I was at a TS support meeting last Sunday.  A girl there who is living in stealth was bothered by her stealth status.  She described herself as an activist but found that she had recently adopted a stealth lifestyle because she feared the reaction of her coworkers.  And this was becoming a big problem for her.  She said she never imagined she'd choose stealth over helping us achieve social progress.  That she was doing just this was weighing heavily on her mind.   

When I began therapy my therapist told me of this group.  She had started the group but had since handed it to an active TS to head it up.  But she told me something that I vividly remember.

When I started the group there were many girls there who passed easily.  Some I thought were natal females and was thinking of asking them to leave as this was intended to be a TS only support group.  I was glad I didn't because, to my surprise, they were transsexual.  What saddened me was when these ladies started to leave the group.  The reason they cited was they wanted to live in stealth and didn't want to be associated with being a transsexual.  This created a problem because the girls remaining in the group badly needed those women to stay involved so they could gain learn from their experience.

I can see her point.  While we are coming out and into public we need support and encouragement.  Much of that comes from those who have successfully transitioned.  But if those who can live in stealth remain invisible, where will that support come from?  If they remain in stealth, society will never know how many of us there are out there and that we are just normal everyday people.  Instead they will see the Jerry Springer kind of crap that has hurt our efforts so badly.

I'm not an active activist but I do consider myself a passive activist.  I won't go out and start groups or volunteer to do all kinds of work to help promote the cause.  That's not in my personality.  But when I'm asked I will gladly present to them whatever they need to know to help them understand we are just normal people trying to find happiness during our time here on earth. 

If I am out in public doing everyday things, I won't go up to everyone I see and tell them I'm trans.  But if I see them look at me funny I will make a point of smiling politely and even saying hi if the situation presents itself.  I feel I have an obligation to the next generation to do at least that.  It's not much but at least it's something.  But if I ever pass completely I hope I never go stealth.  That would be like turning my back on all those who helped me get where I am and all those who are hoping for a better life.

Julie, we want to be normal in our roles.  For many years, I wouldn't even be seen in public with some of my friends.  I was wrong of course, but I had to be seen as a female and I could not "out" myself for any reason.  March 1, 2007 will mark two decades for me since my GRS.  Most of that has been lived in stealth mode.  And it has been a very healthy thing for me.  I have developed a life as a woman.  I am married, have friends, do volunteer work, and participate in two local symphony orchestras. No one knows about my past with the exception of my dear husband.  My choices would be so limited if I were to come out.... especially in this redneck part of CA where I live.

Participating in the "T community" is a huge emotional drain. That is not healthy.  I've been through hell getting to where I am.  It is very difficult for me to come back and relive those experiences through others as they climb their way out.  "Why would I ever come back," I continually ask myself.  "Why am I spending so much time in this forum?"  I know that it must end someday.  I need to get back to my life.  For now, I have developed some friendships that are important to me here (you are on the list).  And for that I hang on. Fortunately, my work schedule is allowing me the time to reach out and offer any help I can right now.  That will change shortly.

So...  what do I do?  No one knows about me in my community.  I see no reason to tell them.  How much time can I devote to helping others in this cloaked internet incarnation of myself?  I don't know the answers to all of that.  I'm just taking it day to day for now.

Am I making any sense?

Cindi

You make complete sense, Cindi. That's how I feel, exactly. It's difficult enough being visible, being different, and still dealing with your own stuff at the same time. All I want is a life. The life I have is quite satisfactory to me. I do not want my life on public display.

I'm not ashamed of who I am. In this small town, people sometimes find out who I don't intend to find out, but if I treat it as no big deal, they're less likely to run around and say 'psst, that lawyer is a transsexual'.

I took my mum to the grocery store today and I left with the groceries while she was still paying. The checkout woman said to my mum 'is that your son?'. Mum said 'yes'. She said 'he's a good lawyer. I was a witness in one of his cases'. Mum said when she got to the car that she was proud to have a son who's known in the community in a good way.

I can't remember the woman at all, unfortunately, so I don't know when she was a witness for me, but it was probably fairly close to my transition, so she probably knows (I'm figuring, because I don't remember her, it must have been a while ago). But she was completely respectful to my mum and to me. That kind of person knowing, I don't mind at all.

If I was an 'activist', I think I'd change fewer minds than I do just being quietly me.

Dennis

Julie,
   I feel the same way. I will not go stealth, not even for a second. I want people to recognize me as a transsexual and know that my life liveing as a woman is "normal". I want the few kids who are in school who know they are trans to know that there are trans people out there and they are old and they do have jobs and are making a life like they should have had. To me, it is all about the children. I want to be out and be a mentor for kids who think of nothing but that they should have been the other gender. So they are not depressed in school  that they can achieve success in what they want to do and make a decision on life at a early age, not like me who lived until I was in my mid to upper 40's before I could admit it to myself. If more of us were out and in the open, then there wouldn't be all the problems we have now. Not to say that the problems will go away, but be less than what they are now. I would think that the depression in children would go down and that the suicide numbers would come down and also I believe that in some the drug and alcohol addiction could drop. I'm just talking about the children who are in question of their gender.
   I have had so many people thank me for being open with them. No, I don't go around with a sign on my chest saying I'm TS, but I will talk to them if it comes up. Cindi, you said you live in a redneck world in California. My mom lives 40 miles west of Redding Ca and it is very redneck there. I go to the stores there and to the little cafe that is in town there. They have all met me and I don't know if they know who I am or not. They all treat my very well and like a lady. They all know I'm my moms daughter as I look just like her, except about 6 inches taller.
    Yes, living in Stealth does hurt our cause, Sheila

I myself am trying to live as stealth as possible given the fact that 90% of my coworkers know about me it will be hard.  I can tolerate the work situation as I'm protected, but I date, and go dancing, trying to live as normal a life as I can.  I cannot afford the risk of being "discovered" by the man I'm dancing with, that could have some very nasty consequences.  As I said I'm doing my hardest to live my life as a normal woman and a normal woman would not reveal the fact that they are trans when in the club type atmosphere.  I would imagine that I would have a pretty empty dance card.  Some would say that 'Get serious... dancing!'  but I say yes as frivolous as it seems I like to dance and I would not be able to do that if people, especially men, in the places I frequent new of my past.

I will support our community as best I can given the fact that I intend to live stealth and I think that is fair.  There is many ways of supporting our community and still maintain a stealth status.  Coming here to Susan's is one way of providing that support and giving something back to the community.  Other ways are taking part in letter writing campaigns to those in power over the various issues that crop up from time to time.  Granted there is no guarantee that I'll be able to maintain this stealth status, but I intend to try.  Personally I do not feel that I have turned my back on anyone, I need to live my life as a woman plain and simple and I can't realistically do that with folks knowing my past.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

Ah, the stealth argument.  Well, as far as I am concerned, stealth doesn't work for me.  I am a former public official.  I respect others' desires to be stealth.  However, at the risk of getting flamed, I must say that stealth, to me, is just exchanging one closet for another, and to me, that is not healthy.  But each must make their own decisions in life.  I identify as a woman and as trans.


I try to contribute by addressing at schools, colleges, places where others are transitioning, etc., so that others have the right to be who they are and to live their lives as they choose.  This is not for everyone.  My feeling is that if by doing what I do makes one person's life better, then I have succeeded.

From the FWIW department

Most of us transition hoping to lead a normal life somewhere down the road.  For some people, that may involve living as
a post-op transsexual, for others, it's trying to live a normal life as a woman (or man) which often requires some level of stealth. 
I don't think anyone who has endured the rigors and horrors of transition is under any obligation to anyone so I find this idea of an
implied debt to the trans community a bit offensive.  If you want to be out, be proud, be an activist, whatever, please do so--I
respect your choice--but please don't suggest that I have a similar obligation.  I don't.  The choice between out and stealth
should be just that, a choice, an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.  I'm a woman with a
transsexual history, not a transsexual, and my history is my business alone.

Dawn

Quote from: DawnL on October 29, 2006, 09:41:45 PM
Most of us transition hoping to lead a normal life somewhere down the road.  For some people, that may involve living as
a post-op transsexual, for others, it's trying to live a normal life as a woman (or man) which often requires some level of stealth. 
I don't think anyone who has endured the rigors and horrors of transition is under any obligation to anyone so I find this idea of an
implied debt to the trans community a bit offensive.  If you want to be out, be proud, be an activist, whatever, please do so--I
respect your choice--but please don't suggest that I have a similar obligation.  I don't.  The choice between out and stealth
should be just that, a choice, an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.  I'm a woman with a
transsexual history, not a transsexual, and my history is my business alone.

Dawn

I couldn't agree more with you, Dawn!

tinkerbell

Keep in mind that stealth/out is not a binary choice.  You can find a balance in between.  I am living some portions of my life stealth and some out.  I think it's healthy, since it allows me to discuss some of the unique situations encountered from having a different life path than a non-TG person.

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on October 29, 2006, 09:53:06 PM
Keep in mind that stealth/out is not a binary choice.  You can find a balance in between.  I am living some portions of my life stealth and some out.  I think it's healthy, since it allows me to discuss some of the unique situations encountered from having a different life path than a non-TG person.

Melissa

Melissa, I am very happy to know that this balance is healthy for you.  However, what is healthy for you may not be healthy for others.  So given this, I would have to say that everyone chooses to live life in a way that fits them better, and for me and many others in these forums, being out is out of the question.


tinkerbell

Quote from: Tinkerbell on October 29, 2006, 10:53:32 PM
Melissa, I am very happy to know that this balance is healthy for you.  However, what is healthy for you may not be healthy for others.  So given this, I would have to say that everyone chooses to live life in a way that fits them better, and for me and many others in these forums, being out is out of the question.

tinkerbell

I agree that the combination is different for everyone and I am heading more and more towards the direction of stealth.  I don't know if I would ever do deep stealth.  It just seems far too stressful.  My point was is that there are points in between the 2 extremes.

Melissa

Hi All,

I agree. Those that have gone through transition have a right to live their lives with all of the happiness they can find. I totally respect their choice to live in stealth and never interact face to face with the T crowd again. It is something they have earned and I would never ask to infringe upon that.

My only worry, with being at the very beggining, is that I won't find anyone to support or be supported by. I know I need to transition, and the thought of doing it totally alone (aside form my gender therapist), to be honest, terrifies me almost to the point of tears.

*hugs*

Genevieve

Quote from: Genevieve on October 30, 2006, 10:56:41 AM
My only worry, with being at the very beggining, is that I won't find anyone to support or be supported by. I know I need to transition, and the thought of doing it totally alone (aside form my gender therapist), to be honest, terrifies me almost to the point of tears.

Do not worry sis.  There will always be others to help you out along the way.  Others that have travelled the roads set before you.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."
-- Isaac Newton

Melissa

Quote from: Genevieve on October 30, 2006, 10:56:41 AM
My only worry, with being at the very beggining, is that I won't find anyone to support or be supported by. I know I need to transition, and the thought of doing it totally alone (aside form my gender therapist), to be honest, terrifies me almost to the point of tears.

The best support tends to come from women near your level of transition or just ahead of you.  There will always be men and
women in transition and these people form the basis of most support groups.  I think in future there will be even more people in
transition so don't worry about going it alone.

Dawn

Dawn and others, I agree that this is your choice at being stealth or not. What I do question is how can you do it with all the communication that is out there. People you know before will at sometime ID you and then you have to worry about that. That means another closet. I don't really care how stealth you are, you don't owe anyone an explanation nor do you have to tell anyone. This is your business and I for one will never out anyone. I want to help others as much as I can as I couldn't find anyone in flesh n blood to ID with or talk to. I also want the rest of the world to know that people like us exist in this world and it isn't some made up fantasy that some porno magazine made up. I live a regular life, work, vote and pay taxes. I go to the doctor and educate the medical field and they know I'm around as they have to send things to universities on what to do with me. After all I have had testosterone running through my body for 50 years now it is estrogen and I have the bone structure of a male and the flesh part of a female. My mind is female but there are parts of me that are still male, not my genitals. So I'm unique. I made my choice and I respect others choices.
Sheila

Quote from: DawnL on October 29, 2006, 09:41:45 PM
... so I find this idea of an
implied debt to the trans community a bit offensive.  If you want to be out, be proud, be an activist, whatever, please do so--I
respect your choice--but please don't suggest that I have a similar obligation.  I don't. 

I didn't suggest or imply anything.  I stated what works for me and what I do.  I consider myself female.  But I also am transexual.


Posted on: 30 October 2006, 14:26:16

---

Quote from: Sheila on October 30, 2006, 02:42:25 PM
Dawn and others, I agree that this is your choice at being stealth or not. What I do question is how can you do it with all the communication that is out there. People you know before will at sometime ID you and then you have to worry about that. That means another closet. I don't really care how stealth you are, you don't owe anyone an explanation nor do you have to tell anyone. This is your business and I for one will never out anyone. I want to help others as much as I can as I couldn't find anyone in flesh n blood to ID with or talk to. I also want the rest of the world to know that people like us exist in this world and it isn't some made up fantasy that some porno magazine made up. I live a regular life, work, vote and pay taxes. I go to the doctor and educate the medical field and they know I'm around as they have to send things to universities on what to do with me. After all I have had testosterone running through my body for 50 years now it is estrogen and I have the bone structure of a male and the flesh part of a female. My mind is female but there are parts of me that are still male, not my genitals. So I'm unique. I made my choice and I respect others choices.
Sheila

Well said.  What I was trying to say, but I am not so eloquent.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have the genetics, the good surgeons, or the money to pay them, to be able to live in stealth after completing physical transition.  These people will be read wherever they go.  I find it hard to think of myself walking away from them.

Those who have been blessed with being able to live in stealth are really the best representatives we have.  They look and sound like genetic women and many would shock the world if they went public.  There might be an initial hysteria but in time that would subside.  I feel the end result would be society would relax their prejudices.  Let me explain. 

Think about the reaction when someone sees a beautiful TS that looks exactly like a genetic woman.  Usually it's disbelief, but even after they accept this rarely do you hear negative or derogatory remarks.  Now show that same person a non passable TS and what will you hear?  I doubt it will be good.  What I'm saying is if the general public knew how many of us transition very well they would eventually be more open to accepting us all.  Beauty can win over even the most closed minded.  And what will eventually happen is those who aren't so blessed will have an easier time transitioning and living full time.

I'm not trying to guilt anyone into coming out.  That's completely your choice and I understand if you have been able to live in stealth why, change your life for the off chance it might help someone else?  It may ruin the life you have.  But I do have to agree with Shelia, going stealth after transitioning IS like going from one closet to another.  For me, the closet was hell and I'm not sure I can go back into another closet.

Julie

It seems to me that living in deep stealth means keeping secrets and in order to keep such secrets you are obligated to lie.

If I find myself lying about myself AFTER I've gone through these painful changes I'll know I've gone backwards.  I'm doing this to STOP lying about who I am.

helen

As long as you live where people knew you from the past, stealth is not totally possible.  Several of my customers knew me from before, but they never bring it up, to them I am a woman.

I would never lie to anyone if they asked, but I would consider it a little rude to be asked.  I also would never go out of my way to tell someone I just meet about my past, it is none of their business.

Sarah L.

Quote from: HelenW on October 30, 2006, 05:34:21 PM
It seems to me that living in deep stealth means keeping secrets and in order to keep such secrets you are obligated to lie.

This is probably why I couldn't do deep stealth so easily.  The way I live now is I just don't say anything about being TS and nobody asks.  It works out well that way.  For the odd situations where I need to speak about more personal items such as my divorce, I talk in gender neutral language.  That also avoids any lying.

Melissa