Have any of you had to deal with a conflict between transitioning and Masonry?

My partner did. Obviously it was a long time before we met but she has spoken to me about the conflict, and I know it was not easy for her, particularly because she was royal arch.

In the end she had to resign from lodge.

Personally I've never been into those kinds of ritual. My path to the light is more of a feminine earth magic one, but I do have a good understanding of the principles involved in masonry. Actually I did wonder when I saw your token.

If you want to ask Ali a specific question then PM me and I'll get her to reply.

I'm not far along enough in transition for it to have become a significant issue outside my own head yet. But I'm an officer in the Lodge and fairly high profile in a variety of ways.

Letting go of all that is proving painful. :/

And you were right about the token. heh

Quote from: Vanessa_yhvh on June 18, 2010, 07:21:10 AM
I'm not far along enough in transition for it to have become a significant issue outside my own head yet. But I'm an officer in the Lodge and fairly high profile in a variety of ways.

Letting go of all that is proving painful. :/

Alison was also a officer and high profile master mason, ironically as was the man who did both of our surgeries. He joked to Alison at the time that he was "the man who made masons into masonettes!"

Like you she found it very difficult to let go. There is a ladies lodge in our area and at one point she was trying to persuade me that we should join it, we did get invited, but ultimately we decided against.

Quote
And you were right about the token. heh

Sorry to speak in slightly oblique language there. Although I have never, in this lifetime, been a master mason I too have recieved advanced initiations and training in a female mystical tradition, the roots of which stretch back for time immemorial. So indeed, if you will forgive a slightly borrowed phrase, "at my initiation I was taught to be cautious!" 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've considered following in my grandfather's footsteps and joining a lodge.  I'm wondering, though, is there anything in the initiation/rituals/etc. that would end up outing me?   

Quite possibly - depending on how good your surgery was.

You must bare your left breast and right leg to the knee. The purpose of which is basically to prove you have male body hair and no breast development (or indeed obvious scars from surgery).

There are other items also, but the main point is that as masonry, like any such discipline and fellowship, is built on the principles of trust and honesty, there would be those in lodge that would regard any attempt to deceive about your history as proof that you were an unworthy candidate. From what I know I would guess that some lodges might accept your situation post-operatively, as indeed there were some womens lodges who were in theory willing to accept us, had we chosen to tke them up, but the price would be full and frank prior disclosure, offered freely, but discretely to the appropriate people.

Be in no doubt such organisations do make extensive enquires into the background and circumstances of candidates and if you attemped to gain entry without dsclosure there is a very good chance that your, as some would see it, "lack of candour" would be uncovered and you would then be black balled.

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 18, 2010, 08:34:45 AM
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've considered following in my grandfather's footsteps and joining a lodge.  I'm wondering, though, is there anything in the initiation/rituals/etc. that would end up outing me?

By the time you made it to Master Mason, you'd have exposed everything but the area between your waist and above the knee.

Most investigations aren't insanely thorough these days, really. But the way Masonry works, you'll have a better time of it if you find yourself in a Lodge at which you are welcome for who you are. At least in my jurisdiction, these become some of your best running buddies.

I hold Masonry in very high esteem and wouldn't discourage any worthy candidate from pursuing it.

I'm so happy to have found this thread. Thanks for all the input. Above it says that if you have noticeable scars from surgery that might work against you? I definitely have scars, but undoubtedly pass as male beyond that. Will that really be an issue? Thank you all again.

I would say it depends on the lodge you go to... but, yeah, I can see the conflict between the brotherhood vs transitioning (although, cross-dressing isn't something new in their experience, but I'm unsure about fully-transitioning). I'm familiar with freemasonary, but never joined (thought of it). I went through the mormon temple ritual, which is a bastardized freemasonary rite. I'm not really in contact with any freemasons at the moment like i was in the past. *shrugs*

The conflict between my gender identity & the requirements of Freemasonry in my jurisdiction have been stressing me out like mad. I came this close to just quitting this week, but it didn't quite go down, as I elaborated in this YouTube vid:



(I am going to have to start presenting feminine in my videos.  )

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Post Merge: July 03, 2010, 11:04:16 PM

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Quote from: TheSwede on July 03, 2010, 06:56:08 PM
I'm so happy to have found this thread. Thanks for all the input. Above it says that if you have noticeable scars from surgery that might work against you? I definitely have scars, but undoubtedly pass as male beyond that. Will that really be an issue? Thank you all again.

Based on my own Masonic experience, I'd say that unless you're stealth, it's best to disclose one's trans status during the process of joining. The bond between Masons can be a very special one if you're free to be yourselves together.

OK, my tale has taken some peculiar turns.

I went to Lodge and said I think I need to demit because I'm transgender and my body's changing at a faster clip than my doctor & I expected.

A day later, various Masons have consulted with one another, and (skipping a ton of tedious details) it seems I can't actually quit. Nor do they want to kick me out.

I even dug through Masonic Law in this jurisdiction and found that they probably couldn't bring me up on charges even if they wanted to, because I'm under treatment for GID.

I received various suggestions ranging from de-transitioning (which wasn't offered as an option to be taken seriously, but just on the list of things one might choose to do) to simply not going to Lodge any more.

All those who know so far still want to be my Brothers and expect that most others will follow suit. I retain all the rights and benefits of a Master Mason.

The one thing that doesn't seem to be much of an option is to continue to actively participate in Lodge functions while presenting as female. Nobody brought that up, because we all just know it's not on the table.

My main question was, "Why can't I just tell the Lodge that I can't be a Mason any more because I'm not the guy they raised?"

Strange stuff. Just thought I'd post an update on the situation.

I had 3 people willing to sponsor me into the order pre transition, needless to say 2 of them have dropped that since...

The 3rd though on the other hand had the idea of sponsoring me into some side order which allowed women to join. *shrugs* don't remember what it was called, and don't really care.

I still find it strange that 2 of these people were friends of my fathers, yet never offered to sponsor him.

Signing on the dotted line for somebody to join a Lodge can be tricky business. At least in my jurisdiction, the signers are vouching for the petitioner as somebody who would fit in well.

If a potential voucher senses that one or more members of the Lodge will black ball a candidate, it's actually best to just withdraw the offer, as even one negative vote settles the matter.

And I imagine it's not too hard to find *one guy* in an entire Lodge of Masons who isn't comfortable with a transitioner going through the degrees.

I was asked, and didn't join because that particular Lodge did not support female members.
There are Freemason lodges where both men and women are welcome, though they're quite rare.
There's also lodges purely for women.

It might be worth switching Lodge. That way, you don't have to pretend you're still a Mason when discouraged to go to Lodge, and you can still hang out with the other Masons on non-Lodge meetings.
Either that, or you could start a Lodge yourself... I don't know the procedures of that one, but hey.. A Lodge where all genders are welcome. Of course; that might cause friction, because there might be members of your current Lodge who like that idea... And you get a schism.

Anyway; all the luck to you. I hope you don't have to give it up, if you hold it so dearly.

In my case, I've done my duty as a Master Mason by bringing the matter to the attention of both the Lodge and the Grand Lodge.

In a more perfect universe, it would be good to see them vote in a new Law enabling transitioning Masons to sever the affiliation at the next reasonable opportunity.

But I'm good at this point. Now that I have equipped them with knowledge of my situation, they're on the hunt to find others to fulfill my responsibilities.

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on July 16, 2010, 04:16:38 PMIn the US it is very hard to move up in any municipal government job without being one.  The FBI was notorious, with J Edgar Hoover a leading Freemason. Americans really need to understand the depth of the "secret handshake" deals that go on.  At least in England, Masons who are cops, judges, lawyers and others with dealings concerning the rights of others are Required to declare that they are in fact Freemasons.  This is so because there are certain oaths, upon penalty of death, that require any Freemason to back another one over any non-freemason.  I can see how enticing a thing that would be. For white males.  I also see how it results in the numerous scandals that have plagued the order. Do a search on "Freemasonry watch" and read some of the stories.  You can also find "monitors" that have the entire "secrets" revealed online.  Pretty boring stuff.  Certainly not the type of stuff that any typical American politician cares about, except to the extent it gets him ahead.  As I said, the real deal is the access to a life with your ass in a tub of butter, built on the backs of others.

Wow. I'm sorry you had such an unpleasant experience. That's not the kind of Freemasonry we do down here, fortunately.

I'm familiar with Freemasonry Watch and similar efforts. Some of the boys find some habitual amusement in chatting about the differences between what's kicked around there and the reality with which we're familiar.

Taking oaths such as you describe would be considered grounds for an "Unmasonic Conduct" charge here. My transition is arguably "Unmasonic" in the sense that I am resolved to live the rest of my life as a woman, and no woman may be made a Master Mason in this jurisdiction. My transition doesn't strip me of my status, though, although that's almost a technicality.

I don't say any of this from fear for my life (and let's be honest, if I feared for my life, I wouldn't be on the internet talking about being a trans Freemason), but from love for my Brothers and the Fraternity.

I'll say this, though... Nobody should ever join an organization devoted to evil, whatever it's called. So by all means, steer well clear of that sort of thing.