I was reading Jesse's story and It made me realize that we can be sexually assaulted. I guess I always thought the worst thing to happen would be getting beat up ,I mean I know murders happen but they don't happen as often and I figured that If an assailant considers us to be just a bunch of ->-bleeped-<-s wouldn't rape make them gay? I don't know this is crazy have any of you dealt with this?

Anyone can be raped. I don't usually talk about this because it is intensely private stuff and I don't like hanging my dirty washing out. You have to understand that there is an inevitable (perhaps illogical - but when were feelings ever logical) feeling of shame associated with having been a rape victim. So most of us will never tell you.

It has happened to me twice - once preoperatively when I was at school - that was trumatic and involved the use of threats and coercion. It took me a long time to even talk to anyone about it. I was 15 at the time and I was fighting hard daily to express my inner female and unusually enough for the 1970's largely winning. The school allowed me considerable lattitude in my gender expression. Unfortunately some older homosexual boys decided that my "difference" made it ok to "use" me. The result was that I was lured into some nearby woods and taken.

The second time was postop - that was only a "technical" rape in that I was too drunk to say no or to resist because my date had spiked my drink. That was less traumatic because at least he was using the "right" bits. The irony was that if he had asked me properly I probably would have gone with him anyway. What made me feel dirty and used was that he had removed my choice and placed me in a position where I was powerless. It made me realise that for some men sex is not about love and romance it's about having physical domination and power over the woman they choose.

If you pass well enough most men won't see you as a male, and you certainly shouldn't be seeing yourself as that or why would you be having SRS? Therefore the question of this being a homosexual encounter  simply does not arise. PERIOD. These days I would defy anyone to intuit that I am not a natal female based on my genitals. Prior to my update surgery the result was, to my eyes, less natural but surprisingly many men can be oddly ignorant of female anatomy.

As to how you deal with it, it is just like any woman.

You have to deal with the feeling of being violated, invaded, rendered powerless. You feel used and dirty. You tell yourself all sorts of reasons why it was YOUR fault. (I'm still doing it actaully - if you look at the school rape in my mind it's still my fault for having been born different) You wash shower and douche for a week to try and get the scent and feel of him off your body. You cry a lot and feel helpless and vulnerable. You lose a little bit of your trust in strangers, and then if you are going to survive and not become a victim eventually you have to tell yourself to get out there and face the world again. Otherwise you will have let him win, and scum like that don't deserve to win!

So slowly you rebuild your trust in people. if you are lucky you find a patient non threatening relationship with someone who is totally devoted to you and you slowly put the pieces back together.

You are very lucky today in that the law is now much more sympathetic to trans people. Back in my day we weren't yet at the place where society was prepared to admit that we were the sex which we presented as. Therefore a transwoman who was raped was routinely denied access to legal redresss on the basis that Rape required an organ which we could not have because we were male, namely a vagina. Even if you stripped in front of the court they would maintain that your vagina was a lagal fiction. It did not exist IN LAW. You were also routinely denied access to any counseling because rape support groups only dealt with women and you weren't legally a woman! So you had to do it all on your own. It became a case of learn ways to survive or go under.

These days happily in most countries the culture has changed and you now get the support and legal backup that you need.

Bottom line question. Is fear of rape a good reason to avoid transition?

EMPHATIC ANSWER ABSOLUTELY NOT! Being raped is not pleasant, but, as long as my life was not put in danger I would go through it several times over to gain the peace that I have gained from having the right bodily parts. In the final analysis I try to look at it as part of learning the full life experience that some women go through. Far from destroying me I have worked to find ways to let it make me stronger. There was simply no way that I was going to let either experience stop me from being the woman I am otherwise I would have let the bda guys win, and as I said they don't deserve to win.

jenny is very wise listen to her...
i placed myself in that position so do i blame myself i do. i have to wonder if once it happens if you ever "get over it" i didnt nights when its raining and cold bring it back which it was when i posted perhaps thats why i used alcohal to cope "mistake" never use alcohal to cope it only makes it worse.
as far as legality goes she is right on those points as well my attack if it was investigated at all was investigated as a shooting rape on a male was not a possible charge in 1980 had he not shot me they wouldnt have even taken my statement.
do not let it stop you if transition is for you i did for thirty years that time is lost now
jessica

I'm sorry, I knew It could happen I just thought it was unlikely. I'm also sorry I asked It was insensitive it was hard just getting past the first few lines so I can't even imagine going through it.I guess reading Jesse's story made me wonder and I posted before thinking I'm sorry.Oh and I wasn't saying that I think of myself or other transitioning women as gay men I was just saying that when these hate crimes happen it's usually because they think of us as gay men who just took it  step a step further.

tori hun no need to appoligize your question was lagitamate look at it this way now your aware it can happen you can strive to make sure you are careful not to put yourself in that stuation etc.
hugs hun
jessica

thanks Jesse .

Hi Tori,

Rapists don't really care about if their victim is male, female or vegetable. They can justify anything. They do not have morals so any argument about them is irrelevant. They wish to dominate and hurt. They often succeed for may years after their enjoyment.

A particular problem for TG women is that we have not been brought up in a society that teaches girls to be girl safe. We have often been brought up as 'you're  a man' so prove it. And so many of us have tried that route. But once we start presenting as female publicly we are predator meat. We trust people who should not be trusted, we may go to places where as 'guys' we were safe, as women we are not. We may be regarded by GG as something to amuse themselves with, yea lets get our boyfriends to show her how it's done. It'll be a hoot. She isn't female, just a poofter, anyway so probably will like a good F***

The rule is be careful. Live your life but think through situations. Many things that woman do naturally we do not. Do you go to your car with the key ready in your hand? Do you walk in the lightened part of the street. If alone leaving a movie etc do you wait until a group of woman walk past and join
them, and if they glance just say I'm walking to my car with you girls. Guess what they will not flinch, probably end up having a coffee and being friends .

Do you park your car under lights. Do you tell friends where you are going and call them when you come back. Do you tell your friends about your knew guy. Girls do it all the time both for social networking but also for information. Oh I've heard about that guy  he went out with a friend of a friend and...

The aftermath of a rape is quite simple. You either live or die. If you live you will have injuries. They may be as simple as torn flesh and smashed body. They may be STD, which may include be HIV or/ and Hepatitis. You will have to go through the embarrassment of seeking help. You will lie there while (really nice people BTW) use a rape kit on you. You will describe and explain your sexual identity and sexual life history.

You may have been tortured, in many ways from extremes that may not be survivable in the long term to others. They may have castrated you. They may have inserted objects.  There is doubt that that would not just say Wham Bam Thank You Mam .
In Jessica's case it tried to kill her. As an incredibly strong woman she survived.

But the future is always is stolen.

In any abuse I think that is the worst part.

From kiddies who have been abused to POW's who have been abused;It's all the same. You never truly get over it. We live it and survive and celebrate. We are unbelievably strong.

But we have to be careful.

Remember. Rapists, if they get caught and prosecuted (and it wasn't your fault); will get a few years in prison where they will happily rape a few boyfriends. Get food three times a day and a bunk bed with a bum boy.

You won't.

Sorry to be dark


Cindy

Quote from: CindyJames on April 28, 2010, 05:17:08 AM
A particular problem for TG women is that we have not been brought up in a society that teaches girls to be girl safe. We have often been brought up as 'you're  a man' so prove it. And so many of us have tried that route. But once we start presenting as female publicly we are predator meat. We trust people who should not be trusted, we may go to places where as 'guys' we were safe, as women we are not. We may be regarded by GG as something to amuse themselves with, yea lets get our boyfriends to show her how it's done. It'll be a hoot. She isn't female, just a poofter, anyway so probably will like a good F***

The rule is be careful. Live your life but think through situations. Many things that woman do naturally we do not. Do you go to your car with the key ready in your hand? Do you walk in the lightened part of the street. If alone leaving a movie etc do you wait until a group of woman walk past and join
them, and if they glance just say I'm walking to my car with you girls. Guess what they will not flinch, probably end up having a coffee and being friends .

Do you park your car under lights. Do you tell friends where you are going and call them when you come back. Do you tell your friends about your knew guy. Girls do it all the time both for social networking but also for information. Oh I've heard about that guy  he went out with a friend of a friend and...

Wow. I know I didn't exactly absorb all of the "how to be a girl" lessons, but seeing it written out explicitly like that just overwhelms me with how much I missed. I never did any of that. I never even knew I was supposed to. I'm aware of my physical vulnerability, but I don't do anything about it, beyond trusting my friends to have my back if something happens (that's backfired twice, as it turns out it was the "friends" I should have been worrying about).

F***, now my eyes are f'ing leaking. If I'd known this stuff, could I have prevented...? How much more is there that I don't know? If there's this much in just the area of safety around strangers, there have to be thousands of little lessons about how to behave as a woman that I never picked up...is that why I can't 'pass' among women? Is that why I've always been targeted by the alpha girls for bullying and shunning? Why they set me up to be...f***. I get it.

Quote from: tori319 on April 28, 2010, 03:54:19 AM
I'm sorry, I knew It could happen I just thought it was unlikely. I'm also sorry I asked It was insensitive it was hard just getting past the first few lines so I can't even imagine going through it.I guess reading Jesse's story made me wonder and I posted before thinking I'm sorry.Oh and I wasn't saying that I think of myself or other transitioning women as gay men I was just saying that when these hate crimes happen it's usually because they think of us as gay men who just took it  step a step further.

Tori don't beat yourself up for asking an honest question.

And please don't feel upset that I gave you an honest answer. Under the circumstances I was happy to do so.

My whole point was that we have to learn how to survive these things, and learning that, and indeed the mental toughness and resilience that goes with it, is, for me, as much a part of being female as anything else.

Sadly it isn't a remote possibility. When you are postop, and as I have been, were postop as a young woman, you are just as lilely to become prey as anyone else.

You just have to adjust your thinking and behave in a sensible way as any woman would.

Listening to cindy I realise how lucky I was. I wasn't injured, just frightened and humiliated. It still wasn't a pleasant experience.

Postop I haven't experienced the kinds of social attitudes which cindy graphically described and I think because I started presenting as female a lot earlier than most, my mother drummed into me the basics of staying safe on the streets, and yet I STILL managed to become a victim. Which is just to show that when you are female the reality is that it can happen to anyone.

As it happens I try deliberately not to let myself feel intimidated. I won't, for example, let it stop me going out at night, But I do take care, and I do always stay alert and aware of my surroundings.

Cindy is right, you never forget, but I don't agree that you never get over it. You can get over it but it takes time, and you have to find ways of mentally fighting back and reasserting your right to be the person that you want to be. A large part of that, for me, came in the wake of the first and most traumatic rape, when i consciously used the anger i felt to drive me on to getting medical help and ultimately to getting SRS.

The fact that it happened again, set me back a way. That did steal a part of my future. If it hadn't been for that Jenny and Alison probably wouldn't have happened and instead it would have been Jenny and Nick - For a long time after that I was very hesitant sexually around males, and now you probably can understand more fully why my longterm partner is another woman, indeed a transwoman at that. It took me a long time to feel fully relaxed in a sexual situation again, but in the last few years I believe I have done it. Five or ten years ago I would simply not have answered your question.

So to you I would say, please don't let it stop your transition, but learn to careful.

And to Cindy I say - please don't give up hope. You can overcome it, and in my experience it does help a lot when your transition and SRS is complete and you can be the person you wanted to be.

Peace sisters - we can beat them. I survived - you can too.

I have been watching this and Jesse's other thread.  My ex has been raped at least twice and one thing I have learned is that rapists are all about power.  It does not matter if you are male or female, they are after the power.  The power to control another and do what they want with them.

I have scared a couple of times while walking to my car.  And it is never far from my mind.  But we can protect ourselves in many ways.

My heart goes out to anyone who has been violated in such a manner.  And from past experiences with my ex, the horrors never really go away.

Quote from: CindyJames on April 28, 2010, 05:17:08 AMFrom kiddies who have been abused to POW's who have been abused;It's all the same. You never truly get over it. We live it and survive and celebrate. We are unbelievably strong.

Rape isn't about sex it's about power and control. I never thought about the sexual abuse I suffered as a child as being "rape", but of course now I have to admit that's what it was. This thread has made that realization dawn on me and now I feel dirty. I tell myself it's just a word. It's something that is very hard to talk about, even years later. You don't want to be associated with something like that as the victim, it's shameful. Sorry, this is a difficult subject for me.

Quote from: FairyGirl on April 28, 2010, 09:52:38 AM
Rape isn't about sex it's about power and control. I never thought about the sexual abuse I suffered as a child as being "rape", but of course now I have to admit that's what it was. This thread has made that realization dawn on me and now I feel dirty. I tell myself it's just a word. It's something that is very hard to talk about, even years later. You don't want to be associated with something like that as the victim, it's shameful. Sorry, this is a difficult subject for me.

Believe me Chloe until about ten years ago I was the same. But the good news is as you start to talk about it it does get easier. You are so right too. As I said in one of my earlier posts, sex is for some men, irrevoccably tied up with power - and for a very few sick people so much so that it becomes more about the power than the sex. Thats when Rape becomes a very real possibility.

Believe it or not, I also suffered two episodes of what could be termed child sex abuse, ironically not because of my parents, but because of a family "friend" who came to stay at our house on a few occassions. Once again I probably got off pretty lightly as these things go. I seem to have been fated in life to have brushes with these things, and yet somehow still escape the worst.

In my memory I tend to try to discount these truamatic parts of my childhood when I talk about it, because I know that they were thankfully soon over, but the truth is they were there, and in my mind are almost as the price I paid for all the good stuff which also happened.

Anyway you have my sympathy and undestanding. It takes time to come to terms with things like that, but as I have said it can be done, and talking about it and admitting to oneself the reality of what took place is definitely the first step. So well done.

Jenny, thank you for sharing such a deep and intimate part of yourself.  Even though it was in the past, I can tell that it touched a scar from an old wound.  Thank you again.

This is part of what we, as newly-minted females, must do.  We must hit the bricks running.  We never have a chance to learn from girlfriends, sisters, or adults that we have to be aware of what is going on around us.  To be a little wary.  There is no "girl-school" for us, which is what part of the years of puberty are supposed to be.  And not having those skills can be very serious for us.

While I've had one or two episodes that were scary, they were nothing like what others have here have described.

But even then, *I* was the one that felt guilty.  I felt that I was somehow responsible for what happened.  It took many months before I could think about it and not get angry at myself.

Talking about it with my partner and others have helped, but it takes time.

Tori, every year we have the Transgender Day of Remembrance.  It is to honor the memory of those of us who have been murdered in the previous year.  And so many of these acts of violence are about power and rape. 

No, Tori, you asked the right question.  Thank you.

-Sandy

When I was 15 and living in the big city (9 years pre-op) I was a naive kid from the country and I had never thought of myself as "potential prey" until it happened.

I was snatched off the street late one evening and realized I was in the hands of rapists and that, when they found my "secret", I would probably end up dead. I fought with tooth and nail like a wild cat and fortunately my screams were heard and the police were called before it went too far. I was knocked unconscious and woke up in the hospital.

The experience changed the way I thought about myself and my vulnerabilities.

As to no "girl school". There is one, I got sent there in junior high. Hated it as you can imagine. Hated having to learn to walk and talk the way they wanted.


Due to personal experience, rape is the one crime I think warrants capitol punishment. Ok I admit it still makes me angry to think about, among other feelings.,

It's never comfortable to discuss. I escaped a rape attempt, and that was shameful enough, also blamed myself for being born this way, in some ways worse than if I had been targeted as a GF.

Let alone having to go through it.

As to girl school, I believe I've been an intern.

Quote from: LordKAT on April 28, 2010, 01:13:34 PM
Due to personal experience, rape is the one crime I think warrants capitol punishment. Ok I admit it still makes me angry to think about, among other feelings.,

I agree with you there, but capital punishment implies a humane extiguishment of life.

There really should be some methods that are more satisfying than others.  At least for the survivors and families.  Perhaps something involving either a chainsaw or a rusty pizza cutter.

-Sandy

Wow I never thought about it as a power play, thanks for clearing that up.I guess it's comparative to the men and women being raped in the Congo by those soldiers.

Either way, I find it unbearable to think that there are people out there who are solely looking for power, and that they find it by sexually abusing others. Something akin to sexual abuse happened to me in April 2006, though I really don't have the courage to post any details about it like Jesse did, though it was definitely not as extreme. It did not occur to me that it rape/abuse was about power, but the more I reflect, the more it makes sense (rape never makes sense). My high school has in recent years had problems with allegations of sexual abuse from the 70's and 80's, child porn charges for a staff member the year I entered in 2003. Now, it's relevant, since a graduate of my high school purportedly used his position of power and his rank of Colonel within the Canadian Air Force to prey on unsuspecting women on his base; he is now in prison awaiting trial. He lost his power when he went to prison, so he recently tried to commit suicide. Some use rape to gain power over others, others use their positions of power to abuse others, etc.