In my opinion, MENSA is good for two things: penis-measuring, and excuse-making.  If nothing else, I'm proud of this community (apparently teeming with super-geniuses) for generally not joining that group.

And if y'all are so smart, please go make a difference with your brilliant minds.  Here's an idea: stem cell induced SRS.  Make it happen =P.

PS- really great post, Tekla .

     It's Deja vu all over again!  Didn't this conversation occur about a year ago?  Financial writer Laura Rowley in her column of 5/3/07, quotes Jay Zagorsky a research scientist at Ohio State who examines the relationship between IQ and wealth. He found that each IQ point increase correlates to an increase in income of $234-616 per point above the base of 100.  Smarter people, as determined on standardized IQ tests make more money.  In our society pay is often a proxy of "worth".  As wrong as that frequently is.  I have seen other academic studies done that indicate that rather than the "wild eyed, disheveled, socially inept, madmen" picture of intelligent people that many have, actual studies indicate an alarming level of "mundaneness" to them.  Ah, didn't Aesop have a fable about the fox and the grapes? 
     It seems too bad that the Pope and the RCC didn't use that "Jesuit Logic" with the scad of pederast priests preying on the choir boys, rather than just moving them on to a new parish, parents innocent of their crimes, and of course "fresh meat."  Well, it seems good that at least some people got second chances.  Perhaps Binks could arrange to rape a priest?  Would she get a second chance then?  Or are they only for priests, who one would think would have a higher duty to avoid sin to begin with?  But then, that is the difference between logic and miracles.  I do well with logic, but often fail to comprehend that whole religion thingy.

"wild eyed, disheveled, socially inept, madmen" picture of intelligent people that many have, actual studies indicate an alarming level of "mundaneness" to them

Pretty much true across the board in so many ways.  It goes along with people who confuse fashion trends with being rebels, when real rebels learn that the first lesson of rebellion is to blend in, not to stand out.  With something like real intelligence the trick is not to let anyone know until it's too late - it's your secret weapon.  And if you have to tell everyone how smart you are, you're doing it wrong.  Even if they are dumb, or perhaps especially if they are dumb, they ought to know that pretty quickly on their own if you really are.

It seems too bad that the Pope and the RCC didn't use that "Jesuit Logic" with the scad of pederast priests preying on the choir boys
Well, the joke at my HS was that Rome didn't listen to the Jesuits, and they returned the favor.  Very few of the abuse cases involve priests involved in religious orders, because the orders have a lot more control over the priests then a parish or a local bishop does.  Reports like that to the Provincial Superior, and then onto the Superior General, might not get you kicked out - but it sure would get you transfered to someplace far, far away from young people.  Besides the Jesuits at my school would have been far more into your mom then your little brother.

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on April 03, 2010, 04:27:04 PM
     It's Deja vu all over again!  Didn't this conversation occur about a year ago?

I'm pretty sure that it did, only it was less than a year ago =P.

I will be honest and admit that MENSA is a pet peeve of mine, so I will just about it.  Intelligent people make me swoon, but a person's intelligence is made evident every time they open their mouth to speak.  There is no need whatsoever for anybody to talk about how smart they are.  Also, regarding the other aspect of this conversation, I doubt you'll find many people on Earth that find it interesting to know all the great things a person could have accomplished, if only.

Real accomplishment is always more interesting than woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Something to consider...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Quote from: blackMamba on April 03, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
Something to consider...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Thank you for posting this link. I'd always wondered why so many politicians who were so obviously so dumb thought they were smart enough to tell the rest of us how to live. And now I know ... !

In Winnie the Pooh, the character Owl has a very high IQ. Owl is always quite ready to tell everyone how smart he is too, and to offer his advice about anything to anyone, whether they want it or not. For all of Owl's Knowing Things however, he never seems to have very practical advice. In fact, it is a Bear of Very Little Brain who often shows the most common sense of all, and is nowhere nearly as pretentious about it as old Owl.

Here's what Pooh had to say on the subject of Knowing Things:

"Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know everything there is to be known." *

I dunno, I think I might have to agree with that.




* Winnie the Pooh, Pooh's Little Instruction Book

Love that Chloe,

If you put all the high IQ politicians in a debate the first thing they would do is have a salary increase. Then they dismiss Parliament for study tours.


Us idiots just do the work.

How was Aussie Easter? I noted your reaction to the shop and work closures, the next weird one is Anzac day. Love to hear your thoughts on that. And if you can, attend a dawn service. Very emotional from a part of my person I did not know that I had.
And no, it is not a glorification of war. Took me a while.


Hugs

Cindy

Quote from: tekla on April 03, 2010, 06:52:25 PM
Real accomplishment is always more interesting than woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Quoted for truth.

I do have to say that Tekla has it right. IQ is, at best, only a measure of aptitude, and you can still fail to live up to that potential by failure to apply yourself. In fact I think that those who apply themselves consistently often achieve far than those who have earlier shown much promise but squander it in an ill disciplined way. I have undoubtedly been guilty of that at times in the past.

I also like the comment about creeping up on someone and not letting them see you coming until it is too late. That's a very valuable lesson to learn I feel. It's a bit like winning a battle, you can either do it the costly American way, by vastly superior firepower and numbers, or you can be like the Spartans at Thermopylae, expend far fewer resources, and still get the result by a combination of courage consistency and cunning. Aged 17 I was a devotee of the American way. In my 50's I am finally learning to adopt Tekla's advice and go Spartan - and you know what? The results are so much better.

I only know what my IQ was because, like all schoolchildern in the UK in the 60's and 70's we were forced to take the tests. Even back then they seemed rather pointless I just happened to have a knack for them, so as for joining Mensa I can think of many better ways to spend my time.

Each to their own I feel.

When it comes to intelligence, I sorta fall in the middle ground.   I am just smart enough to be considered intelligent by those who are average, but stupid by the geniuses. 

As I'm sure rejennyrated would agree with, creativity has much more to do with execution than clever ideas.  What's the old adage?  Art is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration?  Seems about right.

Quote from: tekla on April 04, 2010, 01:53:13 PM
As I'm sure rejennyrated would agree with, creativity has much more to do with execution than clever ideas.  What's the old adage?  Art is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration?  Seems about right.

Darn right I agree. I am learning that every day of late. In the last 9 days I have written 20,000 words to add to the 10,000 I already had. So now I have a mere 60,000 left to find.

When creativity suddenly goes from being a fun game to something that someone is seriously proposing to pay you for, with attached deadline, that's when you start to learn about the real value discipline and hard work as oposed to being a diletante prodigy!

I remember taking an IQ test and did alright. I was above average in testing but certainly not genius level. But I have to agree with Tekla on this one. People do better with IQ tests every time they take them and they actually have a very limited range of accurately testing one 'intelligence' There are several forms of intelligences that aren't taken into consideration. There are all sorts of intelligences that aren't considered ever.

Here is a good example of skills and intelligences people fail to notice...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

Visual-spatial
Verbal-linguistic
Logical-mathematical
Bodily-kinesthetic
Musical-rhythmic
Interpersonal
Intrapersonal

Society (Here in America since thats where I live and know most about) mainly focus on one, logical-mathematical and hint sometimes at others. Sorry but anyone that can memorize can do math and history and are no better than all the other cogs. I have taken math into calculous and I never use it, and it doesn't make me any better than my best friend who is brilliant but cant even do algebra. Its all too common to downplay the arts and other useful skills. Like agriculture for instance...

I was in an ethics class and we had a debate on wether or not it would be better to include a required class in plants and animals or add another math class. Everyone except me and two other people voted for math... all I can say is FAIL. We have many math classes already and we cant even learn a little bit about our own planet. Its a little important to learn about what we need to survive don't you think? The ignorance people have of our own world and how nature works astounds me.... but thats getting off topic.

Art sports music drama and so much more is thrown out the window. All which are actually very important for people in their own right. Funds for them are constantly being cut.

I should really stop ranting now.

But yeah... IQ tests fail to accurately tell ones aptitude for life.

I was always required to take a full range of subjects, from math to lit to a full range of science classes, along with history, government and technical drawing.

My undergrad degree was Phi Betta Kappa, which requires excellence^* in the liberal arts and sciences.  My grad top degree was Phi Kappa Phi - which is outstanding work in one field, and that seems right to me.

Most of the people I work with have an outstanding degree of technical competence in carpentry, mechanics and electricity, but they are also (for the most part) extremely literate in cultural stuff and can go on for hours about music, theater, opera and all that stuff.  They can read (and execute) schematics and blueprints, you can trust them with professional power tools, and they can quote Shakespeare at length also.  Oh yeah, they are also very, very good with people.  Hell my vitia/resume says under special skills: Works well with difficult people, works extremely well with extremely difficult people.  And that's true.

The classic quote comes from Heinlein speaking as Lazarus Long:
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.



* - That's academic speak for all 'A's.

Quote from: Jen on April 03, 2010, 04:19:00 PM
In my opinion, MENSA is good for two things: penis-measuring ...

in that case, I think you may just have hit upon the reason why not too many folks round here are interested in joining it ... !

I'm sure that she meant that MENSA is a reverse measuring device, the higher the score, the less you score.

I believe there are multi-intelligences, One person may be brilliant at one thing but useless at another and so forth. To use a narrow gauge for estimating one's intelligence leaves out others that might be just as or more intelligent than they in certain areas and meta cognition highlights this very well.

Now what did I say?

Stardust   

I have always done very well on every test that I have taken, however I am not too sure if that means anything practical. I mean I can get a great score on a test, I don't need to study, I don't need to review, etc.

But, many times I feel really stupid. I mean, I do not have a great deal of wisdom. I make well informed decisions that are terrible. I don't want to sell myself short but, intelligence without wisdom doesn't seem to be very helpful.

And, whats more I question alot of the tests that told me I am intelligent, as in all actuality all I have really done is retain information with minimal input Is that intelligence, or just decent memory and perceptiveness? I mean I know that other people I have met who scored much lower on various tests were smarter than me.

For example, my troubleshooting skills are nowhere near my brothers, but he never gets close to my score on aptitude tests, so who is really smarter? personally I wouldn't say me...