lisegirl's response pretty much ignored my quote.  It doesn't speak at all to the fact that even in low-status jobs that TGs will be discriminated against (maybe even more so), and that (physically-disabled) people are getting turned away from jobs they are able to do (more of the white-collar work).  All it does is insinuate they are typically drug abusers.

And regarding the government's obligation, Jasmine addresses it, but regarding how it affects TGs-specifically, it is not about ensuring survival for them any more than any other group.  Rather, it seeks to stop discrimination (as best it can) so anyone can be guaranteed a reasonable opportunity to be a productive member of society.  In fact, people who disriminate against TGs typically do so for religious reasons (whether directly or indirectly), something that is arguably already illegal -- and what ENDA can do it make that sort of abuse easier to punish.

Quote've been living as male full time for 3 years. I really do not want to work as female under my legal name.

What you want takes second seat to what you need. Too bad you do not want to do the work that is the key to being successful. You will suffer the consequences and ENDA will not change that. The employer will know your real name and gender from a Social Security check.

QuoteIt doesn't speak at all to the fact that even in low-status jobs that TGs will be discriminated against (maybe even more so), and that (physically-disabled) people are getting turned away from jobs they are able to do (more of the white-collar work).  All it does is insinuate they are typically drug abusers.

There are simply not enough white collar jobs to go round. Disabled people are plum out of luck unless they start their own business.

I addressed your quote. It does not matter what you want, fact is employers will hire who they like and get along with. They want people like themselves not some anti-culture person that will lose them business. Fact is if you want to get ahead you will have to conform to cultural expectations. No matter what the law, employers will find reasons not to hire you that are legal and despite a law on discrimination.

Some religions have discriminated in the past but employers are fickle, some might discriminate on what school you went to. Welcome to the real world.

QuoteHaving an indomitable will to work and succeed isn't enough.

You have noticed not all people have equal skills which makes for an unequal world. In competition it takes more than just being alive. You have to be better to get ahead, that requires education, hard work and a willingness to compromise. You can not get your way without giving up some of yourself. Fact is the in the west all people are rich even the homeless compared to the thousands that die each day due to lack of clean water and food. Count yourself lucky to be alive. 

QuoteAnd most of all, it takes luck.

You have no say of who you are born to but you do have control of your life and the things that you put yourself into. Yes if you start in a bad spot it is more difficult to dig your way out. But to use the resources around you to the best of your ability will work much better than depending on luck.

QuoteNo matter how hard you work, bad luck can ruin you for life.

There is no such thing as bad luck , Never let a crises go to waste. Every action has a silver lining if you are creative.

Quote from: lisagurl on May 24, 2010, 08:19:51 PM
What you want takes second seat to what you need. Too bad you do not want to do the work that is the key to being successful. You will suffer the consequences and ENDA will not change that. The employer will know your real name and gender from a Social Security check.

Not a fan of the term "real name" but that's getting on technicalities. If it went down to the point where I would absolutely have to get a job completely as female, female name, etc. it would not be any sort of positive outcome. Some may consider living as the gender you identify as as a want but for me it's pretty darn close to a need. I do want to work but it's a matter of finding somebody who will employ me with the skills I have, the education level, and work experience I have (as well as my being trans).

It's a loop.

QuoteI do want to work but it's a matter of finding somebody who will employ me with the skills I have, the education level, and work experience I have.

Your taxes, driver license, SS and checks will be in your legal name and real physical gender. In a low end job you might find a employer that will let you play a game but in my experience any business that keeps you employment records will eventually leak your legal name. It is best to be upfront with all your friends and workers because it will come back and bit you. Many states allow you to change your name without a lawyer for less than $200 you have to do some research in the legal books for the form to present the judge.

To change your gender requires doctor letters.

Quote from: lisagurl on May 24, 2010, 09:01:44 PM
Your taxes, driver license, SS and checks will be in your legal name and real physical gender. In a low end job you might find a employer that will let you play a game but in my experience any business that keeps you employment records will eventually leak your legal name. It is best to be upfront with all your friends and workers because it will come back and bit you. Many states allow you to change your name without a lawyer for less than $200 you have to do some research in the legal books for the form to present the judge.

To change your gender requires doctor letters.

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

I know that my legal name and physical sex will be on documents but finding somebody that will employ me knowing this knowledge and letting me go by my name and male pronouns has been an issue.

QuoteGender and sex are not the same thing.

Perhaps, but on legal documents they are. Some states also use gender to determine legal rights in private spaces such as bathrooms. You will have problems unless you take care of the legal issues. You may get by with a carry letter from your doctor. Without some legal leg work you could be a criminal.

Quote from: lisagurl on May 24, 2010, 09:22:47 PM
Perhaps, but on legal documents they are. Some states also use gender to determine legal rights in private spaces such as bathrooms. You will have problems unless you take care of the legal issues. You may get by with a carry letter from your doctor. Without some legal leg work you could be a criminal.

I haven't had trouble with bathroom use lately. It's still sex not gender. If it were gender then it would be about what's in my head not what's in my pants. I really don't see anything criminal about taking a crap in a toilet, nor do I feel as if it's really an issue.

QuoteI really don't see anything criminal about taking a crap in a toilet, nor do I feel as if it's really an issue.

It is criminal to misrepresent yourself. With or without ENDA.  These people can help you because ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

http://srlp.org/


It is not a matter of luck but ignorance if you continue to think think the way you are thinking you will have problems.

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Post Merge: May 25, 2010, 08:36:24 AM

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Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 10:36:28 PM
What's the silver lining to being killed?

You do not have to put up with ignorance and you will have died in the name of virtue. That is much better than to live in filth.

Quote from: lisagurl on May 25, 2010, 08:31:30 AM
It is criminal to misrepresent yourself. With or without ENDA.  These people can help you because ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

http://srlp.org/


It is not a matter of luck but ignorance if you continue to think think the way you are thinking you will have problems.

Ehrm...isn't that the sort of logic used against trans people?

Would that mean if a person is trans, takes hormones without "the letter" and cannot change their legal name or legal sex must use the bathroom of their assigned gender at birth? A trans man with long sideburns should use the women's bathroom? A trans woman that has visible chest should use the men's room?

QuoteEhrm...isn't that the sort of logic used against trans people?

What is more important that humanity survives with virtue or lawlessness makes everyone's life hell?

QuoteI'd much rather be alive and living in filth than martyring myself for 'virtue'.

At least when you die it is all over, living in hell is not living. If you fear death read -
Facing Death: Epicurus and His Critics by James Warren

Values trump life.

Quote from: lisagurl on May 25, 2010, 08:13:01 PM
What is more important that humanity survives with virtue or lawlessness makes everyone's life hell?

That doesn't address my post.

QuoteThat doesn't address my post.

There is the right way to do things, then there is failure, which do you choose? It is all within your power.

No transition has been successful without conforming to the law. ENDA will not change that.

Quote from: lisagurl on May 25, 2010, 08:47:27 PM
There is the right way to do things, then there is failure, which do you choose? It is all within your power.

No transition has been successful without conforming to the law. ENDA will not change that.

Not answering my questions, again.

There's something to be said for trying to stay alive, with the hope of being able achieve the life we want (and getting that opportunity, even though it may depend heavily on people and legislators having the compassion to reject and fight against discrimination).  Being TG may be the primary thing in life for a lot of people, but it is not the only thing, either.  There are lots of everyday losses, victories, and mixed results that add dimensions to our lives, and the positives can sort of grease the gears a bit.  Besides, a lot of people have "staying alive" as one of their values, and allowing oneself to die or waste away goes against it.

ENDA can change the math so that TG people will be more likely to live their values.  While discrimination will not disappear entirely, it can discourage the practice enough that trans people are more willing to take the risk (getting fired for being trans, which will remain destructive but become less likely) for the reward (being honest and being themselves, which remains as valuable).

Quote from: lisagurl on May 25, 2010, 08:47:27 PM
No transition has been successful without conforming to the law. ENDA will not change that.

Many, perhaps most, transitions require breaking the law in small ways in order to succeed. That should be obvious, even to you.

Quote from: PanoramaIsland on May 29, 2010, 04:10:06 PM
Many, perhaps most, transitions require breaking the law in small ways in order to succeed. That should be obvious, even to you.

If you win by cheating the rules you have not won.

The United States would not have their independence from Britain if not for breaking some laws, and they most certainly "won" against Britain in my book.  Furthermore, several court cases where laws are overturned required people to first break said laws.

Laws are not universal rules, and breaking them therefore does not necessarily constitute cheating.  Even then, rule breaking often involves behavior not regarded as cheating (personal fouls, stepping out of bounds) but mere penalties and does not result in forfeiture of the game, so breaking rules or laws (even ones the player accepts) does not preclude victory.  Even players or teams who outright cheated in pro sports still often do not have to forfeit games or championships and therefore still "win."