. Even though it may not be easy to get there, I'd have a good idea where I was going. But if I want an andro body and I'm trying to figure out how to get to that place, I have to patch together my measuring tape at the same time I'm holding it up to myself.

Quote from: ativan on March 01, 2010, 11:03:55 PM
   The mental distance from one side of binary to the other, Where Am I??? It's hard.

This. For me, trying to build something between the poles is exciting, but the ambiguity also opens up a lot of opportunity for self-doubt. Somehow I'm under the impression that if I were uncomplicatedly (ha) TS, I would feel more certain about myself.

Quote from: tole on March 06, 2010, 10:30:47 AM
I don't know which is easier in terms of everyday or transition experience. But as someone just starting to muddle through this binary problem, I think that androgyny is hella confusing.

Welcome to the club It is confusing being an androgyne. Most of us just make our own reality since everyone else's doesn't seem to fit too well.

I like that, I've always felt I'm pretty much making it up as I go.

fake it till you make it

Y'all have your easy and hard bits, we have ours.  I don't think it would be easier to be androgynous in this world, but it may not necessarily be harder either.

I think it's probably easier for your family to accept, but harder for society at large- not that it's easy for either of us on either of those counts.  Pick your poison I guess as to which is worse.

Quote from: nathan on March 03, 2010, 09:56:26 PM
One of my loved ones confronted me with a 360.  Then we played Halo.

i wonder if anyone else got that.

Quote from: NicoleFoxFan on March 07, 2010, 11:07:57 AM
i wonder if anyone else got that.

I did, but didn't really think it was funny.

Quote from: tekla on March 06, 2010, 10:33:09 PM
I like that, I've always felt I'm pretty much making it up as I go.

wouldn't want it any other way

Quote from: SilverFang on March 07, 2010, 01:04:07 PM
I did, but didn't really think it was funny.

I thought it was pretty funny. The game reference by itself was okay, but when you factor in that a circle is 360 degrees and a halo is a circle, and then add in the game reference...well, it's not bad word play, taken all together.

Hi...
  & thats why we keeped our mouths shut  50 years ago at age 10. or get taken away to the nut house . by the men in white suits ,
There are no pointers a long the way for us we are on our own there fore we have to be strong mentaly or we lose it. & still get to the nut house .
   so it took that long to know what was going to happen so yes to the ?  of,    is it harder for us who are andros & yes we are in no mans land not really knowing . are we one or the other .
Now of cause i know for sure with out any doughts as to who i am , & yes its great once you know because then you can really live.
      what is easyer is ,  you can live as a woman or male & still know who you are . & for me knowing i have a some what male back ground that is still me yet can embrace my womans side ,   knowing who you are .  not so much what you are , yet can be accepted for who you are .
  & those of you who are unsure still ,   dont give up . it took me 50 years to know what i was doing & then  8 more years to see who i was ,  & now at 62 live as to who i am with out any concerns as to why i am the way i am . & can live life to its fullest & be accepted as a woman with that male back ground .

,& that, is what is so neat,

...noeleena...

Quote from: riven1 on March 06, 2010, 10:16:48 PM
Most of us just make our own reality since everyone else's doesn't seem to fit too well.

Quote from: tekla on March 06, 2010, 10:33:09 PM
I like that, I've always felt I'm pretty much making it up as I go.

So on the plus side then, there's no wrong way. I'd buy that.

I have to say maybe. Society will always attempt to put people into binary catagories that may work better to TSes that pass but, when they don't people can just be exceptionally cruel to them. It seems with androgynes many people would simply make judgements as to your gender and not think twice, perhaps a "that is a feminine man/ masculine woman" and that might not be so difficult... However, getting closer to people does seem a bit more difficult, as almost everyone has heard of a TS while many haven't even considered the possibility of "something else".

Truth be told, no one can really make a decision over what is more or less difficult. It might sound cliché but, the truth is I can only live my own life, therefore I lack a valid reference point to judge such things. It has been a stimulation conversation though, very insightful to see how people view their own struggles in the context of the greater community.