Recently I went on a road trip with a friend of mine. Almost the first thing she felt the need to talk to me about is my girlfriend, who is transsexual and beginning the journey of transition. She showed a surprising amount of hostility and personal animosity towards her, attacking her appearance, saying she "doesn't try hard enough" and generally holding her to standards she would never hold a cis woman to. For example, because my gf doesn't like makeup and feels comfortable enough to sometimes wear jeans and a tshirt (a fitted girl's tshirt, mind you) on the weekends when we visit that somehow she's a "failed" transsexual. I wear jeans and t shirts most of the time and am generally more "masculine" than she is, and I don't hear anyone attacking my gender presentation.

I explained some of the difficulties of transition, including the fact that we are extremely poor and don't have much money for clothes. Most of my gf's wardrobe has been trolled from thrift shops and closeout sales, or sewn by me to fit her. It isn't huge, but it is growing, and yes sometimes she does wear boy clothes because she *has nothing else to wear* but if you look when she does she always has a bit of feminine flair (colorful tights under ripped jeans, cute jewelry and hairstyles). She is beginning to finally find her own style and gain confidence, but she's not going to transform into a fashionista overnight. My "friend" kept interrupting me and saying she should just try harder and expressing a complete lack of sympathy.

I haven't told my gf about this conversation because I know it would hurt her. She considers this woman her friend, and we all see each other on a regular basis. Because of this and a couple of other (unrelated) conversations since I don't really want to hang out with/talk to her anymore, but her husband is one of my gf's few friends in the area, and we go over there most weekends for tabletop roleplays. It's one of my gf's few opportunities to get out of the apartment for something other than classes (we live in a horribly boring area) and really important to her.

We're only in the area until I get my associates degree this December, when we'll be off to greener pastures. (Part of the reason she decided to start transitioning here; it's a temporary pitstop, and allows her to get past some of the more awkward stages and develop some self-confidence with relatively little at stake). Should I just grit my teeth and talk to my "friend" as little as possible until we move on? I don't want to make a big scene and cause drama, but I just don't feel comfortable around her anymore. She disagrees with my gf at every opportunity and harshly and I don't know how to deal with the situation

Wow - I feel for you both. Some of what I write can be a little straight from the hip, so please bear in mind that none of it is meant as a criticism.

As someone who is both very longterm postop myself and has a postop life partner I can easily see complexities of this from both POV's. It horrid being the one caught in the middle, pulled both ways, and not sure which way to jump for fear of making things worse.

I first transitioned as a child... then was forced by a therapist to detransition for a while in my late teens before finally in my early twenties going for it properly, at which point I also had SRS.

I have to say when I was transitioning properly my mother was my biggest ally. If anyone started doing the sorts of things that you describe she was absolutely not afraid at all to make a scene and tell them where to get off! And though you say you are fairly masculine, my mother was bordering on Andogyne herself - so when she really went for it people backed off jolly fast I can tell you!

I think the most important thing is to be seen to support your partner. People often try to push the boundaries to see what they can get away with. If they get their heads chewed off early on then they stop - sadly this woman seems to have been allowed to get up a head of steam which makes it more diffcult.

Having said that I'm now going to immediately qualify it - I wonder if you have perhaps stopped to wonder WHY this woman is behaving in this way? Is she perhaps feeling threatened by your GF having a "bond" with her husband? I think there is a very strong chance that that might even be part of the answer.

In a funny way she may actually be paying your gf the ultimate female compliment by reacting to her like a potential female rival for her husbands affections. - just a thought! If so that gives you an easy way to explain why you are feeling uncomfortable - but use the situation to build up your Gfs confidence by pointing out that she is ultimately only getting this flak because the woman is feeling a bit threatened...

Others may have a different view - but my advice, for what it is worth, is that telling your gf the truth about why you are feeling uncomfortable, and then together finding some constructive way to work through the situation and reign in this woman's critical nature, will probably be the best course for the long term.

Yeah sometimes it might be tough for your partner to face what other people really think - but the fact is you have to be tough to survive and be successful as a postop woman. Personal opinion if someone is going to give up just because some idiot calls them a name then they are probably not yet in the right place mentally to handle transition. The best way to reach that place is not to hide from reality but to learn to confront and overcome it.

After the best part of 30 years postop I live in the open, with no fear of what people say or think of me, because I know who I am and I know that I did the right thing for me! I know that I am a woman whatever anyone may think, and because I really do know that down to my bones, other people who might otherwise be critical sense that no one can take that from me, so nobody tries. In a sense I'm now enough of a woman not to care if someone wants to delude themsleves that I am a man!

If you want to keep this woman as a friend, you should tell her how much those comments bother you. If you tell her it bothers you and she doesn't care, drop her.

I am beyond ready to drop her, this is just the straw that broke the donkey's back, so to speak. I haven't, ironically enough, because I'm afraid of causing drama for my gf.

She and her husband are in a polyamorous relationship, so it seems unlikely that jealousy is the main factor. It could be that she feels threatened because of gf's perceived gender-ambiguousness, but it seems hypocritical of her seeing as she is bisexual/pansexual herself and has always said that if her husband has any feelings in such a direction he is more than encouraged to pursue them. Gf, in addition, is very loudly a lesbian with no interest in him.

My gal is at a really delicate point in her transition, she is finally building up enough self confidence to face the world on a regular basis (going out to the library, getting a manicure, going out to eat, etc.) and I'm worried if I tell her what this woman said it will send her right back into her shell. She knows that we argued about some things and that I'm fed up with her though.

Urgh, this feels more complicated than it needs to be.

ETA: I just talked to someone who knows us both about the situation, and had yet another complication pointed out to me. As I mentioned, they are a poly couple. There was a point where they were hoping that I would be their "third" or at least my "friend" 's girlfriend despite the fact that I showed no interest toward either of them except on a friendly basis. She still flirts with me, but I always assumed it was jokingly. It seems I may be wrong.

Aha. Now maybe we get to the root of it. I told you I thought it might be worth asking the question WHY.

This woman seems to be trying, in a very clumsy and ugly way, to make a pass at you. She obviously thinks she can tear you away from your, what she sees as "damaged", mate by criticising and nit picking.

To use an analogy from nature (so don't get hung up on the gender used in this idea) She is acting like a preadtory pride male, moving in to kill a wounded pride male and and steal his mate. You see it all the time on things like discovery channel.

I do understand the bit about wanting you gf to gain in confidence and not wanting her to go back in her shell though. I just think that she and you are the only really important people here. I hope you can work this out and I admire your determination to think this through carefully before taking action. It is as you said a very delicate situation.

In the final analysis I still think that eventually you may have to tell your GF something of the truth. My personal feeling is that the best thing to do might be to give some thought as to how you might do so in the least damaging way. For exmaple instead of telling her about all the criticism perhaps just saying the you and the woman have fallen out because she was trying to pressure you into doing something you didn't want to do....

I don't know, none of that may be very helpful but it's the best I can manage. I do hope you succeed in working it out though.

Jenny x.

Quote from: aerosolchild on April 11, 2010, 06:36:13 PM
My gal is at a really delicate point in her transition...

You have been wise to back down.

The situation that you have described seems to provide your girlfriend with two conversation partners (albeit not genuine friends, perhaps) and a weekly outing, affording her some normalcy during the delicate early period of her transition.

If you leave the situation as it stands, your girlfriend will likely maintain her precarious social position during a period when she is not prepared to engage in such a dispute, especially a public and personal dispute centered on her own gender and transitional efforts.  You and your girlfriend may maintain the agreeable status quo until your departure from the area, and it is unlikely that this woman will bring her case directly.  If you raise a challenge, her transition may then become the center of a controversy, and it is likely that your girlfriend will be humiliated by the conflict.  In defending her, you may only expose her to unnecessary grief.

You cannot win all contests, but you can occasionally deny victory to your opponent.

- N

Nimetön, that was my thought process exactly. Especially since our situation is so temporary, it seems best just to grin and bear it.

If she brings it up again though, she will get the smackdown of her life. I don't lose my ->-bleeped-<- often, but when I do it's a spectacle to behold.

I guess more than this one chick being an ->-bleeped-<-, I'm pissed about the general trend I've been seeing where trans girls are judged at a different standard than cis girls. Never has my right to call myself a woman been challenged, even though I don't pluck or wax my eyebrows, refuse to shave my armpits, and am usually dressed in a unisex shirt and jeans. Oh, and I don't wear makeup often. But if a trans girl does any of the above? She *obviously* doesn't want it bad enough and should try harder! It's a stupid double standard and it makes my teeth grind. It's also something that I've complained about before IN FRONT OF THE WOMAN WHO WAS SAYING THESE THINGS! Argh! /end rant

Not that I need to tell you folks this stuff, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about and how stupid it is even better than I do

On a happier note, gf's mom has started using female pronouns to refer to her and giving her makeup tips. This is an exciting thing, and makes me hate the world a little less.

Quote from: aerosolchild on April 14, 2010, 06:02:14 PM
If she brings it up again though, she will get the smackdown of her life.

In so doing, you would cause the controversy that you seek to avoid.

I suggest that you wait until after moving day, then pull the trigger.

- N

Just tell her to quit being stupid.
Plain and simple.

Ask her if she's a failed woman for not wearing girly-girl clothes all the time, and/or whether or not it's anyone else's business what clothes she wears.
Tell her that she's not in charge of anyone else's wardrobe, let alone your SO's and that if she can't act like a sane person then you just have no interest in talking to her any more.

Direct, to the point, and simple.

oma ner padowu gahda ili on