New here, so sorry if I don't know how to address anyone here. I also apologize if nobody can understand what I'm saying right now, I'm running on maybe 4 hours of sleep, plus being awake for 20 hours straight. Soo... Yeah. I may be a little loopy. Haha. For starters, let's just call me Robin. Androgynous enough methinks. Or you can call me Tess. Either works for me. Next, I love to talk, so I apologize ahead of time if I end up typing out an essay for you guys. Dunno why, but it usually happens on any forum I go to. I am 20 years old, crossdress, and am straight. I think that covers it all.

Anyway, so I've really become set on going MTF but I have my worries, like everyone else did I'm sure. First off is the cost. I've read it costs "a lot of money", yet never could get an estimate. I'm definitely willing to save up for it, no matter the cost. ... Okay, if it's like 100 grand, then maybe not so much. I may get a loan if I'm something close to finish the cost, but yeah. So how much does each part of the surgery/laser hair removal/prescription medicine cost?

Second is the surgery itself. Is there a list or a single doctor that I can go to that are experts in neural-surgery? I'd like to be a complete female, minus the DNA of course. I know that there's a chance I lose all ability to orgasm, but I'm willing to take the risk. Besides, does that affect the prostate anyway? I didn't quite get much info on this topic itself.

Third is.. Uh. I forget. Curse my lack of sleep. Oh yeah. The voice. It's not enough to just have the body, the voice can and usually ruins everything if you don't have it. There are two parts to this one:
1) I know there are ways to have a feminine voice, but roughly how long does it take on average for someone who has no vocal training (school choir for a year or two about 6 years ago doesn't count does it?), take to make a decent but not perfectly passable voice and
2) I've read up on this a lot already, but I haven't seen many examples on it.. When you use your feminine voice, you're messing with your vocal cords in a certain way. However, what would happen if you were to accidentally mess that up? Like sneezing, coughing, or clearing your throat? Will that sound male or female? Oh and also.. Any tips on how to get started on the voice right now, before I go out and seek professional help from someone or buy a CD or what have you? This I'd like to get out of the way ASAP. Even if I choose to stay a guy, I think I could actually have fun manipulating my voice like this. (Yes, I am a horrible, horrible person. *joking*)

Fourth, is the order to do things in. I think the order (from what I've read) is to go voice, laser hair removal, medication, operation. I may have missed a few steps in there so please let me know. I think this is right though, it goes from non-permanent to final-no-going-back stage and from least to most risk of permanent damage to the body. Should I ever turn back, when is the latest I can turn back before I mess something up? Please include any steps I missed.

Lastly is coming out. Blech. Already a crossdresser, but the only person who knows about it is my brother and he found out because he likes to walk into my room unannounced. Little prick. Heh. Anyway, I've had a conversation about wanting to be a girl with my girlfriend in the past, but it was casual. ... For her. I was sorta being serious, but I dunno. I'm sure she'll support me along the way and tell me to do what makes me happy, but I'm afraid that my parents won't be so understanding. HOWEVER... In the past I had been caught with girl's clothes in my room before, so I think it may soften the blow. Unfortunately, my gf doesn't know about my crossdressing. A little weird when I look at it; talking to her about ->-bleeped-<-, but not about crossdressing. My friends know NOTHING about any of this. This should be ooldes of fun.. --- That's the entire scenario as far as I can tell. So how should I tell my parents/gf? My plan was to tell them about my crossdressing and want to be a girl now, at the same time, but I have a bad feeling that's going about it the wrong way. Should I tell them about crossdressing now and wait until after they let it sink in to tell them about wanting to be a girl? I think this is the hardest part for me. And then the money.

And here's something for you guys to chew on, just for the fun of it: Does a transgendered woman loving another woman make them a lesbian and vise-versa for males? Considering the original gender and all.

TL;DR- ... Uh. I don't think I can sum all of that up into something short so... Too bad. Read it anyway.

~Tess

PS: Uh.. Crud. Brain fart. I had this planned out already too.. Neh. I'll just edit it in when I remember. If I can.

Welcome to Susan's, Tess. 

Be sure to look under the Announcements heading.  There you will find the rules we live by in this little world of ours: "Site Terms of Service and Rules to Live By", "Standard Terms and Definitions", and "Post Ranks".  Look through the other stuff there, too.

You will find the answers to your questions in various places in the forum, so look around, ask questions, explore.

I'll give you the answers that I know (or think I know ), but a lot depends on you and where you live and your situation, etc.

My medications are covered by insurance but hair removal and GRS are not.  You could probably get them both (hair removal and GRS) for $25K, although it may be more depending.

There is a list of doctors here on the site somewhere.  (I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet, so I'll let you look around for it.)

There is voice surgery, but it can be iffy.  Better is voice training and practice.  I consulted a voice coach and then practiced.  Others have used various exercises.  Again, there are all sorts of threads on this here on Susan's.

The order of things depends on you.  I came out to everyone I could think of, started voice training, started hormones and three weeks later started living full time.  Standards of Care require at least one year of living full time in your target gender before surgery.  And that's full time 24/7, not sort-of full time.

For me, it was very important to let all my friends know what was happening before I did anything.  There are others on this site who have been on hormones for a year or more and are still in the closet.  I thought that would be too complicated for me.  Again, it is up to you.  However, coming out can be one of the most difficult parts of this process.  There are lots of threads on here about that, too.

Once you transition you are a woman.  There are plenty on this site who will argue that you always were a woman even though you had a male body.  Who you love and what your gender is aren't necessarily related.  And some of us shift who we are attracted to as the hormones do their work.  I don't think that should be a big concern for you at this point.

Now get some sleep and you can begin your journey when rested.  This is a long, complicated process – probably the most complicated and fun thing I've ever done in my life – so don't worry about it.  Just nibble away and do a little and see how that goes.  If it seems to suit you, take another nibble.

Happy exploring.

- Kate

tess, adding to what kate said, I recommend looking up a therapist who works with gender variant clients. transition isn't something to be taken lightly, and surgery isn't an on demand service. both have long reaching consequences.
https://www.susans.org/Health/Therapists_and_Counselors/

Quote from: K8 on March 16, 2010, 08:09:10 AM
There is a list of doctors here on the site somewhere.  (I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet, so I'll let you look around for it.)

Front page links, and in the wiki (a surgeon list page with google maps links to location of practice is a work in progress, for now the links are in the surgery info pages)

From my research the cost varies so wildly that it is really hard to pin down.

I read one story of a girl who did her own electrolysis and laser (apparently they sell home lasers on ebay) and decided she didn't need FFS and got good enough breast growth to where she decided not to get BA and she went to Thailand (Dr. Suporn I think) for SRS and it was like $15K.

And at the same time I have heard of a girl that did FFS with Dr. Ousterhout and SRS with Marci Bowers and got professional laser on her body and professional electrolysis and her total was something like $120K.

I think that you shouldn't let finances discourage you, if it is something that you decide you need; then despite the cliché: where there is a will there is a way.

Thank you guys for helping point the way. It seems I still have a bit more research to do but hopefully things won't go as badly as I feel they are. I have no problem accepting who I am, but it's everyone else I worry about. I can't let that get to me though, it will only mess with my head and make me second guess myself. Thanks for all the support guys, I really do appreciate it.

Hi Tess Many of us here have gone through the same questions and the same challenges, and Susan's is an excellent place to find information. Another good site that many of us have found helpful is TS Roadmap. Not much else to add to what Kate and the others have said, but I did want to address one of your questions-

Quote from: Tess on March 16, 2010, 07:44:47 AMAnd here's something for you guys to chew on, just for the fun of it: Does a transgendered woman loving another woman make them a lesbian and vise-versa for males? Considering the original gender and all.

A transgender woman loving another woman is the same as any other woman loving another woman, whatever label you want to put on it, or no label at all. Who you love is a very personal thing and is really nobody's business.

Best wishes in your journey to becoming who you are meant to be 

Tess:

One of the things you will learn is that gender identity and sexual orientation are two separate things.

Sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to.

Gender identity is about how you see yourself.

-Sandy

The thing to remember about the cost is that it's ongoing, you don't have to shell out $100k in the one hit. The only things that have to be paid up front are surgeries, and for most they are a fair way down the path.

Personally I pay for electrolysis when I can afford it ($150 for 3 hours), drugs are about $70 a month, therapy would be $175 a session (luckily in Australia it's bulk billed so we don't have to pay for it). You have clothes to think about as well but you don't have to go and buy an entire wardrobe at once. BA is going to be $6000 when I can afford it and SRS somewhere in the neighbourhood of $20000 but the point is that surgeries aside you should just treat it as day to day living expenses, nobody expects you to save up the entire budget before you can start transitioning - chances are you'd end up dipping into it for other purposes anyway if you're anything like me.

Just so you know, I had edited this message and typed it all up in Notepad because my IE is refusing to let the scroll bar for this text window scroll down. Therefore, there may be massive amounts of typos in here.

I'm thankful for all your support. The main complication right now is the whole being 20 and working at McDonalds. Better start saving up! The main priorities I guess I should have are getting a new car, since the old one is busted completely and I'm borrowing one of my parents cars, and paying rent/finding a place to live. I'm most likely going to stay with my parents and pay them rent for it, as this is going to help me save the most amount of money.

As for the vocal training, should I go see someone about that or would going online and buying a CD or something help? I'm currently looking online and seeing all these CDs and such, but I don't know if they'll really help or not.

My plan of action so far goes as follows:

1) Counciling, LOTS of it
2) Voice therapy, maybe not as much as the counciling
3) Laser hair removal, but I need to do more research for places in NY
4) Hormonal treatment and such
5) Surgery with Dr. Brassard or Dr. Bower. Looking to work on removing/adding/feminizing/what have you:
   a) Adam's apple
   b) Breast Augmentation
   c) Full facial feminization
   d+e) *Left blank for anything else of interest*

I think that should do it. It goes from least-most important (for me at least), expensive (maybe, with the counciling), and risk of permanent damage. Does this look good to you? My wallet and future funds are all going to die from this, I just know it.

Tess:

That seems like a good plan of action.  However one thing you have left out and it is a big one, is coming out of the closet.

At some point you will have to tell the world about your decision to change.  Sooner or later it will become obvious and people will begin to talk.  Remember that this is a change not only for yourself, but also everyone around you.  And many, if not most, will feel blindsided by your revelation.

Then, also, is changing your name/gender on all your documents.  That too will take a fair amount of effort.  I am unfamiliar with the laws of NY state, so I don't know what sort of hoops you'll have to go through to change your birth certificate and the extent that you'll be able to change it.

When you go for counselling, be sure to find a therapist who is trained in gender therapy.  They will be able to give you guidance for the things you'll have to do and the things you'll have to watch out for.

And don't worry too much about the typo's.  There are many here that do not speak english as their primary language and have a bit of a struggle trying to express themselves.  We aren't so much worried about grammar as we are about you being able to express yourself.  You're doing fine.

-Sandy

Tess,
You're getting a lot of good advice here.  As Sally said, this isn't something you have to pay for all at once.  This can take years and for most things you pay as you go.

Your plan sounds good, although as Sandy said: Don't forget about coming out.  That's a whole process in itself.

I think we all tend to look at this as a mountain to climb - a big task.  But it is a gradual process.  It may help you to look at what you want to do now to make you comfortable and feel like you are making progress.  Then when you do that, look at what else you can do.  Every journey is made one step at a time.

And BTW: When I type long posts I do it in Microsoft Word and cut and paste into the box.  The scrolly stuff drives me crazy and no telling what gibberish will come out.

One step at a time, dear.

- Kate

Haha, thanks guys. I actually thought of putting down coming out, but that was pretty obvious. Or so I think. Anyway, I couldn't sleep at all last night because I kept thinking about all of this and tried to plan how I was going to tell my parents about it.

My plan is to do it on a weekend where I have the next two or three days off and tell them at about noonish, when they're both awake and active. I'm going to bring them outside, so if they scream or something, then it won't bother anyone else inside. I'm trying to get it on a decent day so that we actually can go outside. I think my only issue is that I'm going to try to hold back and try to hide a few details or something unintentionally. I want to tell them everything, and I guess I better prepare for anything when I tell them. My guess is that they'll be shocked.. But then again maybe not so much. They have found girl's clothes in my room in the past and was told of it from someone else in a different scenario. If that makes sense. So maybe they won't freak out, but the question I fear is "Why?", and that is what I'm working on right now.

I'm currently on break and I can't get it off my mind, so it's stressing me out. Oh well, at least I have a plan for all of this. I just hope for the best I guess.

Good planning is always a plus, but don't forget that "The best laid plans..."  Be flexible.

Also they may NOT want to know *everything*.  At least not all at once.

Put yourself in their shoes.  To them, they may have no clue about what you are telling them.  They may feel blindsided.  They will quite probably think (hope) that you are gay and this is just a manifestation of that.  Or that you may grow out of it and regret any irreversible decision.  And more than likely they will confuse gender identity with sexual orientation so there may be a bit of explanation and background to cover.

And prepare for having to say this again and again to others that you come out to.  After a while it can become tedious, but necessary.

Best of luck!

-Sandy

Hm. I didn't think of that. Guess I better be a little easy on all the details, and only tell what's necessary. My plan for coming out would just be parents, gf, then one of my close friends who is living in the same house (sorta), and then my friends. Not sure how to go about telling any of my friends, but I'll work it out.

So I'll try to go slow with the process, but I have a feeling that getting a house or apartment is definitely on the list of things to do. Apparently there's a house near mine for about 60k, and has 5 bedrooms and 2 and a half baths. This is also a two story house, so I think that my knowledge of the price is wrong. I guess I'll have to have my mom double check the price when she goes by or something. Maybe if I rent out 3 of the 5 rooms, I can get most of the monthly payments just from their rent and save the rest of the money.

Hi Tess
You have sooo much energy in your posts.  I love reading them, but do feel a little exhausted afterwards

You used the magic word finally, i've been waiting for it: slow.

Thats right, slow down.  You seem to be racing, rushing.  By all means make haste, but don't rush.  This is a long long road.  Take your time to learn, listen, gather as much knowledge as you can.  That way you can make informed decisions and good plans.  As previously stated those decisions will have consequences and affect those around you.  While you will need support and understanding, those closest to you will also need support and understanding and usually much more time.  You may want to think about doing some counselling before you tell those around you.  It may help to clarify your own thoughts.

Anyway good luck and welcome to this crazy ride....

Hugs
Shelly
xx

hi tess dont have much to add to what others have said so i just wanted to welcome you to susans

As Sandy and Shelly said, slow down a little.  Don't tell your parents all the details at the first session - just enough to get them to start thinking about it.

A couple of tips:  I used the word "transgendered" at first rather than "transsexual" to ease my friends and family into it.  I was ambivalent about how much I wanted to do or where this was ultimately going so they could start thinking of it as me searching for myself rather than immediately think of me lying on a table getting carved up.

You've been thinking about it a long time and finally decided to make the leap.  They haven't been thinking about it at all and are not ready for you to leap.  Give them time to catch up.

And good luck.

- Kate

Welcome to Susan's hun, I defo feel with you on telling your parental units...I'm dreading that mainly down to the fact she's a vicar! And she's the only person I know who refuses to call me by my chosen name.

I think taking things slowly is key, it's easy for things to just be about us and to forget that other people need time too. 

Huh. I didn't realize I was trying to go fast. I guess I do that naturally, and don't realize it. No wonder everyone tells me to "slow down" or to "just chill" at work. Though it seems to happen when I get a riled up. Better find a way to control that then. Haha.

Okay, I'll try to take it slow in every way possible but not too slowly. I think I'll set a goal to be completely done by the time I'm 23. That gives me 3 years to get everything done. Sounds reasonable to me, what about you guys?

Small question on the side, but a bit of detail first: There are times where I wake up in the morning and I look into my reflection from my PSP. When I look, I see myself androgynous, but later on I look in a mirror and don't see it at all. And there are times where I'm completely awake and see it again, but later on I can't see it anymore. Has that happened to anyone at all? I find it a bit confusing and a little upsetting, since I'd rather look androgynous instead of male.

I don't know what a PSP is, but it took a while before I saw a woman in the mirror looking back at me.  Even now she's not always there.  Dim lighting helps, as does taking my glasses off.

I admire your drive.  You can do this fairly quickly.  Just be careful not to get too far ahead of yourself.  Have you started counseling?  A counselor or therapist can be a big help in sorting all this out.

- Kate