Transgender woman Amanda Gonzalez-Andujar found dead, naked in ransacked apartment

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/03/31/2010-03-31_transgender_woman_edelbuerto_gonzalezandujar_found_dead_naked_in_ransacked_apart.html#ixzz0jn8GElOE


Another trans woman brutally killed and her death is overshadowed by the hateful and ignorant comments posted on the site.  When will it stop and what will it take to change society's views on us?  My belief is that this was a crime of opportunity as a key piece of evidence, her laptop, was missing.  I believe the killer knew she was trans and had communicated with the woman prior to meeting and killing her.  The laptop was stolen to conceal that evidence.

Quote from: Kristyn on March 31, 2010, 04:26:48 PM
Transgender woman Amanda Gonzalez-Andujar found dead, naked in ransacked apartment

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/03/31/2010-03-31_transgender_woman_edelbuerto_gonzalezandujar_found_dead_naked_in_ransacked_apart.html#ixzz0jn8GElOE


Another trans woman brutally killed and her death is overshadowed by the hateful and ignorant comments posted on the site.  When will it stop and what will it take to change society's views on us?  My belief is that this was a crime of opportunity as a key piece of evidence, her laptop, was missing.  I believe the killer knew she was trans and had communicated with the woman prior to meeting and killing her.  The laptop was stolen to conceal that evidence.

I just read the news commentary. This kind of thing really makes me mad, its not right that some one is murdered whoever they are, but just because they are targeted for being transsexual seems even worse. Its not however the first time is it but it should be the last time this kind of thing happens. I will never understand why some people think its OK to kill someone just because they live and think differently. Any government should make this a priority to get the message over that we are ordinary people with an extraordinary biological birth.

It does sound that perhaps she met the murderer over the internet.

Stardust

A priority? Really? A priority to go out of their way to help us, who are like 0.003% of the population by sending out a message that is, at the end of the day, an opinion? (One I share, but I recognize that there's inadequate proof to call it a fact in 100% of cases).

You want to know why people don't accept us? There's a variety of reasons, but one is the same thing people reject about homosexuals too. Our expecting extraordinary over representation for the portion of the population we  represent. And expecting and even trying to force everybody else to conform to our world view.

It's horrible that this person was murdered, but we don't know the circumstances, and as much as I hate to say it, given the circumstances, the missing laptop, the destroyed apartment, how she was found, it's a horrible thing to say but the possibility that this was a sexual or romantic encounter gone wrong can't be ignored. Now before you go and burn me at the stake, I am NOT trying to imply for a moment that that makes what happened justified.

Simply that as transgender people we can't have this viewpoint that the whole world needs to change to suit us, by force (which is what the government becoming involved would be).

The transgender community is a LARGE contributer to the rejection of TS's by mainstream society. Which is why I stay far faaaaar away from it and have no expectations of anyone to be informed of TG issues when I meet them.

We're a minority, an exceptional minority, one that can't even agree amongst itself on what to call each other.

Again, it's really horrible that this person died, it is, but if we're going to discuss this situation, I would like make my view known that I believe the transgender community, in its hyper-acceptance of every kind of gender variant behavior and you-must-conform-to-our-views attitude to mainstream society, is a large contributer to our lack of a good public image.

As for the comments on the news article. They're ignorant internet trolls, they're wrong and in being wrong due to ignorance, I don't really hate them for it.

And I certainly wouldn't hold it against ANYONE for having a negative attitude to the transgender community.

Quote from: Ashley4214 on March 31, 2010, 07:13:50 PM
A priority? Really? A priority to go out of their way to help us, who are like 0.003% of the population by sending out a message that is, at the end of the day, an opinion? (One I share, but I recognize that there's inadequate proof to call it a fact in 100% of cases).

You want to know why people don't accept us? There's a variety of reasons, but one is the same thing people reject about homosexuals too. Our expecting extraordinary over representation for the portion of the population we  represent. And expecting and even trying to force everybody else to conform to our world view.

It's horrible that this person was murdered, but we don't know the circumstances, and as much as I hate to say it, given the circumstances, the missing laptop, the destroyed apartment, how she was found, it's a horrible thing to say but the possibility that this was a sexual or romantic encounter gone wrong can't be ignored. Now before you go and burn me at the stake, I am NOT trying to imply for a moment that that makes what happened justified.

Simply that as transgender people we can't have this viewpoint that the whole world needs to change to suit us, by force (which is what the government becoming involved would be).

The transgender community is a LARGE contributer to the rejection of TS's by mainstream society. Which is why I stay far faaaaar away from it and have no expectations of anyone to be informed of TG issues when I meet them.

We're a minority, an exceptional minority, one that can't even agree amongst itself on what to call each other.

Again, it's really horrible that this person died, it is, but if we're going to discuss this situation, I would like make my view known that I believe the transgender community, in its hyper-acceptance of every kind of gender variant behavior and you-must-conform-to-our-views attitude to mainstream society, is a large contributer to our lack of a good public image.

As for the comments on the news article. They're ignorant internet trolls, they're wrong and in being wrong due to ignorance, I don't really hate them for it.

And I certainly wouldn't hold it against ANYONE for having a negative attitude to the transgender community.

Hmm.  You make some valid points, but I don't think it's an issue of conformity.  I think it's more an issue of awareness--most people still don't understand that our situation is about gender identity not sexuality--and that is where the education must begin.

It continues to sadden and disturb me how often I hear of these tragic trans deaths most of which turn out to be ruled as hate crimes. I do have to disagree with some of the posts here about appealing to the government for more help. The government already has a federal hate crimes law and I believe the state of New York does as well. Guess, what? That didn't save Amanda. Hate crime laws are very similar to restraining orders. They make an action illegal without actually preventing the action. Plenty of people violate restraining orders and commit murder on those people. If a person is planning on comitting murder a hate crime law won't stop them. Same with a building posted "no guns" that won't deter someone who is already planning on shooting up the place.

What does stop these crimes are two things: education and self-defense. While none of us are invincible, it does appear that a lot of these crimes could have been prevented. Nobody is allowed in my apartment unless I know and trust them. Even then I have guns and other weapons stashed in so many different places (if I don't have one on me already) that it would be quite tough to be attacked. Not to mention I don't let anyone in my house out of sight for long if at all. Even if I go to bed with someone I just picked up at a nightclub (yes, it happens to a lot of us), I will not fall asleep so soundly as to allow the person to get a drop on me. I may trust them enough to have sex, to have them over at my place, etc. but I don't trust anyone with my life except me.

I have many trans friends who don't take their safety even close to as seriously. Some have been robbed, assaulted, and raped during times in which they were unarmed, defenseless, and had their guard down. Again, nobody is invincible here. We do need to make sure that our tax dollars are fully being used to investigate and prosecute these crimes such as what happened to Amanda. That aside, the government cannot and should not be everywhere at all times making sure all people are safely tucked in at night. We need to wake up and start protecting ourselves and our friends. This is simple common sense. As horrible as these tragedies are, we need to use them as examples to learn from because if we don't learn from them, it tragically could hit closer to home.

Federal laws don't protect us at all til ENDA. Only private employer laws (in the workplace) or state laws.

): poor sod.

New York State protects gay and lesbian people under its hate crimes law but trans people are not included.  We were thrown out of the nondiscrimination bill in 2002 while being promised they "would come back" for us.  Still waiting . . .

Amanda was murdered in my old neighborhood, a block and a half away from where I went to the YMCA as a kid.  It was only a bit further from the 104th precinct police station.  Somehow, having walked those streets so many years before, I feel even more devastated about this news.  It makes her violent death much more real to me.

That's why I think it's despicable for someone to use this news as an excuse to bash transgender people.  I think it's awful that I see that kind of thing not only in the Daily News comments sections but here as well.  Making guesses about Amanda's life and then using the assumptions to denigrate a group of people should be something beneath us, simply because we know how much damage it can do, how much it can hurt people.  Sadly, I see it's not. 

Fair warning:  if this thread continues in that vein it will be locked and posts will be deleted.

New York City may have its own version of hate crimes law that probably includes gender expression/identity but since murder is a state crime, I don't know if it would apply here.  I suppose it might.  That said, as was noted, no laws can assuage the grief and pain of Amanda's family and friends.  NYC also has a very strict and restrictive firearms law making it almost impossible for regular citizens to legally own, let alone carry, firearms.  An illegal gun can get you a mandatory prison sentence, a sentence of torture and abuse, if not death, for a pre-op trans woman.

This is yet another trans woman of color who will have to be added to the list for next November.  I will grieve for her again at that time, as I do now for her, her friends and her family.

From later reports it appears that the Police are looking for her boyfriend. 

This is sad news 

I find that reading the comments section is especially hard when it comes to trans people as victims. I have always heard that we're everyone. We are your sisters, brothers, cousins, etc. I was glad to see some people stepping up and reminding the haters that Amanda was a person not someone who is insignificant.

QuoteFederal laws don't protect us at all til ENDA. Only private employer laws (in the workplace) or state laws.

Still an illusion. If someone wants to violently attack and/or murder you, hate crimes laws will not stop that and certainly ENDA won't. As more news has now come out it appears that someone she was dating had strangled her. Aside from that, it appears we don't have any more information. I still stand by what I said, however, that we need to do our best to prevent more of these deaths by learning how to defend and protect ourselves.

As to Emelye's comments about people here bashing transgender people in this thread, I don't remember seeing that anywhere and it sounded a bit like you were accusing me of being the one since you were responding to some of my comments. If you think asking people to learn self-defense and protection is "making assumptions" or "bashing" then you are severely misguided. I did not make any assumptions about Amanda's death and I hope that anybody who believed differently would read what I said more carefully. Tragic situations like this make the need for discussion of these issues extremely important. I can't make people do anything but I strive to make sure that my trans friends as well as my own self do our best to make sure we are not victims. That aside nobody here has any business questioning my own experiences that have demonstrated time and time again that a lot of other trans people I know do not take their safety seriously and throw caution to the winds. This is not bashing, this is simple observation. If I didn't care about their safety I wouldn't be making a stink about it in the first place.

 

NO laws ever protect you from those you love and/or invite into your life.  And despite the paranoia about stranger danger, and random attacks, the record shows that like AZ or GA, these people knew, if not were intimate with their killers.  No laws protect you, and by the way, neither do weapons, as you are at home or close to it, at a party with 'friends', and seemingly in love.

Quote from: Ashley4214 on March 31, 2010, 07:13:50 PM

The transgender community is a LARGE contributer to the rejection of TS's by mainstream society. Which is why I stay far faaaaar away from it and have no expectations of anyone to be informed of TG issues when I meet them.

We're a minority, an exceptional minority, one that can't even agree amongst itself on what to call each other.

I would like make my view known that I believe the transgender community, in its hyper-acceptance of every kind of gender variant behavior and you-must-conform-to-our-views attitude to mainstream society, is a large contributer to our lack of a good public image.

I was wondering, "hyperacceptance of every kind of gender", what do you mean by that?

Quote from: kimberrrly on April 06, 2010, 11:02:33 AM
I was wondering, "hyperacceptance of every kind of gender", what do you mean by that?

I didn't say that.

What I said was "hyper-acceptance of every kind of gender variant behavior and you-must-conform-to-our-views attitude to mainstream society".

Which is something I don't want to go too far into because I don't want to offend anyone, but also because it's a bit hard to pin down.

Basically I mean the insistence by some in the transgender community that they should not have to conform to any expectations, even one's of their target gender, and that the rest of society should change to suit them. And the various behaviors used to express dissatisfaction at societies expectations.

This is really something I don't want to get into, because these views don't conform to the transgender party line, so to speak. And can only serve to get people mad at me. 

Also I'm referring to the various kinds of legal action attempting to FORCE people to accept us whether they like it or not. Not all, but many.

Quote from: Mia B on April 01, 2010, 09:46:59 AM
I find that reading the comments section is especially hard when it comes to trans people as victims.

And not just "as victims".  Even when a transsexual person accomplishes something, such as being appointed to a position of responsibility in the federal government, the haters are out in force in the comments section.

I got to a point once at which I seriously considered going back into my shell just because of what I was reading.  I've never encountered a problem, but knowing those people are out there can be frightening.

You right on trans people being dragged down Kay.

Even when a trans person does accomplish something positive no one wants to hear about that. They want the scandal and side show drama that they believe we should be relegated to. I am a woman and will always be one. I will not let these people make me feel inferior, scared, or less-than!

Quote from: Ashley4214 on April 06, 2010, 02:58:06 PM
I didn't say that.

What I said was "hyper-acceptance of every kind of gender variant behavior and you-must-conform-to-our-views attitude to mainstream society".

Which is something I don't want to go too far into because I don't want to offend anyone, but also because it's a bit hard to pin down.

Basically I mean the insistence by some in the transgender community that they should not have to conform to any expectations, even one's of their target gender, and that the rest of society should change to suit them. And the various behaviors used to express dissatisfaction at societies expectations.

This is really something I don't want to get into, because these views don't conform to the transgender party line, so to speak. And can only serve to get people mad at me. 

Also I'm referring to the various kinds of legal action attempting to FORCE people to accept us whether they like it or not. Not all, but many.

Hi There!

I agree this is  a subject for another topic, but I was curious. Thank you for your reply its somewhat clearer now Partly I do understand now where you are coming from..

Love