Quote from: Kristyn on May 30, 2010, 04:51:25 PM
When you say exposed, do you mean that the vaginal canal is open and you can see inside or does it just look as though the labia have been spread?

I've seen this too many times then I want to remember, it's where the labia minora "disappear" leaving the vaginal opening as sort of a hole in the crotch (no posterior forchette) surrounded by what's left of the labia majora.

edit: mixed up front and rear, my bad

Quote from: FlanKitty on May 30, 2010, 06:37:55 PM
I've seen this too many times then I want to remember, it's where the labia minora "disappear" leaving the vaginal opening as sort of a hole in the crotch (no anterior forchette) surrounded by what's left of the labia majora.

Brassard showed me a revision that he did where the girl literally had a gaping hole between her legs and you could actually see inside.  Is this the same thing?

Quote from: Kristyn on May 30, 2010, 06:50:05 PM
Brassard showed me a revision that he did where the girl literally had a gaping hole between her legs and you could actually see inside.  Is this the same thing?

probably a more extreme version where the PC muscle is relaxed or damaged to the point where the vaginal opening doesn't stay closed (for lack of better words).

Quote from: FlanKitty on May 30, 2010, 06:59:35 PM
probably a more extreme version where the PC muscle is relaxed or damaged to the point where the vaginal opening doesn't stay closed (for lack of better words).

Why couldn't I/we have just been born with the appropriate parts

Here's a good link I found when trying to find that particular image I was talking about--read the part about clitoral sensitivity.  We are way off!

http://www.esybron.org/index.phtml?p=female

yikes now those comments make me scared, I don't want a hole 24/7 open!  Only your ears, and nostrils should be open 24/7 nothing else.

Any surgery involves risks to how your body handles it's varies to each individual. The very nature to cut into a human body to change the shape,position of skin , bones, organs,nerves, veins etc... is by itself not perfect each doctor is both a skilled surgeon and artist whom put those skills , talents to their finest for their patients. I am sorry you are having such a hard time with this. Hopefully you can get the medical care for it and recover to how you want to look ,feel.

Quote from: SaraR on May 30, 2010, 07:46:21 PM
yikes now those comments make me scared

Me Tooo and i was just starting to feel a little at ease after reading Natalie's post

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77703.msg539581.html#msg539581

Quote from: FlanKitty on May 30, 2010, 06:37:55 PM
I've seen this too many times then I want to remember, it's where the labia minora "disappear" leaving the vaginal opening as sort of a hole in the crotch (no anterior forchette) surrounded by what's left of the labia majora.

Dr Suporn does not build in a Fourchette, does Dr Brassard?  Before I had the surgery, I read a couple of posts by post-op women talking about having a revision to add a Fourchette, and I was like how picky are they!  But now that I've had the surgery, I'm wishing I had one, lol.   Without a Forchette It does make the bottom of the vulva look a bit awkward on how the labia lips kind of fade away, rather then rounding out and around the vaginal cavity.  But Dr Suporn doesn't/can't build one in, from what I understand, because of the rigors of dilating and the healing process wouldn't allow it to heal properly.


Image with a Fourchette in it.

Quote from: Melan on May 31, 2010, 08:31:54 AM
Dr Suporn does not build in a Fourchette, does Dr Brassard?  Before I had the surgery, I read a couple of posts by post-op women talking about having a revision to add a Fourchette, and I was like how picky are they!  But now that I've had the surgery, I'm wishing I had one, lol.   Without a Forchette It does make the bottom of the vulva look a bit awkward on how the labia lips kind of fade away, rather then rounding out and around the vaginal cavity.  But Dr Suporn doesn't/can't build one in, from what I understand, because of the rigors of dilating and the healing process wouldn't allow it to heal properly.


Image with a Fourchette in it.

Dr. Brassard does.  Valerie had a little trouble with hers due to torn stitches

Hi all,

Great diagram Melan, way better than the one I was going to post.  I'm adding two images to illustrate what I'm talking about.  The images are explicit, if I'm not allowed to post then I'm SORRY I don't want to get into trouble.  I know there's young people on this site.  I put them at the very bottom so at least they're not right in your face as people get to my reply.

When I say the vaginal canal is exposed, I don't mean there's just a hole and you can see right down inside the canal like in the early days of srs ie: srs at John Hopkins.
My apologies if I mislead anyone.

As FlanKitty mentioned, the labia minor disappears just above the vaginal canal leaving an opening.  The labia minor should surround this opening just as in the diagram provided by Melan.  Also, you should have to pull to the side or spread the labia minor to reveal the vaginal canal. The 1st photo I'm providing is a Dr. Brassard result I pulled from Anne Lawrence's site and is close enough to my result to illustrate what I'm talking about.

However in my case the hooding around the clitoris is fatter and as it comes down to form the labia minor it's also fatter and not quite that symmetrical.  As you can see the opening of the vaginal canal is completely visible with out having to spread anything. 

The 2nd photo I provided is post labiaplasty by another surgeon, still not perfect but a bit closer to what I was hoping for. 

Now having said that, these are just my preferences and opinions.  I'm not looking for perfection, but maybe I'm too picky so take my comments with a grain of salt.

In my case, I don't think Dr. Brassard did anything wrong at all.  Also, I'm not sure what else he could have done except for the skin graft.  As mentioned in my other post,  a skin graft could bring about other problems.  The surgeon is going to try to give you the best result with the least amount of invasive surgery, so I'm sure there's going to be trade off's.  I know he had absolutely no material left over when he was finished.  What could I have done differently?  Maybe ask the following questions:

1.   With the amount of donor material I have to offer can you show me an outcome that will be very similar to what I can expect?
2.   If I want better definition post op of the labia minor, is there a second procedure I can undertake that you offer?
3.   What difference would there be if a skin graft is used?

Going back to my previous post.  The man I was with became suspicious when he was stimulating me with his finger.  He thought the vulva had too large an opening leading to the vaginal canal.  That prompted him to have a closer look., though the light wasn't great it was enough for him wonder what happened to me.  Then in he wanted to look in even better light which revealed the fine white lines (scars) on the labia majora.  So kind of a domino effect.  The hair never really grew back there, which isn't Dr. Brassards fault.... just the way I recovered.

When I was doing my research for surgery I read about women going back for revisions to improve the appearance after the initial surgery (labiaplasty).  Like Melan I thought these women were just too picky.  I thought my result was good enough and wasn't going to bother seeking out any improvements.  It's a different story once you're post-op.  Something to consider when you're pre-op and thinking I just want this done so I can get on with life.  Also as I'm discovering, if the primary surgeon doesn't provide a labiaplasty option it may not be that easy for another surgeon to do so.

I've repeatedly read two statements: That there's a wide range in appearance of women's genitals which I agree with, however there has to be a limit.  I've also read that many guys don't really know what women's genitals look like.  Based on the guys I know quite well, I'm going to disagree with that.

I also had BA with Dr. Brassard.  Another guy I was with tells me that my breasts must be fake as they look too perfect, he then proceeds to man handle me looking for the incision scars.... I just can't win!  I know Dr. Supporn uses arm pit incisions or at least he did on all the women when I was there for FFS.

Melan: On Dr. Supporn's support club site there's one woman's result of the Forchette construction.

Kristyn:  I never knew Dr. Brassard created the Forchette.

Anyway, to answer your other questions.  I'm 5'11, 135-140lbs and athletic.  I had my surgery in the month of December.  Can I ask why you wanted to know which month?

The patients who returned to Dr. Supporn for revisions due to necrosis were all his patients.  To date I personally haven't heard of any of Dr. Brassard's patients experiencing necrosis.

The asymmetry was so minor, that's why I didn't worry about it.  Dr. Brassard never gave me an explanation as to why it occurs.  A guess would be that there's so much stretching due to swelling.  The whole surgery area was swollen 4 times it's normal size.  Apparently it's not that swollen while they put everything together, but it still amazes me how they manage to get anything that looks half decent in the end.





Again, if posting the images is a no no, I'm sorry.  I'll assume diagrams are ok?

Quote from: michelle_h on May 31, 2010, 01:15:28 PM

Quote
As FlanKitty mentioned, the labia minor disappears just above the vaginal canal leaving an opening.  The labia minor should surround this opening just as in the diagram provided by Melan.  Also, you should have to pull to the side or spread the labia minor to reveal the vaginal canal. The 1st photo I'm providing is a Dr. Brassard result I pulled from Anne Lawrence's site and is close enough to my result to illustrate what I'm talking about.

I really don't see anything wrong with that image.  As A matter of fact, I saw that image a while back shortly after my consult with Dr. Brassard and thought that I would actually be happy with a similar result.  If I'm correct that image is a result from 2000 and is a little less than a year post op.  I would like to actually see what this particular result looks like today.

Quote
However in my case the hooding around the clitoris is fatter and as it comes down to form the labia minor it's also fatter and not quite that symmetrical.  As you can see the opening of the vaginal canal is completely visible with out having to spread anything. 

I'm guessing that this womans legs are spread which can give the appearance of a wider opening, or am I wrong?

Quote
The 2nd photo I provided is post labiaplasty by another surgeon, still not perfect but a bit closer to what I was hoping for.

I'm not too impressed with the second result as the clitoris looks like some sort of growth.  I believe this is a Dr. Schrang result

Quote
Now having said that, these are just my preferences and opinions.  I'm not looking for perfection, but maybe I'm too picky so take my comments with a grain of salt.

I don't think you are being too picky at all

Quote
In my case, I don't think Dr. Brassard did anything wrong at all.  Also, I'm not sure what else he could have done except for the skin graft.  As mentioned in my other post,  a skin graft could bring about other problems.  The surgeon is going to try to give you the best result with the least amount of invasive surgery, so I'm sure there's going to be trade off's.  I know he had absolutely no material left over when he was finished.  What could I have done differently?  Maybe ask the following questions:

1.   With the amount of donor material I have to offer can you show me an outcome that will be very similar to what I can expect?
2.   If I want better definition post op of the labia minor, is there a second procedure I can undertake that you offer?
3.   What difference would there be if a skin graft is used?

These are all very good questions.  The one thing I will express to Dr Brassard is the final aesthetic outcome.  If a skin graft is required than take one--I just don't want to be left with too much skin as I've heard from other patients.  Depth I'd be happy with his standard and functionality is a crap shoot

Quote
Going back to my previous post.  The man I was with became suspicious when he was stimulating me with his finger.  He thought the vulva had too large an opening leading to the vaginal canal.  That prompted him to have a closer look., though the light wasn't great it was enough for him wonder what happened to me.  Then in he wanted to look in even better light which revealed the fine white lines (scars) on the labia majora.  So kind of a domino effect.  The hair never really grew back there, which isn't Dr. Brassards fault.... just the way I recovered.

Have other men reacted similarly? 

Quote
I also had BA with Dr. Brassard.  Another guy I was with tells me that my breasts must be fake as they look too perfect, he then proceeds to man handle me looking for the incision scars.... I just can't win!  I know Dr. Supporn uses arm pit incisions or at least he did on all the women when I was there for FFS.

Honey, I don't think it's you but rather the men you are attracting.  I'm not sure where you are from, but to me they sound much like the insecure little boys who inhabit Toronto, where I live.

Quote
Kristyn:  I never knew Dr. Brassard created the Forchette.

Sorry, I was under the impression that he did.  I believe Valerie has already answered this one.

Quote
Anyway, to answer your other questions.  I'm 5'11, 135-140lbs and athletic.  I had my surgery in the month of December.  Can I ask why you wanted to know which month?

You sound much like me.  I'm wondering if the lack of fat in that general area has much to do with the final aesthetic results.  I was curious as to what month your surgery was performed because I was wondering if it was possibly done during one of their busier times, like July prior to their summer shut down.

Quote
The patients who returned to Dr. Supporn for revisions due to necrosis were all his patients.  To date I personally haven't heard of any of Dr. Brassard's patients experiencing necrosis.

I feel for those that have suffered necrosis, but I'm relieved to hear that you've never heard of any Brassard patients who have.  Necrosis is one of my biggest fears next to fistula.

Thanks Michelle!

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 31, 2010, 06:09:30 PM
The location of my injury is where in pic #1 the scars from each side meet at the bottom. There were stitches there, as I mentioned. So technically that is not a fourchette if the definition is limited to the labia minora. It is a fork however in our case, so it may be an appropriate term.

Ah, yes.  The fork in the vagina

Quote from: SaraR on May 30, 2010, 11:52:58 AMFor me, I cannot be discouraged in either way when it comes down to surgery except for being denied at the last minute.. but i took my blood test early to wave that possibility. To me, its about having no penis + scrotal sack then having a canal and esthetics.

If I were to be flat down there and just has a uretha hole.. id be satisfied.. so anything else should/will be satisfactory.

I'm with you hon, I can't be discouraged either. And now I know I passed all my pre-op tests I'm finally allowing myself to get excited about it actually happening! I wish you all good luck with your surgeries and healing. 

Good luck Chloe I passed all my Preop test as of today too, but they don't count for the final surgery since they need to be 6 weeks fresh.

However im glad to know nothing is wrong at the moment.

Quote from: SaraR on May 31, 2010, 06:23:07 PM
Good luck Chloe I passed all my Preop test as of today too, but they don't count for the final surgery since they need to be 6 weeks fresh.

However im glad to know nothing is wrong at the moment.

I thought that as long as the tests were done no earlier that 3 months they were good.

PRE OPERATIVE ANALYSIS: LABORATORY REPORTS :
As this is a major surgical procedure, under general anesthesia, the patient must pass the following tests about
two months before the date of the surgery and the results of these exams must be sent to our office one month
prior to the date set for the surgery. Without these test results, there will be no surgery. PLEASE WAIT TO
HAVE A DATE OF SURGERY BEFORE HAVING YOUR PRE-OPERATIVE TESTS DONE. Tests that were
done more than 3 months prior the surgery date will be considered unusable and will have to be redone.

Brassard does 6 weeks.

mine had to be finished and results in by one month prior to surgery date, the same as what you posted there Jessica 

Hi Kristyn,

QuoteIf I'm correct that image is a result from 2000 and is a little less than a year post op.

Unless Anne got the dates wrong, that first image is 2006.  I'm not sure how many months post-op that result would be.  As mentioned before, that's a pretty close match to my result and I'm 3.5 years post op and nothing has changed.

QuoteI'm guessing that this womans legs are spread which can give the appearance of a wider opening, or am I wrong?

In my case, I barely have to spread my legs to have the same appearance.

QuoteI'm not too impressed with the second result as the clitoris looks like some sort of growth.  I believe this is a Dr. Schrang result

I should have been more specific about what I like.  I don't like the clitoris area either, however I like fact that the labia minor appears to enclose the vaginal opening.  You are correct, that result is from Dr. Schrang.

QuoteQuote
Going back to my previous post.  The man I was with became suspicious when he was stimulating me with his finger.  He thought the vulva had too large an opening leading to the vaginal canal.  That prompted him to have a closer look., though the light wasn't great it was enough for him wonder what happened to me.  Then in he wanted to look in even better light which revealed the fine white lines (scars) on the labia majora.  So kind of a domino effect.  The hair never really grew back there, which isn't Dr. Brassards fault.... just the way I recovered.

Have other men reacted similarly? 

After that incident I've been very careful not to let any man see that part of me. If I'm standing it's impossible to tell the difference between me and a natal female.

QuoteYou sound much like me.  I'm wondering if the lack of fat in that general area has much to do with the final aesthetic results.  I was curious as to what month your surgery was performed because I was wondering if it was possibly done during one of their busier times, like July prior to their summer shut down.

Not really sure how body fat will affect the outcome.  Sounds like you have a good question to ask.  Surgery date was Dec 12. I was the last one before the Christmas break.

QuoteI feel for those that have suffered necrosis, but I'm relieved to hear that you've never heard of any Brassard patients who have.  Necrosis is one of my biggest fears next to fistula.

Regarding the women I met I think it sounds worse than it really was.  No one seemed too freaked out.  Dr. Suporn fixed them all up like it was no big deal and off home they went.

One poor lady was there because she had fallen asleep with the dialator inside her.  She caused some significant damage when she removed the dialator.  I felt so bad for her, because she had to save airfare money for a whole year before returning for the repair job.  In the end it all turned out good.

Despite my own criticism of my results, I do believe Dr. Brassard did a fine job on me.

I certainly hope I didn't discourage anyone as that wasn't my intent.  Just wanted to supply some food for thought.

Sara and Chloe, I wish you all the best.  I'm happy and excited for you.  If you're on your way to Montreal, say hi to Chantal for me.  She's a sweet heart!

Michelle

I will be a Brassard graduate, ill say hi for you.

So sorry to hear about this Melan. Hang in there hon. <big nero hug>