...that I'm really okay?


My mom is having some difficulties adjusting to this whole gender thing. She's convinced that all transgender people are messed up and unstable and that she must have failed me horribly as a parent by letting me grow up in a relativelt gender-neutral environment.

Now, to understand my mom and this situation, you have to know a few things. First off, I'm 19 and am living with my mom until I finish college (in other words, at least 3 more years). Second off, I'm really close to her. I always have been-- she's amazingly open-minded and we have a lot of the same beliefs and values (not to mention the same sense of humor). Second off, she intentionally decided not to gender-straightjacket me and my brother. She is (was?) against forcing kids into gender roles. Now she says she regrets that, and is begining to push my brother (who just turned 16) more and more towards a more 'masculine' role.

I don't think this is because she's afraid OF me so much as because she's afraid FOR me. On one level, that makes sense-- being genderqueer is not easy. I know that. I know there are employers that won't hire me. I know there are people who will disrespect or avoid or even hurt me. But Mom seems to think that the only solution to this is for me to deny my gender identity and be "normal."

...she also thinks that most transpeople are unstable and dengerous, and she doesn't want me getting wrapped up in "that community."

This morning she told me (while I was putting together my resume and cover letter) to make sure i don't tell future employers about my "non-identity" or they'll "run away screaming." A while back, she told me I'm "diagnosably mentally ill." (My mom is a mental health worker... but she's infinitely skeptical of the DSM, so I don't know where that statement came from or how she justifies it.)

I don't... what? I don't know. I don't know what to do about this, because it's not a simple, clear-cut, "Ew, you're transgender, get out of my house!" kind of transphobia. It's the impossibly complicated, "I love you, please don't let yourself get hurt. I feel sorry for you because tehre's something wrong with you and  I want to protect you," kind. I don't know what to do with taht.

I'm hoping that once she realizes I'm still living a perfectly healthy life, still, despite identifying as genderqueer, she'll figure out that everything is okay. I don't reeally care if she uses the right pronouns for me-- I just want the snide comments about my "non-identity" to stop. She brings it up more and more, lately, and I don't know what to do. I don't know how to demonstrate that to her that I can live a perfectly well-adjusted life and identfy as genderqueer. I don' know how to get across to her that it would be far more painful to deny my own identity than to deal with the consequences of having an identity that a lot of people discriminate against.

And honestly? The worst prejudice i've gotten has been FROM my mom. I don't think she realizes that.

I feel like I can't really move forward much farther without my mom's semi-aproval at the very least. Without her knowing, the only counselor I can see is a free, short-term counsellor at my college, who isn't available during the summer and is good for talking to, but doesn't know anything about transitioning. I don't know where to go from here without some kind of support from my mom.

What do i tell her? What do i show her? That's not a rhetorical question-- I wreally could use any suggestions you can throw my way.

I'm sorry this is so incoherent. There's just SO MUCH and i couldn't figure out how to cram it into one post. D8

If your mom is a mental health professional maybe she would understand things better from others who are in the profession.  One of the best books out there is True Selves: Understanding Transsexualism-For Families, Friends, Coworkers, and Helping Professionals.

I know you didn't identify as TS but this book can help with understanding what TGs go through and how to help them.

As far as the DSM, it is now in review and hopefully will update transgender to something more accurate.  That might help your mom's skepticism.  But I understand her skepticism, when there is a clause that says if the majority is mentally disordered then it's not a disorder (paraphrased).

You said some things here that I would have liked to hear from my child if they were suffering.  Maybe you can sit down with her and tell her what you said here.

Regarding her feelings that TGs are messed up and she doesn't want you getting involved with that community, you need to remind her she is talking about you and you are part of the community she thinks is messed up.  Try finding a local support group and taking her there.  There's some in the Chicago area that focus on teens and it's very different than ones that we typically see.  Maybe you can find something like that near you.

There's an idea. Maybe I'll see if I can get that from the library and persuade my mom to read it. (She's notoriously stubborn, though, so I'm a little wary that she'll just argue about the book instead of taking it to heart.)

I don't think a revision of the DSM will help much-- My mom doesn't take the DSM seriously to begin with (she thinks it's complete nonsense), so obviously her opinion that transgender people are mentally ill isn't coming directly from the DSM. (Though if it gets revamped, at least she can't use the DSM to back herself up anymore?)

I think all the hings I've said here are things I;ve already told her. The problem is getting her to believe me. I've mentioned that I know it's not an easy identity  to have, and that I'm careful about who I tell and how I tell them, but she still thinks I'm being reckless and don't know how to take care of myself. I asked her a few weeks ago if she's seen any signs that my gender identity is hurting me or making me less stable, and she even said herself, "Well, no..." but then she felt she had to qualify it wioth a "not yet" as if she's convinced that it's a fluke that I'm still functioning like a normal, healthy human being.

I want so badly to tell her what my counselor said, because he told me I'm one of the most well-adjusted patients he's had in over 30 years of being a counselor. He even tested me for depression/anxiety/bipolar disorder just as a precautionary measure, and found none of the above. i would love to tell my mom tall of that, but she decided back in 9th grade that she never wants me to go to another counselor, because she doesn't want me in the mental health "system." And i'm fairly sure, all things considered, that she especially doesn't want me seeing a counselor about gender-anything. So I'm afraid she'll be too furious about my going behind her back to get counseling srvices to listen to the rest of what I have to say.

I think the nearst places with support groups are all multi-hour drives from where i live (Indianapolis is closest, followed by Chicago)-- same goes for actual gender-related counseling services. I'm kind of inn the middle of nowhere when it comes to transgender services of any sort-- which is actually a lot of why I need my mom behind me for support: Otherwise, I don't have money or a vehicle to access the resources I need. Itch a catch 22 of sorts.

I do not understand the way some people who think we are mentaly ill will treat us so meanly.
I highly doubt that these people would treat most other people with mental disorders in such a callus way.
If we are sick then why are they mad at us? It is not our fault we have bad wiring...

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 11, 2010, 04:04:15 PM
If you raise this issue with your mother again, I'm happy for you to use me as an example of a transgender person who has their life sorted (as conceited as that may sound).
i.e. I'm in a stable, long term relationship, have a very respectable job in a large company, no mental health issues, no criminal record, no history of drug abuse, I hang with the 'right' crowd (i.e. mostly working professionals like myself), I don't self-harm, I have plenty of friends and most importantly, I'm happy.
I'm also happy to speak to her via email to confirm that trans people can be 'normal' and live productive, fulfilling lives.

That's fantastic and encouraging to hear~ though I don't know how effective it would be in convincing my mom. I've tried the "listing examples of well-adjusted transpeople" method, but thus far it hasn't really proved too effective. (Plus, if I list TOO many examples, I'm afraid she'll pick up on how immersed I am in the trans community and use that against me.)


...also, I don't really think my mom is treating me "meanly" or "callously" per say. I think "overprotecive" and "patronizing" would be more accurate... and as far as I can tell, that's how she treats her mentally ill clients. She pities them and doesn't take them seriously. It's not hatred or bitterness, not at all, but it's a kind of prejudice in its own right.

But I'm as stubbornly optomistic as my mom is stubbornly overprotective! Plus, this is too important to just give up on with the assumption that my mom, who is usually one of the most open-minded people I know, is too closed-minded to ever accept my identity.

...there's gotta be some way. I just haven't thought of it, yet.

Quote from: Crow on May 11, 2010, 01:22:20 PMA while back, she told me I'm "diagnosably mentally ill." (My mom is a mental health worker... but she's infinitely skeptical of the DSM, so I don't know where that statement came from or how she justifies it.)

That is quite possibly.. one of the most horrifying things ive ever heard.. :\ (No actually, that would be a Westborough Baptist Church member working as a nurse..) Your mom is supposed to be tolerant and understand in order to work efficiently in that kind of job, it disturbs me that she might have patients who are transgender who she is possibly giving a really a difficult life!

It is sad that a lot of people act upon ignorance, or let their mere "feelings" influence the lives of others :\

I say strive to prove your mom wrong, live your life as a girl and be happy and proud of who you are inside, your mom will soon see howhappy and normal are! <3

Quote from: Little Dragon on May 11, 2010, 06:08:58 PM
That is quite possibly.. one of the most horrifying things ive ever heard.. :\ (No actually, that would be a Westborough Baptist Church member working as a nurse..) Your mom is supposed to be tolerant and understand in order to work efficiently in that kind of job, it disturbs me that she might have patients who are transgender who she is possibly giving a really a difficult life!

It is sad that a lot of people act upon ignorance, or let their mere "feelings" influence the lives of others :\

I say strive to prove your mom wrong, live your life as a girl and be happy and proud of who you are inside, your mom will soon see howhappy and normal are! <3

(Actually, living my life as a girl might kind of defeat the purpose. 8D; *is an androgyne, despite the typically female name* But I know what you mean and appreciate the sentiment, no worries~ <3)

I really, sincerely think my mom means well. Not only out of my usual faith-in-humanity tendencies, but also because I know my mom, and I know how she views the world-- she's paranoid to the point of irrationality about anything that could hurt the people she cares about. She views my gender identity as, well... equivalent to my brother riding a bike without a helmet. That may not be an accurate view of my gender identity, but it's certainly not formed out of hatred. It's formed out of fear for the well-being of someone she cares about.

The thing is, she's also incredibly stubborn-- she'll even readily admit it. She doesn't like to admit that she's wrong, even when faced with undeniable proof--if she's proven so wrong that she can't deny it, she  just kind of... slooooowly stops arguing and then doesn't talk about it for a long time, but never actually admits she was wrong. So convincing her of anything is both very slow and rather hit-or-miss, as you never know what will actually convince her or what will just set her on edge. It's a little like Russion roulette.

Also, EGADS a Westboro Baptist Church nurse would be horrifying. I'm with you on that one!

when i started going out as "me" my parents were really worried about me, worried i would get beaten up or raped or murdered. Now a few months in they seem a lot more comfortable with it, i think only an effort to live a productive and happy life will show her she is wrong

Quote from: Crow on May 11, 2010, 10:39:45 PM
Also, EGADS a Westboro Baptist Church nurse would be horrifying. I'm with you on that one!

I wasn't making that up..

Sorry, your avatar looks feminine so I assumed you were a tgirl, your fursona looks very pretty *blush* (i got an FA too) I wonder how your mom would react to you coming out as a furry..

Quote from: Crow on May 11, 2010, 04:30:32 PM
...also, I don't really think my mom is treating me "meanly" or "callously" per say. I think "overprotecive" and "patronizing" would be more accurate... and as far as I can tell, that's how she treats her mentally ill clients. She pities them and doesn't take them seriously. It's not hatred or bitterness, not at all, but it's a kind of prejudice in its own right.

This is how a lot of "helping professionals" treat their clients. It's one of the reasons I have such negative associations with mental health care, and it's the root of why I've struggled with the decision to even talk to a counselor about gender issues.

Quote from: kyril on May 12, 2010, 07:38:28 AM
This is how a lot of "helping professionals" treat their clients. It's one of the reasons I have such negative associations with mental health care, and it's the root of why I've struggled with the decision to even talk to a counselor about gender issues.

Indeed, I couldn't continue with my transition when I first tried a few years ago because the counsellors and doctor wasnt all that understanding of transgender, I had no support from friends of family either. Today, I have a bf who will support my transition and also I've made my own effort to get booked into an NHS gender clinic where I hope the cousellors and therapists will be caring and understanding of my condition It's important that counsellors are caring and not prejudiced..

Quote from: Little Dragon on May 12, 2010, 06:33:56 AM
I wasn't making that up..

Sorry, your avatar looks feminine so I assumed you were a tgirl, your fursona looks very pretty *blush* (i got an FA too) I wonder how your mom would react to you coming out as a furry..

Nope, I'm just an androgyne who likes cute things. |D Understandable misconception, though~ Typically female name + cute fursona.

Also, my mom knows I'm into drawing anthro art. She thinks its really snazzy, actually-- I show her my art all the time and tell her stories about my characters. Like I said, she's awesome about pretty much eeeverything except my gender identity.


As for mental health care: I was wary for a loooong time about seeing a counsellor, in part because my mom won't LET me (she thinks all mental health workers other than herself will just mess me up more instead of helping me), but also because I've had a lot of troubles with counsellors in the past (i.e. they all think I have Asperger's because I get weird and fidgetty and don't act like myself in therapy, and they won't hear a word of it when I say I'm not like that normally-- being patronized makes me really uncomfortable). It wasn't until about a month ago that I decided to give the free counselling services at my college another go, and I actually got a good counsellor who I felt comfortable enough with that I didn't turn into a fidgetty mess. He saw the real me and it all worked out wonderfully. He's not a gender specialist by any means, but he's really understanding and helps with thinking things through and finding resources and ruling out other possibilities (like depression and asperger's) so I don't keep second-guessing myself.

Nevertheless, I really need to eventually find a way to get to a gender specialist, which is quite a challenge when I don't have fully-supportive parents or a job and vehicle of my own, and the nearest places with gender specialists are 2-4 hours away and out of my price range.

Quote from: Crow on May 12, 2010, 12:13:14 PMmy mom won't LET me (she thinks all mental health workers other than herself will just mess me up more instead of helping me)

No offense but.. saying that sort of thing makes me think that your mom is deluded and a little arrogant.. The only way to combat this frame of mind is to continually insist on being yourself in a non-aggressive way and just be happy about who you are, not allowing your mom's opinions crush you.. hopefully she will learn that she isnt going to win and might consider changing her opinion on transexuality.. just might..

I hope you don't deny who you are..

I think that your mother, as a mental health worker surrounded by those who are mentally ill, believes that the mentally ill represent a much larger amount of people than it really does. She may also be so used to noticing negative aspects of mental disorders in others that she percieves them in you while unintentionally ignoring the positive.

In reality, I think most depression and other mental problems that transgendered people have are directly related to the lack of acceptence that society has for them.

And you can move on without your mothers constant approval. The more she sees you living a functional, happy, positive life, the less she will have to worry about. And if your mother wasn't worried about this aspect of your life, she would be worried about another. Mothers are just programmed that way for some reason and sometimes you have to just live your life.

Some people are born like that, also defined gender roles makes ppl believe that they are in a wrong body.
I am much more feminine that other guys. I wanted to take hormones too. I am stucked with society.
Science has gone so far that now we can think of transition which was not possible before.

But I was researching on these.
1. Sth really I found out, search youtube, I don't have the link. GM foods (beef and chicken) are causing the testosterone level to permanently decrease generation to generation. THIS IS PERMANENT decrease. what is happening is, some men are born with more feminine and low testosterone and they eventually are more inclined to be more feminine.
Very shocking discovery by a doctor.

2. My case, I adore transsexuals and women, I always wanted to be a sexy transsexual, a sexual object of desire. Its more like a desire and passion. I really would transition if I wasn't stuck with society. I feel like crying why I didnt take birth in a family that would allow. But with time I am accepting that I will stick with my malehood to satisfy my surrounding, In return I switched my passion to be a super sexy guy, and doing gym 7 hours everyday. This actually has helped me, I still and always will have that desire to be a girl with a beautiful hips and butt and prettiness, but if I can excel with my manhood and become an object of desire for ladies. I will still gain very small satisfaction as an alternative.