I know this is the androgynous board, but I didn't see a bigender one, figured this is somewhat close :-P.  How would one know if they're bigender?  If you are bigender, how would you tell people?  Sometime I wonder if I am, but I have a hard enough time already convincing people I'm a girl, I don't even wanna get involved in it :-p.  Are there different kinds of bigender?  How would you know if you're only one gender?  E.g. androgynes how do you know you're not both a guy & a girl, but in between?

actually and very honestly i don't quite have 'type' for myself . i know i'm a genderqueer and that i get dysphoric . other than that would take too long to explain , not to mention analyze or such . and after all i know exactly what i am and want , or i think i almost do . so what would the name be for 

My understanding is that this board applies a very broad definition to Androgyne, so that it will include people who are bigender as well as those who are physically androgynous, and ideed those of us who whilst basically identifying as one gender (female in my case) have the ability and desire to be chameleons and disguise our underlying gender at times in order to blend in and be accepted by a group of a different gender.

So you are in the right place.

But as to whether you choose to declare your feelings, that is up to you. I don't bother trying to explain to my friends what it means to be a gender chameleon. I just get on with being one and enjoying the additional freedom which it brings.

Well I feel like I have to constantly justify my femininity, eat a certain way, talk a certain way, stand a certain way, listen to certain music, read certain books, do this, don't do that :-P.  My biology and upbringing of course means I do have to change in order to present myself as my correct gender.  And though I never feel male certainly, and I pretty much always think of myself as a girl, sometimes I feel something else too :-p.  Almost like if I was bigender with female and then layered with a genderfluid 3rd gender.  How on earth am I supposed to explain that?  I love being a girl, I am a girl, but I don't feel like that's the whole story sometimes :-p.

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Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 06:36:14 AM

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I'm sure an APA psychiatrist would say it's my buried male psyche and exploring it would be a good reason to continue denying me my hormones :-(, gaaaaaaaaa :-O lolz

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 06:32:43 AMHow on earth am I supposed to explain that?

Protip: You aren't supposed to explain it, just accept that it is how you are and let yourself be.

While I'm not sure what bigenderness is like, I've found that actually *talking* about androgyny is pretty much a pointless endeavour. Those who understand already know, and those who don't understand never will.

If anybody should "explore" that part of you, IMHO, would be your significant other.

Finally, you don't have to justify yourself as female or otherwise, just do what you are comfortable with and that's it.
I've heard a few times about girls who transition and then feel trapped in another closet, not being able to express their transness openly and stuff.
That sounds annoying as eff.

Lots of hugs and good wishes, girl!

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 06:32:43 AM
Well I feel like I have to constantly justify my femininity, eat a certain way, talk a certain way, stand a certain way, listen to certain music, read certain books, do this, don't do that :-P.  My biology and upbringing of course means I do have to change in order to present myself as my correct gender.  And though I never feel male certainly, and I pretty much always think of myself as a girl, sometimes I feel something else too :-p.  Almost like if I was bigender with female and then layered with a genderfluid 3rd gender.  How on earth am I supposed to explain that?  I love being a girl, I am a girl, but I don't feel like that's the whole story sometimes :-p.

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Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 06:36:14 AM

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I'm sure an APA psychiatrist would say it's my buried male psyche and exploring it would be a good reason to continue denying me my hormones :-(, gaaaaaaaaa :-O lolz

I think, while you are transitioning you just do your best to conform to other peoples expectations. Then afterwards you can do what you like within reason... after all they hardly sew it back on after you are postop. 

I have no doubt that there may indeed a male psyche in there to be explored. We all have one, even natal females do. They are the Jungian archetypes known as the animus and the anima. This is not anything to do with being bigender or twospirit or anything like that. They are defined by a psychologist as sub personalaties, kind of the masculine elements of our personality and the feminine ones, as the truth is every human being alive is a mixture of both. The trouble is when you are transitioning people tend to expect you to become the ultra typical version of you new gender and conform to every aspect of it, even though they themselves will very rarely conform completely.

But since when has it been the case that you need a psychiatrist to explore your own inner self. All you need is a bit of insight and the will to introspect and not run away from the things that you find lurking in the hidden recesses. I seriously doubt though that anything you will find will change your desire to transition.

I don't think it is necessary to even mention this to a psychiatrist unless of course you want to be delayed and to spend time going round in circles. It's absolutely your choice - they are there to help you, not you there to help them. If you find it disturbing and and feel that it something you NEED to explore before proceeding then fine, talk about it. If not, then don't, and just make a mental note to come back later and explore it by yourself.

Ooh bigender, that's an old one. Let me sweep the dust from my memorycloset first...

First off; the reason why there isn't a bigender forum is because we're one big, bunch here that use 'androgyne' more as an umbrella term. So there's androgynes, genderfluids, neutrois, nullgenders, bigenders, some that define as third gender... There's also male and female identified genders that simply don't feel a fullblown man or woman... Really, it's one big party...

Now to answer your questions about Bigender: some who is bigendered feels male and female at seperate times. They're never in the middle but switch on the binary between left and right. As to how they would know... That's one bettere answered by someone who identifies as bigender. However, I'd suspect they feel 'completely' male at one point and 'completely' female the next.
Often confused with bigender is genderfluid: an individual who dances across the binary scale. They glide from male to inbetween to female and everything between that so there's no real 'switch' like with bigendered. I'm sure there's different bigendered folk out there who all have their own way of dealing with their identity.

How would you know if you're only one gender?... I guess you can better revise that as 'how would you know you're not two genders?'... wait whaa-... Well that makes the question easier to answer. Someone's who identifies as bigender doesn't identify as both male and female - they identify as bigender: an harmonious marriage between two binaries in one gender. Ehhh?... Well I never said my answer wouldn't be confusing..

Personally I know I'm not male, I'm not female and I'm not inbetween. I'm nullgendered, a selfconstrained neutrois. I'm androgyne. Take a transsexual for example... They know they're not their birthsex gender wise. It's a feeling I share. It's where the two come together androgyne and transsexual. Yet where they come together they also split again for one finds the opposite of their birthsex their true gender while for the other that same initital feeling 'this is not my gender' is repeated. You have those Androgynes who feel fine there, right in the middle, those who wander from left to right, those who teleport from left to right, and those who go 'screw this' and jump from the binary scale altogether. In the end there's only a sense of self, of right and wrong - simple feelings.

And that concludes my wall of text.

Quote from: no_id on July 16, 2010, 07:06:49 AM
... there's androgynes, genderfluids, neutrois, nullgenders, bigenders, some that define as third gender... There's also male and female identified genders that simply don't feel a fullblown man or woman... Really, it's one big party...

And then there's Jenny - who isn't really any of those things, but simply comes in here for the fun, occasional discussions about fruitcake, and because she gets offered a better cup of tea and more sandwiches in here than in the other forum sections!

Its a broad friendly and welcoming church even if some of us are awkward enough not to fit any of the label in the list.

I want some fruitcake lol, but none of what you all said corresponds to how I feel lol.  I hate being a guy, since' I'm not one, and I love being a girl, because I am one, but I still feel like there's something missing in that picture :-P.  All I can think of is that I might have two genders (like someone can have two orientations), the second gender being a third gender of some sort, neither male nor female....

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Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 08:23:32 AM

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and @Rejenny an (ahem) on the snip comment lolz

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 08:21:37 AM
I want some fruitcake lol, but none of what you all said corresponds to how I feel lol.  I hate being a guy, since' I'm not one, and I love being a girl, because I am one, but I still feel like there's something missing in that picture :-P.  All I can think of is that I might have two genders (like someone can have two orientations), the second gender being a third gender of some sort, neither male nor female....

Well that is my point really - you don't have to feel that you fit with anyone else in this section to feel welcome in here.

I feel I am unambiguously female, I love being female too, but from time to time I also enjoy PLAYING at being male - in a sort of female to male psychological crossdressing way Now that clearly doesn't fit either... but I am still made welcome and so will you be.

Well the only other thing I can think of is it's my testosterone interfering with my feminine thought processes lol :-p.  Yet another reason I want to get on hormones so bad, I'm hoping estrogen will quash it (the uneasiness).

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 05:53:59 AMI know this is the androgynous board, but I didn't see a bigender one

Good grief, that describes me, when I was younger people used get confused as to what gender I was. Now that I present less androgynous, It happens less frequently. But if I've shaved, and in a certain light, I sometimes still get mamed. I suppose, it's to do with the I express myself and carry myself. I don't really notice myself.

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 08:21:37 AM
I want some fruitcake lol, but none of what you all said corresponds to how I feel lol.

As long as you don't feel a need to shoot the messenger I'm cool with that.

Quote from: ativan on July 16, 2010, 11:13:21 AM
I don't feel welcome here......despite feeling a closeness to many here that identify as androgyne

Maybe what you feel is a projection of your own expectations of being rejected. People are not as judgmental as you may think. (that's enough cod amateur psychology) .. 

Quote from: ativan on July 16, 2010, 12:46:22 PM
  Gonna go lay by my dish now.......

And I'm gonna go and talk to my plant .. 

I've always seen it that Bigender is just another response to the problem of feeling neither male or female - that that problem is central to all AG types, and their own upbringing and personality and such determine how it is going to be dealt with.

I'm starting to think I might identify more as bi-gender than FTM.  Or maybe I just haven't figured myself out yet.  I keep going from feeling completely like a guy to feeling more or less like a girl.  I just went clothes shopping for my new teaching job and I bought so many skirts and femine clothes.  I wanted to be all pretty in a flowy skirt but the past few days I've switched back and wish I could wear a shirt and tie to my new job.  I even had a dream last night about wearing a suit and being read as a guy (although in the dream I felt guilty-- like I was lying to the person reading me as a guy).  Idk.  I think I'm still working this out.

I know that people like to have a label for everything, but I think that this is an instance that a label wouldn't be a good idea.  Everybody has a unique gender identity/expression. Categories have been made to help us find others in similar situations. (Transsexual, genderfluid, etc.)  In your case, there is no nice little box to put you in.

As for explaining yourself to other people, (which you shouldn't have to do in the first place) I would say: "I am a girl, and like all other girls I am unique.  I don't have to like stereotypically girly things to be comfortable with my own gender.  I do have some self exploration to do of course, but it won't change who I am."  This is a pretty basic thing that most people can understand.  A lot of people will become confused in conversations about bigender/third gender issues.  Don't let this stop you from discussing yourself to trusted friends, of course.

On the subject of "How do you know?":  Some people have very defined gender identity.  For example: If you feel like a man, want to look like a man, like manly things... it's pretty easy to realize that you are a man.  For people with more ambiguous likes and dislikes and self-image issues it can be confusing to find a label you are comfortable with.  This is okay though because you don't need one.  You can even make one up that you think suits you best!  If you want to decide if a certain label suits you and fits with how you view yourself, just try saying it out loud to yourself.  "I am bi-gendered.  I am a women, yet I am another."  Does it feel right?  Usually your subconscious is better at knowing these things, so you'll have to see if it "feels right".  Just as there is no "true transsexual" I'm sure there is no "true bi-gender", it's up for your own interpretation.

Hi transnikki,
I self identify as bigender and would like to share a few insights with you.

How would one know if they're bigender?  
For me, I have a strong need to express myself as solidly male OR solidly female and I am equally dysphoric about being either. It took a transition level HRT regiment for me to be comfortable in my skin.

If you are bigender, how would you tell people? 
I can't really help wioth this one. Although I present as male or female, the only people who know me as both are my wife and my medical professionals.

Are there different kinds of bigender?  
A few that I am aware of, but bigenders are amazingly the same regardless of birth sex. Some of us are content with psychological expression of our other gender, others like myself need to present in public as both genders, some are HRT, others not. There is an excellent bigender forum at http://www.bigender.net

How would you know if you're only one gender? 
What exactly causes the switch is different for different people, but bigenders are simply not comfortable when they are only able to express themslves as one gender or the other.

I'm so glad someone voiced these questions here. I've been struggling with figuring out a label for myself...bigender, genderfluid, androgynous. >.>; SnailPace, I believe you're on-point saying a person doesn't necessarily need a label. One part of me sees a lot of wisdom in that statement......if only I could convince all of me not to worry so much about it!

Virginia - thanks for that link. I've still got a lot of exploring and learning to do. (guess that's why I just joined here  ) I know how I personally feel, but its still ridiculously difficult for me to actually put those feelings into words.