Androgyne: a colourful, elastic, salty term that's only a few steps away from A, B,C, or D (etc..).  And I'm wondering, because I can and because I will, what exactly is that 'tic' that makes one go 'I am AG flavoured'.

What is it that makes you say;
'No I'm not a tomboy/sissy (apparently that's the male terminology) lost in the woods'
'No I'm not a transsexual in touch with my feminine/masculine side'
'No I'm not trying to find an excuse for feeling different'
'No I'm not trying to be different'
'No I'm not a male/female who's just in touch with their feminine/masculine side'

[insert questionmark here]

Because truthfully, I do wonder about those questions every now and then. Sometimes I do wonder if I'm not just a tomboy who ran into a sparkly pole in the woods and decided to cling onto it. Alike, I sometimes wonder if perhaps I am a ftm transsexual and that it's a 'fear of the unknown' that makes me shun away.

Then again, if I were just a tomboy lost in the woods I'd use that pole to climb and overlook the forest to find a way out, and if I were to wake up male one day I'd feel the same I do now (after screaming for 5mins 'OMG there's something between my legs!').

Nevertheless, every now and then those questions do pop up in my mind, and I sit and wonder 'what exactly makes it Tic?'

I did not know you were a poet no_id!

You don't do performance poetry do ya? Cause you write with a spoken voice.

Anyway, I like it.

Quote from: Nicky on March 29, 2010, 02:30:48 PM
I did not know you were a poet no_id!

You don't do performance poetry do ya? Cause you write with a spoken voice.

Anyway, I like it.

Haha thanks.
I used to write a lot of poetry; slept with a thesaurus under my pillow. Nowadays just the occasional short story/imaginary rant fixes and the lovely claim; 'I have a way with words'

For me I think...it was a process of elimination. I determined that there was wrongness with my gender identity because I ruled out basically all other "crazy" that it could be. (did therapy, got diagnosed with a number of things that never fit me quite right and took pills which never helped my issues)

So then I started looking at the gender spectrum. A quick glance and you find FtM or MtF. Since I'm not starting male..I went with FtM. "tried it on for size" and found that it really didn't fit. Some of this, and some of that perhaps...a few things in common...maybe. A bit more digging and I come across androgyny and "Eurkea!" it fits!!

Every now and again I do have doubt because I rarely like to "dress andrgoynous" I know the rules of how to behave in a way that would make people question...but that's not what I'm here for. So I just have a simlpe conversation with myself that goes a little like this,

"Ok then. Tired of being androgyn eh? Well...let's stop it then. Let's just be *female*. No? Don't want to be female? Feels it doesn't fit..eh? Hmmm...well let's be *male* then. Same problem? Huh. Guess we're stuck being androgyn then. Onward and upward."

For me it was similar to sevans experience.

I bopped along for 40+ years knowing that something.... didn't quite fit. As a bio male I didn't get along at all with men. It was always a tough, difficult, horrible task that came up every time the wife and I got invited to a social event. I hated it. Eventually I just stopped going.

Over time a lot of things happened, one of which is that I found this site. After a few years of introspection (am i gay? do i want to transition?) I figured out that i am simply between the binaries. Most of the time im in boy mode, but sometimes i switch into girl mode. And i have no idea what triggers the switch. Last weekend I was feeling quite girly but no one knew it. I just went about the things I had to do. Now it's back to boy mode again.

Since i'm married i came fully out to the wife. I thought it was not a good idea to hold secrets between two married people. She's working through it, but she has indicated that she can accept it.

Quote from: phx_rising on March 29, 2010, 03:43:58 PM
"Ok then. Tired of being androgyn eh? Well...let's stop it then. Let's just be *female*. No? Don't want to be female? Feels it doesn't fit..eh? Hmmm...well let's be *male* then. Same problem? Huh. Guess we're stuck being androgyn then. Onward and upward."

Nicely put - do have a question though. From what I've read from other threads you pack? And I'm curious if that's related to the 'trying out ftm for a bit' part you mentioned or if it's something you do consistently or just when you're in a male mode. Sexual marker mingle?...

Quote from: riven1 on March 29, 2010, 11:39:03 PM
I figured out that i am simply between the binaries. Most of the time im in boy mode, but sometimes i switch into girl mode. And i have no idea what triggers the switch. Last weekend I was feeling quite girly but no one knew it. I just went about the things I had to do. Now it's back to boy mode again.

Also a question here; what's the 'tic'/part that makes you cross out the 'crossdresser' label?

Quote from: no_id on March 30, 2010, 02:39:08 AM
Also a question here; what's the 'tic'/part that makes you cross out the 'crossdresser' label?

I've taken certain steps to feminize my body just a bit. Crossdressers typically don't do that.

The short answer is yes I have a packer, no I don't find the need to use it much; if ever. Somehow...it just being there is enough for my comfort. I like the idea, I like what it stands for but I don't much like it in my pants. If it was part of my body...that'd be a whole different story.

Which brings me to the longer version of my answer. What's my ideal body look like. If I could close my eyes and envision myself "perfect" what might that look like? Well...andro facial structure (which I feel I've already got. ie: Not male or female distinctivly) however I really like beards and would like to have one. (yea...facial hair does put that "andro" face into the male catigory...I get that) I would have small breasts, but clearly breast, I'd prefer not to have any body hair...bleck. As for the downstairs bits. Well...a penis and a vagina would be ideal and AWESOME.

Guess that's why I'm on T. My clit will grow larger, I will get facial hair, and my very fair fem features will firm up some.

Back to packing though....it's like...I *want* to like it...but I don't. Maybe that's because I've got an STP and the hose keeps stabbing me at inoppertune moments (I can't seem to keep it between my legs, and even if it does it still stabs me some)

Thanks for getting back to the questions riven and Sevan, and for being open 'bout it. Pretty sure it can be helpful for newbies who are figuring out where they belong. 

Quote from: no_id on March 29, 2010, 12:57:07 PM

What is it that makes you say;
'No I'm not a tomboy/sissy (apparently that's the male terminology) lost in the woods'
'No I'm not a transsexual in touch with my feminine/masculine side'
'No I'm not trying to find an excuse for feeling different'
'No I'm not trying to be different'
'No I'm not a male/female who's just in touch with their feminine/masculine side'

[insert questionmark here]

well
I am a sissy but Its way more intence and complicated then that
I'm not the opposite of my birth sex so I'm not transsexual if I was M2F you would think I'd be able to relate to other M2F people but most insist on the binary
there are many different things that make me different this is just one of those.
I'm not trying to be different I just am
I'm me society says that some things I like are Fem but I don't have a fem side and a man side I'm just me
and I'm not presenting as I do to piss people off

Yes great stuff i read here thanks all.

I like having a girls lower body and a boys upper body
and a girls legal identification and a boys (not a mans) outward appearence
I like not having to shave and i love not going bald and growing long hair


Maybe there's a poem in that

Quote from: ativan on April 01, 2010, 11:57:39 PM
Then this choosing thing came up.

Right, 'choosing', left or right, one or two, a or b, + or -, with the optional (variety) ones I mentioned in the OP.

So what I'm wondering, in your case ativian if the 'pressure' to choose has increased/decreased since you figured you're Androgyne - as in; now you 'adopted' to be a gender variant there's simply more options added to the list.
And, M2MtF2FtM, did you know about your AG identity before you transitioned? (If I recall correctly from your intro, you didn't) And if not did this 'pressure to choose' lead you to transition mtf in the first place?

I have dysphoria with my female body, but I don't want to be a man. I think that's the central part of it for me. If I were to fully transition FTM with T and surgery and living full time, I honestly think I wouldn't be happy, and that that doesn't represent my identity. I don't fit into a binary and I don't want to pretend that I need to pick a side anymore.

I know that my identity is "feminine guy". But I don't think I need to transition to present in the way that I want and be perceived, at least by some of the people I know, in the way that I want. Becoming more confident in who I am, and talking to people like you guys, has helped me accept that my choices aren't limited to being an unhappy woman or being an unhappy man.

I wanted to do this because i knew i wasn't male and hated that part of my life. But if there was a pill that i could have taken that made all ok i would have taken it. I am not unhappy i am just poorer YIKES    So i would do this again but maybe save on the breast implants  and definately reduce the hormones. Although if i didn't go all the way i wouldn't be where i am at now.

I did have an interesting dream the other night I thought i might share it here. I was at a dance club dancing with someone who liked my moves. She was very happy with our time on the dance floor. We both felt a very nice closeness. I happen to give her a ride to some place and well the next thing i know i was kissing her. She then started to touch me and i realized i was getting quite excited. I then felt her hands go down between my legs and at that point i half awoke realizing and hoping she didn't mind finding out that i didn't have what she though i might had down there.   

Quote from: no_id on April 02, 2010, 04:09:12 AM
Right, 'choosing', left or right, one or two, a or b, + or -, with the optional (variety) ones I mentioned in the OP.

So what I'm wondering, in your case ativian if the 'pressure' to choose has increased/decreased since you figured you're Androgyne - as in; now you 'adopted' to be a gender variant there's simply more options added to the list.
And, M2MtF2FtM, did you know about your AG identity before you transitioned? (If I recall correctly from your intro, you didn't) And if not did this 'pressure to choose' lead you to transition mtf in the first place?

Quote from: brainiac on April 02, 2010, 12:32:26 PM
I have dysphoria with my female body, but I don't want to be a man. I think that's the central part of it for me. If I were to fully transition FTM with T and surgery and living full time, I honestly think I wouldn't be happy, and that that doesn't represent my identity. I don't fit into a binary and I don't want to pretend that I need to pick a side anymore.

Wiiieeuw you just worded feelings similar to mine. That's pretty neat. 
Every now and then ftm does cross my mind, but then there's the 'hm but that would bring me back to square one'.

Quote from: ativan on April 02, 2010, 09:38:40 PM
Not sure about pressure, I suppose less. That doesn't seem important at this time. I haven't adopted anything and I don't figure I am androgyne, thats something that just is. Androgyne is just a name, thats just a description, and that seems to fit. I have a name/description, now.
Am I missing the point of your questions? (that wouldn't surprise me, lol)

Yeah, I guess I babbeled a bit on that one with excessive use of '...'..
I suppose what I meant was that instead of getting the feeling of having to play on the team '(cis)man' and '(cis)woman' there's now a hovering thought of maybe having to pick the '(trans)man' or '(trans)woman' squad. Meh, maybe this only makes sense in my skull - who knows...

Thanks for the topic No_Id. I am not settled yet, so I may not end up here, but for me the term "androgynous" has been of great comfort.

I have known for a long time that I am not like most other people with similar bodies. For a long time I just thought I was a healthier version of male - more open to emotion and sharing instead of dominating and so on.

But I met other men who were like that but comfortable in their skin. I am not. I do not hate the body I inhabit, but it does not feel like me.

I do not have an image of what I should look like. It seems like many, maybe most, MtF's have a female image in mind.

I am still experimenting with clothes - I really wish I could just wear whatever, but men in dresses get too much grief for my peace of mind. I get some comment just for wearing pink.

I also have become aware that some part of gender identity seems to be independent of the body, or clothes, or socialization. Some people just "know."

Well, I do not know. Male does not fit. Female does not fit. And I have characteristics or parts of both. I am both male and female, and neither. It really helps to have labels to give form to things I was having trouble getting a handle on. Even though ultimately labels are not real, but just arbitrary designations. And even though I may be just passing through and I may end up fully female someday.

It is hard to just give up 59 years of male experience. But it may happen. In the meantime I really relate to the American Indian idea of "Two-Spirit." That fits for me at least right now.

Maybe what makes androgyny "tic" is just that the human spirit is just too big, too complex for the binary catagories of male and female. We are so much more.

Kendall

I do find you people awesomely strange (but in an entirely GOOD way).

Whilst I don't fully understand it, I fully empathise with the concept of gender as a spectrum, and even regard myself as having a few fluid elements my being, even if I do personally strongly ID as female.

But I love the fact that you all claim the right to make your own rules and dfinitions and not to be bounded by convention. You all rock People! 

I joined in androgyne because I saw it as a big 'other' dump bin to put myself while I mulled over the options more slowly and carefully than my initial 'i must be a female, i aint no male' reaction.

I stayed because I saw a lot of myself in the other androgynes - it ticked with me because the other people all said so many things which seemed (at least) to make sense, even if it didn't completely fit.

Now I feel so comfortable in the personal identification as androgyne that I don't even think about it all that much, and just pop in here for the interesting bits and pieces and to stay vaguely in touch.

- I do occasionally have my doubts - sometimes feeling that I am a cowardly FTM or a feminine cis-male, but when I entertain this notions I am filled with panic and a compulsion that I have to act that part - I then centre into androgyne - read some of my favourite posts from here sometimes - and I relax again. That relaxation in the identity is enough for it to tick for me.

---

Post Merge: April 04, 2010, 05:57:11 PM

---

"Very few of those who are much entangled in life have spirit and constancy sufficient to support them in the steady practice of open veracity."

Is the quote on my signature, and I find that I find I can support my practice of open veracity with greater ease when I call myself androgyne - it's one less thing to be entangled in.

There were times in my journey up to this point where I became entangled in being an androgyne and stretched those limits I naturally set myself, but not so much anymore.

Quote from: Kendall on April 04, 2010, 12:48:40 AM
In the meantime I really relate to the American Indian idea of "Two-Spirit." That fits for me at least right now.

I actually always felt really disconnected from the "Two-Spirit" idea.. Likely because I don't identify with either gender, and the above implies -just that- in my eyes.

QuoteMaybe what makes androgyny "tic" is just that the human spirit is just too big, too complex for the binary catagories of male and female. We are so much more.

Woosh, had to give that ponder some thought. I think it can be the opposite; "too simplistic for the binary categories of male and female" - as in; there's no urge to follow any gender schema, therefore no rule set to abide to. It just seems to me that a 'spirit' with an integrated rule set must be more complex than the opposite...  Yeah let's call a ramble /end on that one.

Quote from: rejennyrated on April 04, 2010, 11:50:57 AM
I do find you people awesomely strange (but in an entirely GOOD way).
You all rock People! 

Strange and rock'ng... Sounds like a good combo to me.

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 04, 2010, 05:53:59 PM
"Very few of those who are much entangled in life have spirit and constancy sufficient to support them in the steady practice of open veracity."

Is the quote on my signature, and I find that I find I can support my practice of open veracity with greater ease when I call myself androgyne - it's one less thing to be entangled in.

There were times in my journey up to this point where I became entangled in being an androgyne and stretched those limits I naturally set myself, but not so much any more.

Nice take on that Pica. I suppose we encounter similar doubts every now and then. After all; it's human to err... But it's nice knowing that those doubts aren't a solo-ride.


Ah P.S.: No sweat for the thread folk; it is my utmost privilege to fill this forum with two-step rants that turn out el neato discussion topics.

I think what really made it "tic" for me is that I really -wasn't a tomboy. It's that even though I wear skirts and make-up, I still do not identify with the label "female." As far as being male, well, I don't really see much appeal in it.

Maybe that's the best way I can describe it. I know a lot of people who are perfectly happy being one traditional gender or the other, whether they subvert those stereotypes or not. But I just don't get it. In the back of my mind, I really don't see the appeal in choosing one gender or the other. Why would you want to?

And really, the more I think about it, the more it irks me that I'm constantly seen as "female."

As for the "I'm not just trying to find an excuse for feeling different" part... I'm found many excuses over the years, for why I really don't click with most of society.  But all of those excuses still made me feel like it was a bad thing to be different, at one level or another. It's only now that I've started identifying as an androgyne that I can really accept myself and relax about it.