In this thread https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,6684.0 Cindy had the unfortunate experience in abruptly loosing an online friend after she revealed her TS past.   Sheila also mentioned that she has experienced the same issue.

The question is:

At the risk of loosing a friend, loved one, acquaintance, date, BF/GF etc. Would you out yourself to them?

Is there a need for us to do this?

And because of this risk, would you go deep stealth (as much as possible)?

Personally I would not out myself unless the other person(s) were close to guessing.  I hope to go deep stealth and not reveal my past.  Now a decision like this has some ethical issues associated with it.  For example, am I not being deceitful by not revealing my past, or at the very least not being very truthful/honest.  And I would add how could one build any type of relationship based on deceit and dishonesty?

When I first started to date Gillian we didn't go into background checks or the like we asked questions of each other but never so deep that I/she needed to reveal our deep dark secrets, and believe me we had some, as we both discovered later in our marriage.

Just my own thoughts.

Steph

For me, it depends on a case-by-case basis, and especially on the individual involved.  I have a friend from grade school who I will likely never see again, because of his bigoted attitudes.  Outing myself to this person would have a very low chance of doing anything positive.

I would say in Cindi's case, she gambled on the positive aspects of outing herself.  And on that case, it appears right now she did not achieve the intended outcome (and I believe it can still change for the good, given time.)

To people I'm out to I can be very much more open.  There's much less of me to hide. 

But for most of society, my transness is just TMI (Too Much Information).  That's where functional stealth comes in.  If those you interact with regularly see you as your target gender and react to you as your target gender and behave appropriately towards your target gender, why trip their circuit-breakers needlessly?  There may come a time you have to out yourself, or someone does it for you.  But until then, in ordinary daily situations, I think the risks outweigh any possible rewards.

Karen

That is a very good question and one I face right now.  At work, I have a friend I really like and we are doing more and more things together like eating lunch together regularly.  I mean we're becoming best buddies.  She started at my work after I had transitioned and we took right to each other as friends.  I have no idea whether she knows about me or not.  So either, she knows and is extremely accepting or she doesn't know.  Now, her husband also works here and he definitely knows because I worked with him on a few projects prior to transition and in fact sits next to me and did so on the day I went fulltime.  My guess is that she probably does know and is respecting me by not saying anything and I haven't felt the need to say anything.  So at times it seems she knows and other times it seems she has no clue.  If we continue being as good of friends as it seems like we'll be, I would like her to come with me when I get my surgery.  So it comes down to: Do I tell her and possibly lose a very good friend (which would be very heartbreaking) or do I not say anything and just go on how things are going?  Also, if I do say anything, how would I approach the subject.  So, this whole thing has actually been causing me stress lately.  I haven't decided on an answer yet.

Oh, and the other thing is I kind of don't mention anything TS related at work and use a lot of gender neutral language to talk about my personal life.

Melissa

I would only out myself to someone with whom I plan to have a romantic relationship.  As far as everyone else, there's no reason why they should know, for our pasts do not concern to anyone, except those we choose to tell.


tinkerbell

Yes I would.

Stealth or not the most critical thing in any relationship for me is honesty and openness.

I want someone to love me, regardless of my past.

If they cannot handle that, then they have absolutely no place in my life.

Becky

Since I went dark back in 1987, I have told no one except my hubby.  And then at the end of June, this year, I told all of you   Now, you all know that Cindianna Jones is not my real name.  I've been very upfront about that. 

Generally, I tell no one.  My good astronomy buddies do not know.  I probably will never tell them. I don't even tell my doctors if there is no need to know.

In this particular instance that Steph is talking about, my personal profile was visible for the looking.  I naturally assumed that she had seen it.  So my casual reference to another URL pointing to my autobiography did out me.  She had not read my profile on line.

But recently, it has felt good to tell people in the anonymoty of cyberspace.  With my pen name, I've told potentially millions.  Years of pent up longing have been released.  I feel that I can make a difference in some small way.  And it is soothing to some degree to let it out.

And I have to say this to everyone here.  I am very fortunate to have "met" you all.  You have enriched my life.  I have outed myself to you.  Some of you know things about me that no one else knows.  And it is a spiritual thing to have shared it with you.

I will continue to live my day to day life in normalcy.  On the world wide web, I'll be open.  I know who I am.  I am proud of who I am. I'm willing to share my story for anyone interested.

Cindi

I'm going with depends on the person.

Naturally, anyone who knew me before who will continue to know me will have to know that my appearance and name have changed to go with the identity that's been there all along. This means good friends, relatives, associates through work. (One I was afraid wouldn't accept did, one I was sure would didn't, and one I was completely unsure of turned out to be accepting.) Friends and business associates I make after transition don't need to know if it can be at all avoided.

Potential romantic partners will need to know, and I'm really thinking they should know from the start while I'm still pre-op. Down the road, I'm not sure; I do think having the right physiology does make some difference but on the other hand I ultimately don't think it fair to never tell them.

I agree with others that if you are in a relationship honesty is best. However, for others to know would depend on case by case. I have a very good friend at work who knows only because I knew I could trust him. However, if I test a friend out so to speak, to see if (s)he is accepting of someone like me and they fail obviously I go stealth and if I feel I can be accepted and trust them then I out myself just so I don't have to worry about being 'me'. Problem for me is my body is evolving on it's own without HRT so I don't know if I can keep up stealth any longer. Oh well. C'est la vie!! 

Only for romantic partners in the real.  Online I am pretty open and it chases away most of the trolls (and attracts new ones which I then beat off with the vorpal clue bat +2) plus I see no real need not to admit it.

In the real I used to share as I thought that I could not pass.  By going out I learned differently.  People thought that I was a completely different person than the online personae because they did not read me as trans.  A GF (now ex) did not want to share that part of my past with others around her.  Fine with me and I managed to pull it off.  So now I do not out myself from the start.  If someone reads me then I am honest and go from there (in my social circles).  For everyone else, it is none of their business and I can be rather rude and nasty when I the situation calls for it.

Oh and I have had docs that had no clue.  One of them I outed myself because I had newly transitioned and it was feeding a lot of my stress so I answered truthfully about any new stress in my life.    I love the shocked expressions, they are rather amusing.

I would not out myself to just anyone, but if I feel they are going to be a good friend then I would out myself. Just like some others have mentioned, honesty is the best policy. I don't care how far you go into stealth, you can not go far enough. Someone will recognize you and there will go the relationship, not because you were TS, but because you didn't value your relationship with this person. You have to trust people sometimes. If you don't then you are putting yourself right back into that closet again. I vowed never to be there ever again. If someone can not handle my past life, then I don't need them around. Now, I'm pretty much out to everyone and I believe that everyone in this town or county knows who I am. I don't get denied anything and I'm not afraid of the outside world. Be yourself and if they don't like it then you really don't have a friend, do you?
Sheila

Hi everyone,

Nothing has damaged me more than "the secret". To keep a secret is to say this is shameful and wrong and I don't want you to know about it because you might not like me if you know.  I don't want to be friends with anyone that could not accept me.   I am a transwoman.  I always have been, I always will be.   I refuse to accept even one more drop of guilt or shame for it. I am proud of who I am and I don't care who knows.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Elizabeth on October 11, 2006, 04:53:49 PM
Hi everyone,

Nothing has damaged me more than "the secret". To keep a secret is to say this is shameful and wrong and I don't want you to know about it because you might not like me if you know.  I don't want to be friends with anyone that could not accept me.   I am a transwoman.  I always have been, I always will be.   I refuse to accept even one more drop of guilt or shame for it. I am proud of who I am and I don't care who knows.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hey there Elizabeth.

While I disagree with parts of your reply I none the less applaud your conviction and agree that there should never be any shame or guilt associated with us.   For myself I am a woman and always have been, I'm simply burdened by the labels conjured up to set me apart from others, or to conveniently group me with others wether that be transwoman, TS, TG or any other 'T' word ( I haven't been called a tramp yet, but I have been called a bitch but that begins with 'B') but I digress.  I too am proud, proud  to be a woman.

To the others, like many here I hope to live in stealth for the rest of my life and should I find someone else and it seems as though the relationship may get serious, move to another level, etc. then I of course would think about revealing my past, for as I said in my initial question "how could one build any type of relationship based on deceit and dishonesty?", almost a bit of a quandary - damned if you do and damned if you don't ^*shrug*

Steph

I hear where you're coming from, Steph!  I have also been called a bitch  >

Seriously though, I can understand not wanting to out yourself.  But I do think that it depends on the level of the relationship and should be considered on a case by case basis.  Usually, I allow someone to get to know me before I let them know that I'm bisexual.  This is because of the burden that label can sometimes put on me and I'm sure the TS label puts a significantly larger burden on you! 

The reason I hold off on telling isn't because I'm ashamed, but I want someone to know me before they know the label.  I want them to have a chance at understanding that "Kelly the friendly smart girl in Biology class" and "Kelly, the weird bisexual girl that's marrying a TS" are one in the same so that labels will have less of a chance at changing their mind about me.  Some people it won't matter, their mind will change about me.  Others will actually appreciate me more it.

But I don't like keeping it secret, I want friends that will accept me for who I am, if they don't accept me then screw 'em, I don't want them for friends, then!  With acquaintences, however, I feel that's different. If a friend from Biology class isn't ever going to be more than that friend I had in Biology class(and usually you can tell) then I'm not going to bring it because it's not worth it to me at that point. 

Ah...it really is all just a big pain in the arse, though, isn't it?

Quote from: angelsgirl on October 12, 2006, 03:43:19 PMAh...it really is all just a big pain in the arse, though, isn't it?

Society does make it into one for us.

I can agree with what everyone has written.  I do not dress publicly (not normally) being non-transitioning, so i come off as a guy probably more gay or bi than masculine though; that seems to be the interpretation from people although for some reason i get equal hits from women and men>?
Weird???  I would have to confess partially due to all this and not transitioning physically (i have transitioned very much emotionally and mentally) I'm more BI when it comes to sex or a relationship, guess it all depends?
Anyway I have come out or told of my gender only to a select few, I keep a fake image at work pretty much its safer and i work farther from where i live too.  If someone man or woman for some reason gets close to me or we become more than regular friends and start to share?  then a piece of me feels guilty cause i think well they "think" they know this person "me" when they rally do not is it fair for them and me to continue without being more open or honest about the gender issues?  So every now and then when i become much better acquainted with someone I'll bring it up in a simple form or way and not get too elaborate unless they show interest or concern.  Online I met a wonderful friend who i've known for 7 years now and we met in a camping discussion forumn at first and after emailing and stuff i just came out with it.  Cyber is easier i agree.  at work two people know and the one i honestly believe did not understand anything i explained to her and we fell out sort of anyway after a few years.. The other was a friend from the start and i only told her last year one day i was having a growing episode and was just completely besde myself she picked up on it and said what is wrong with you?  I said i am having a very very bad day!  She questioned me what family?  work?  Money?  what is it?  I said well to udnerstand it you have to give me some time and have an open mind!  she's cool actually if anything she underscore it and acts like it is not a big deal she uses the term get over it all the time?
Anyway other than my imediate / some extended family knowing, a few close friends in my town that's it!
My one suicide attempt put some publicity on things so even though i know some people around here know, its never asked of me or discussed?

Quote from: Melissa on October 10, 2006, 05:40:39 PM
That is a very good question and one I face right now.  At work, I have a friend I really like and we are doing more and more things together like eating lunch together regularly.  I mean we're becoming best buddies.  She started at my work after I had transitioned and we took right to each other as friends.  I have no idea whether she knows about me or not.  So either, she knows and is extremely accepting or she doesn't know.  Now, her husband also works here and he definitely knows because I worked with him on a few projects prior to transition and in fact sits next to me and did so on the day I went fulltime.  My guess is that she probably does know and is respecting me by not saying anything and I haven't felt the need to say anything.  So at times it seems she knows and other times it seems she has no clue.  If we continue being as good of friends as it seems like we'll be, I would like her to come with me when I get my surgery.  So it comes down to: Do I tell her and possibly lose a very good friend (which would be very heartbreaking) or do I not say anything and just go on how things are going?  Also, if I do say anything, how would I approach the subject.  So, this whole thing has actually been causing me stress lately.  I haven't decided on an answer yet.

Oh, and the other thing is I kind of don't mention anything TS related at work and use a lot of gender neutral language to talk about my personal life.

Melissa

Well, I decided to tell her today.  A couple of days ago she had said something that hinted that she already knew.  So, I broached the subject.  It was getting too hard to talk to her about personal stuff without making any references to my past.  She was completely cool.  Nobody had said anything to her and she has a smart remark if anybody had said something.  I feel so relieved now.  I know I have a true friend in her and I can talk a lot more freely.  It's actually pretty amazing how similar we are, especially in terms of beliefs and values.  We talked for a little bit about how she viewed things and said I have a friend in her for life and that she meant that.  I was all choked up and was trying hard not to cry (just a couple tears came out), but I couldn't ask for a better friend.  I feel so blessed.

Melissa