Don't be mad at me, I really do try not to think this. I want help to not think this anymore. If anyone else has ever thought this way, it'd help me out to know?

I seem to believe, innately not intentionally, that I am the only "genuine" case of a person being born into the wrong body. Why? I don't know. I have this idea that because so many people have accepted being "transgender", they can't actually be their true gender. I know it doesn't make sense... I've mentioned before that I have this delusion (that I need to work on with a therapist) that God will turn back time and make me born the gender I really am. For this reason, I'm extremely reluctant to "accept" myself as being transgender. I feel like I'm NOT transgender, I'm male. They're two different things in my mind.

For this reason, I innately assume that I am the only real mistaken gender. Obviously, by joining this forum, I'm trying to overcome this. It must be irritating for you to read this - some teenage kid who believes they're so high and mighty. Please believe I don't mean to be this way.

Anyway... does anyone have any idea what I mean?

God will turn back time and make me born the gender I really am

There is not a single case of this ever happening.  To anyone.  Ever.  Anywhere.  The odds are high that you will NOT be the first.

That's why I called it a  delusion





edited for language

I think I understand what you mean with the whole 'not transgender, but male' thing. I feel the same way, i dont want to be known as transgender, since i am male and want to be known as it. But I think being known as 'transgender' is just for when you are pre-op, just for technical reasons. once a transgender person has surgery and 'fixes whats wrong' to put it one way, and is really what gender they want to be, then they arent transgender anymore but male (or female). am i making sense?

That makes sense. I get that, but I haven't met anyone who has gone through operations, transitioned, been through the social degradation, and not had it effect their identity. I mean, wouldn't transgender always be a part of these peoples identities?

Lots of people, most perhaps, tend to leave that behind as they being the life they wanted to have.

Start reading people's stories here, you'll find a huge pile.  Most will seem foreign, not a part of you, but little by little you'll find parts that are just like your life.

well, you mean as in their memory? that they got grs and are finally in the right body, etc, but still think back to before the surgery and 'who they used to be/look like' ? or as in, even after grs they would be called transgendered?

You guys seem so much more advanced in thinking than me. Really I wish I saw it that way.

I don't know. I guess I think you can't just walk away from a childhood of being given the opposite gender's clothes and toys, teenage years wrongfully identifying as homosexual, and then an operation, and be able to walk away from that as if you're a man /in the same way/ as biological males. What makes men alike is the way they're raised by society. Transsexual men are raised by society in a completely different way then bio men, but in a way that makes them like each other.

I don't know.

well, at this point no one can really change the way they were raised, even though i understand it would still be on ones mind. but once an official male, i dont think someone will really think about their past and dwell on it, they will hopefully just be getting on with their life.

that does make me think though..what if you have a partner in the future, and they ask about your past? i mean, no one really knows what will happen until it happens.

So, don't think of it as walking away, think of it as walking into something new.  You don't have to leave it all behind.  It is what it is, and I'm sure a lot of it is very much a part of you.  Take the good, and move forward.

Transgender is just a term that was made to describe GID.  There are dif levels of what a person might feel inside. TS/TV/CD they all are terms used to associate ones's gender preference.  I am TG but also was born intersexed, so I totally understand where you are coming from.  I seriously do not think that YOU are the only one that feels like this.  Maybe you have something inside that is more female or that drives your thinking in that direction.  There are tests that can be done, but alot is not known yet about true TG.  I believe there can also be a mix of both genders that battle over supremacy within some ppl.  I have also talked to "TG" who try to force themselves into a mold, when in fact they are neither one specific gender as far as thinking.  I do not believe in categorizing, but one must use terminology to discuss specific topics.  IE:  I am bisexual.  My spouse is hetro, so can she be both hetro and bi if she were to be intimate with me?  I would perhaps say that she is bisexual, because if she were having an intimate relationship with me it would be a bi one.  I am bi because i like both male and female.  Males as a straight female and females as a bi (female/female) relationship.  I do not consider myself lesbian, because i do not like only women.  This is a way to describe what I am, but of course there are many variables and faucets of myself that you, nor anyone on this board can possibly know, because they simply dont know me.   

Contrary to being unusual I would say your attitudes are pretty well the standard starting point for everyone here. In fact these days it's what holds a lot of people back. They see some strange ones on TV and think, well I'm not like that, I'm a normal Guy/girl.

Sad fact is the medical definition of transgender (as opposed to any innaccurate and popular misconception) is someone who is genuinely a man born with a womans body, or visa versa. So I'm afraid that unless you are going to start redefining an entire medical dictionary the fact is:

1. you may be angry like pretty well 100% of us,
2. you may not like where you are like pretty well 100% of us,
3. you may not feel that you belong with all the other people who also self identify like pretty well 100% of us,
4. and you may feel that once you have completed your journey, like me and many others, you won't actually be trans anymore but rather be merely someone with an inconvennient past.

But ultimately your feelings, atttitudes and symtoms fit the definition pretty well.

I would say it's a bit like nationality. You are right that, just as I can't escape the historical fact of where I was born, I also can't escape the fact that I started my life with an ambiguous sex. But just as someone can change their nationality so, happily in this day, you can change the sex to which you belong.

Yes it remains a part of you in that much as we would all like to erase the past we can't because for some reason God never seems to oblige... but NO it does not mean that you forever in someway have to feel like you are an oddity... a half and half.

The treatment works. I was trans (& in my case intersexed) and now I am a normal woman with an unusual past. Period.

Quote from: whatever on March 21, 2010, 10:37:11 PM
You guys seem so much more advanced in thinking than me. Really I wish I saw it that way.

I don't know. I guess I think you can't just walk away from a childhood of being given the opposite gender's clothes and toys, teenage years wrongfully identifying as homosexual, and then an operation, and be able to walk away from that as if you're a man /in the same way/ as biological males. What makes men alike is the way they're raised by society. Transsexual men are raised by society in a completely different way then bio men, but in a way that makes them like each other.

I don't know.

I can relate to how you thought of all this. I had a similar viewpoint before. If there's so much competition among biomales, how am I even a part of the competition. Minor things already can put you at the bottom, and this is major. The fact that I grew up female will always be there. I was (and at the moment, still am) hormonally female and this has an effect that can't simply be ignored. I'll never really be "100% male."

But at some point, it ceases to be important. Just accept who you were and how you came to be and really, although not the very manliest man still a man nonetheless. Really, being just like the average man/being exactly how you would have turned out if you were born with testicles instead of ovaries would be incredibly lucky. You'll appreciate simply not being an average female if the dysphoria worsens. Actually, now that I've typed it this seems kind of unrelated. Leaving it here anyway.

Quote from: whatever on March 21, 2010, 09:48:50 PMFor this reason, I'm extremely reluctant to "accept" myself as being transgender. I feel like I'm NOT transgender, I'm male. They're two different things in my mind.

Well, if you're not transgendered and simply male then why are you here? Everything is fine. Transgender is simply a way of describing this inconvenient, incongruent body that (likely) pisses you off enough to do something about it.

Quote from: whatever on March 21, 2010, 10:06:58 PM
That makes sense. I get that, but I haven't met anyone who has gone through operations, transitioned, been through the social degradation, and not had it effect their identity. I mean, wouldn't transgender always be a part of these peoples identities?

You don't hear from a lot of post-transition "wrong body" types because we generally drift away from "the community" after a while.

There's nothing bad about that (or about staying with the community either - I have much respect for them), it's just that for people not to "drift", they have to be getting something out of the interaction. A lot of post transition people just find there is nothing much left to hold their interest. They are comfortable, they've set things right, and moved on. And some people stick around because they like helping others enough for it to be interesting. Some have other reasons.

We're brought together by the cirumstance of having the same medical condition (and that, when we come here, fixing that condition is high on our "interests list"). Once that link is broken, it's like childhood schoolyard friends that have grown up to find they don't have much in common - your paths "uncross" and you end up persuing and building other relationships with people that are sharing your next "interest".

The people to which you are refering do exist, and they are plentiful. It's just that you won't often find a lot of them being very public.


I don't get the link in this thread between op-status (and legal / transition status) and mental "gender" though.

I can't speak for other people, but I've always just been male. I haven't had an identity that's changed over time down some path of "female feels right -> other label feels right  -> male feels right". It's just been "male (but trying to ignore it because it'd be annoying and painful to deal with) -> male (Ah screw it, it's too painful not to deal with it)".

I am psychologically speaking, male (with the professional opinions to back me up ) regardless of my organs or how other people may have seen me in the past. No operation, opinion or legal document is going to change what gender I am.

In the end, I'll always have an awkward medical past - weird scars, deformed genitals and all, and my upbringing will be slightly different (but not that different - it's not as if there's a perscribed method for each gender). Doesn't mean I'm not as man as the next man, man.

Once you bring non-physical factors into it, I think the perfect "100% male" is a mythical creature from a non-existant, non-varying unrealistic scenario reflecting what the collective FTM consciousness wishes had been. He's a unicorn on a pedistal. Screw him and his measuring horn... there are as many different men in the world as there are men, with just as many different upbringings and subsequent neurosis