Hi All,

One of the projects I am working on is a national Camp Out round up for the TS and IS community.  What has been debated is if we want to make this for just the TS and IS community or make it a roundup including the GBL community.  I would like your in put!

I am not asking if a person is going to attend, just if you were  to attend what your feelings are on this being a TS/IS only, or GBLTI community event.  I appreciate your voices on this matter.

I know this can be a sensative subject. Please realize I am not talking about TS/IS people that are also GBL. ( Thought I would throw that in there for clarity)

Peace,
Taylor

For me, I prefer to spend my time outside of the GLBIT community for the most part because I don't like being reminded that I'm TS.  So I chose the GLBIT option (#2) because I could be around non-TS/IS as well.

Melissa

Melissa,
Thanks for responding, hope others will follow and let me know their thoughts!

Peace
Taylor

No problem.  I thought my reason for my poll choice would prove to be more useful to you.

Melissa

I would love it if it were publicized as an event at which anyone is welcome as long as they were supportive of the entire trans community, including its GBL portion.  I don't like the idea of anything being promoted in such a way as to exclude anyone, as is done at the Michigan music festival that causes so much controversy every summer.  We need strength in numbers and unity, not exclusion.

(Ouch!  got a splinter from the soap box)
helen

Quote from: Melissa on October 18, 2006, 06:11:58 PM
No problem.  I thought my reason for my poll choice would prove to be more useful to you.

Melissa

My Poll choice may be of no use to you Taylor   I chose number 1.  Being a woman I hate being considered TS, but it is difficult to shake that term.  I don't believe that it does any good to include the GLB community as the only similarity is the harassment, and equal rights issues that affect both groups.  TS need to start working together for us to get anywhere, but our only downfall is the need for many of us to become stealth.

Steph

Taylor, my vote wouldn't be useful to you either.  I try to live my life as stealth as possible for a number of reasons; however, if I were to attend, I would prefer it to be a TS/IS only event.


tinkerbell

I voted #3 which also isn't very useful as I doubt I would actually attend such an event.  I am stealth here but would not have much of a problem going somewhere many miles away from that standpoint.  However, I think it would be much more comfortable to be with others in the TS community and those who fully support us instead of being in the midst of a great throng of people.

Satin

I chose #3,  Id perfer it be TS and IS only..... even the GLB comunity ostrisizes us, well, atleast me... I swear Id recieved more acceptance from homophobic bikers than I ever would from those people, but Id be glad to have those who accept us along........

dont know if that helps, but thats how I feel

Hi Taylor...

I hope you are well honey.

Hmmm..... I have never liked being lumped into the tag GLBT, Now classing myself as a hetrosexual Female.

Why not just label it a camp for anyone with Gender problems?

Buffy

One more thing I have noticed is people are posting about how the GLB community hasn't been very good to them.  Well, for me, they have been nothing but wonderful and supportive.  You don't need to understand me to be supportive.

Quote from: Buffy on October 19, 2006, 05:59:20 AM
Now classing myself as a hetrosexual Female.

Why not just label it a camp for anyone with Gender problems?

Why?  Do you have problems with your gender right now?

Melissa

Hi there Everyone,

I voted #1. I would be far more comfortable with like minded people. I don't know anyone that is gay or lesbian but I do believe that, for the most part, they are comfortable in the bodies they were born with. I would like to share more of my time with people like me, who are in the process or have gone through the process of changing their bodies to meeet their visions and dreams of who they are. As accepting as the GLB community may or may not be, I'm not really sure they would truly understand what we are and want. But, I know we understand what we are going through.

I truly believe that is the best support we can offer to one another, understandiong.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.   

Genevieve

Hi All,

Well from the responses you can now see why I posted the poll lol. 

I am going to make some statements here, but first want you all to keep sharing and talking this thing out, I want badly to hear all that your feeling before I speak up and say a word. Thanks for those of you participating in this friendly exchange. 

Peace
Taylor

Hi Taylor,
I don't care who comes as long as they are respectful of our status.
They have to be comfortable with TS/IS people.

Your own words were "Camp Round Up for the TS/IS community", based on that I would think it would be just TS/IS people.

I have many gay and lesbian friends, we all face "some" of the same issues, but each of us also have some very different issues we face each day.  We need to support each other, but that does not mean that all functions need to be open to everyone.

Sarah L.

Great poll Taylor...lots of different responses.  Maybe some follow-up topics for further discussion?

I also chose option 1.  If this were just going to be a bunch of folks out camping, I have no problem with come one, come all (as long as we all treat each other with respect).  If it turns out to be an "event", that is where I have an issue. 

While many in the GLBTI community support the TI's...the main media tends to focus only on the GL parts (with an occasional nod to the B folks).  Part of that is our fault, as most of us want to live as close to full-stealth as possible.  It is hard to get national spokespeople when all we are trying to do is blend in and live normal lives.  It would be a shame for all your hard work for the TS/IS community, and the purpose of the Camp Round Up, to be overshadowed (from a news reporting viewpoint) by non TS/IS coverage.

Just my penny's worth (it's half-off day at the thought store)

.....Laurie

I agree with Melissa I have had good success with GBL community!  Whether that's being hit or or befriended or otherwise.  I have a few gay and one lesbian and a few bi friends are they are all good stock at least in my opinion.
the party I'd go either way if it was near me or close enough?
I would not care is it was close ended or had the other communities involved!
Although i would note that making it a private or secluded party would suit me better or make me feel safer or better?  Like rental or at a big resort or confernece area where you can sort of stay semi-private as oppsoed to a big community park!  I say it all the time people are mean and there are mean people everywhere!
Anyway either way woud be fine i wonder if this was the GBL community as they gather a lot, would they ahve the same issues or debates we are having?
hmmmm

Hi All,

Yes many good points and various views have been hit on here.  I am going to attempt to respond to some various issues here so this might get long. But I hope that everyone will take the time to read this and respond accordingly.

1.   Would the GBL community have need to discuss this? Not in my opinion. They have much participation from their community and our low numbers have little to do with what their goals are. Including the TI's is really in many respects a political move, and quite honestly from their side a smart one at that. This is not a put down in anyway, it is just a simple strategic fact.  Now if one goes into many GBLT sites and newspapers, take a look at how much is actually devoted to TI issues, 2-5% in most cases??

2. The camp ground is a private facility. You can see some pictures of it on our website if you would like. I am not going to post that link until someone tells me it is okay lol. But I think it is.  The camp ground will be closed to the public for this week long round up.
People will be able to feel very free in this environment.  There are tent and camper sites, a huge lake with fishing, fish pier, ( depending on weather a real nice pool), Pavilion for live music and activities, biking and hiking paths that go for miles, night fishing is allowed, boats, and more. 

3. At this point there is little question that the media will not be allowed in.  We want families and individuals to feel 100% safe and anonymous.  This is in the back woods one hr from I-95 and about 30 minutes from I-40.  The owners are 100% TS/IS and anything else friendly!  Privacy has been assured. 

4.  The reason for the debate with involving the GBL is due to some of the points that have been brought up here. 
     
    A. The need to be stealth has been used as ( in my opinion) often an excuse to not participate and give support to the TI community needs.  There is so much that needs to be done, and while a person can be in the front, as leaders a person can only lead if they have a group behind them. A member of a group can be and often is anonymous!! BUT many don't offer their support in area's that they can.   If you have a talent, a contact, access to equipment, etc. or yes even small funds donated, all this adds up and makes a difference. It is often through collective efforts that these things are successful.  Collective within the TI population.

    B. There are people as Stephanie voiced (and she is not alone), which believe that the merge of GBL and TI issues should never be. It is believed that we need to stand alone to acheive our needs, and our needs are indeed different. It also is believed by many and I do tend to agree personally with some of these views, that by merging with the GBL community damage is being done. I will not go into that with detail here.  Point being there are those that want it very seperate. BUT to have it seperate then we need to have people actively involved.

   C.  Lets be totally honest here. With the GBL involved even if say PFLAG or another GBL group sponsers this, it does not have to be over shadowed and called anything other than a TS/IS activity. I have spoken at events that were for IS issues that were sponsered by the Harvey Milk Foundation, PFLAG etc. and it was not a "Gay" event, it was an educational event within the IS community for the educational/public awareness.

   D.  We need numbers, we need people to show up for this. The bottom line is to close down the entire camp ground and rent the entire space out, we will need several things to occur to make this productive.  Now can the TS/IS community pull this off without the outside support and participation?  This is a real valid question!

The reason I have posted this is because I need to hear from all of you. Your voice is important!! And I appreciate all of you that have responded!!
5. We are making this where people can travel in from all over the country during Oct. 5th - Oct 14th  2007 allowing for varing schedules, and allowing for time to save funds to attend. Now those that want to get involved can also contact me, we have needs that you can fill without loosing your privacy!

NOTE:

It has been suggested by a susans member that we have a susans campsite section so that all of you that come in from Susans have an area together and we can sure accomidate that if you all are interested. Let me know. 

Peace,
Taylor

okay since i was up at 6:00am today and i am jolted with an excess of caffiene I will try:
A.  I agree stealth is good less public disclosure the better.  I guess all could contribute some ways?  although i do not like the idea of cooking chili for hundreds of people?  I am a chef!  Surely we could do soemthing with the food to kick it up a notch!
B.  I agree ( gender issues stay alone not merging with GBL group) the more i think about it the more i think that even less is more i apply this to a lot of things in life as a group we gender be less populated than GBL but less populated and more focused in one direction or set of goals.  Numbers make more sense to me thinking about it that way?  LaurieO is a computer genius maybe she has a program that can spit out a bunch of good looking useless numbers for us to haggle over, hehe.. Sorry had to try some humor here!
C.  Agree with what you typed i think i understood it, keep it educational and all but try not and let a larger group rename or overshadow it?  right?
D.  This could be an issue?  What kind of numbers do you think would be at this?  I honestly do not know there have not been any real get togethers around my area and i never really made the time to try and attend either?
so if i would try and plan and commit to this event would we be looking at hundreds?
Note:  I like the susan's idea not to segregate groups within groups but to at least have an established area where people that have talked or interacted can meet one another without having to try and search each other out?  cool idea!
I'll keep checking the post!

To All,

I have a family emergency that I must attend to out of town and just got the call as I was getting ready to write this morning in here and respond to Ricki.  Please keep the conversation going and any ideas, things you feel you can contribute etc. I would really like to hear from you. I want to hear your voices, and have some of your energy put into this!!  Anyone can feel free to PM me, I cannot promise but I will try and get back to you all within the next few days.  I will be back and forth from a hospital located in a different town, but will get back to you all as soon as possible!! Don't stop writing your ideas and thoughts they are very valuable!

Peace,

Taylor

PS Ricki, the camp ground can hold over 500 tents/campers, number of people can go as well over a few thousand. How many we actually fill the place with, depends, we shall see. There will be a registration period starting soon.