Quote from: Susan on April 03, 2009, 02:51:31 AM
If the only reason you have not had GRS surgery is the cost, then you would be pre-op not non-op...

definitely

"RRRrribbbbbbit!"

Quote from: Hillarync on July 15, 2010, 11:32:17 AM
I choose to be non-op like a person chooses to be trans.

Hmmmmmm...  I don't think that we chose to be be trans, it's the way we were born.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: Ladyrider on July 28, 2010, 07:18:07 AM
Hmmmmmm...  I don't think that we chose to be be trans, it's the way we were born.

-={LR}=-

That's exactly my logic.... re-read. evaluate. comprehend.

Quote from: Hillarync on July 28, 2010, 03:38:19 PM
That's exactly my logic.... re-read. evaluate. comprehend.

Fail - I didn't choose to be trans, whereas you choose to be non-op.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: Ladyrider on July 28, 2010, 05:03:06 PM
Fail - I didn't choose to be trans, whereas you choose to be non-op.

-={LR}=-

Wow, how do you decide who chooses what?  Without getting philosophical, perhaps what we call a non-op trans is inborn as you believe being a "non-"non-op trans is.

I personally make no opinion on the subject, but I find it interesting that someone trans would claim that their version of trans is inborn while another's is a choice.

It's about responsibility Interalia, you have all of it, she has none.

Quote from: Ladyrider on July 28, 2010, 05:03:06 PM
Fail - I didn't choose to be trans, whereas you choose to be non-op.

-={LR}=-

I just want to note that this sort of statement is totally unacceptable on our forum, to suggest that being non-op is a failure.

Normally I would delete such hurtful comments but I really enjoyed Interalias and Teklas responses. Thanks guys.

Cheers
Nicole

I feel like being "non-op" is a part of my identity just as much as being trans is.
If this makes me less "pure" of a female in your perception that's fine, I don't care.
I identify as female. I am a female.

Not undergoing GRS does not make my transition "incomplete".
I cannot possibly express why my identity is the way that it is.
I don't claim to know why I am who I am.

We all transition to become ourselves, how we feel and know ourselves.
The semantics of my original statement might be better portrayed as:
"I choose to be non-op just the same as one chooses to become post-op"

Not every trans-person has the same journey, nor the same destination.

Quote from: Hillarync on July 29, 2010, 10:42:17 AM
I feel like being "non-op" is a part of my identity just as much as being trans is.
If this makes me less "pure" of a female in your perception that's fine, I don't care.
I identify as female. I am a female.

Not undergoing GRS does not make my transition "incomplete".
I cannot possibly express why my identity is the way that it is.
I don't claim to know why I am who I am.

We all transition to become ourselves, how we feel and know ourselves.
The semantics of my original statement might be better portrayed as:
"I choose to be non-op just the same as one chooses to become post-op"

Not every trans-person has the same journey, nor the same destination.

The problem is that we have various levels of GID.  Mine is extreme to the point i can not envision my life with anything but the right parts between my legs.  For people like me we cant imagine anyone who is TS wanting to keep that thing, however, your level of Disphoria might not be to the same as mine or even more so, you level of tolerance and control could be higher then mine, your able to handle it while we cannot, doesnt make you any less TS, that aspect of being TS just doesnt bug you as much. 

Thats how i see it.

The only time i see it as being a choice is if you choose to do it for money and not to fix anything internally.  You cannot deny that some men take hormones to go into the adult industries, maybe they have a tough time making it on their own, or whatever.. but there are people that make the choice to take HRT but they are not TS.

I only had the surgery because I needed to feel as complete as I could, but seeing that I thought I was not going to have another relationship with anyone else of either sex, so I could have stayed non-op and feel as complete as I needed to be.

I now have a partner of the same sex. M-F and we are a married couple and we are happy to share intimacy 24-7 without sex. Inborn or not inborn, who am I to say or pass judgment? I am not the one to make such psychological and physical analysis about any one else, except by the behavior or symptoms

Cindy.

The problem with LR's comments is how grounded they are in physical biology.  And biology isn't that simple to cleanly define the genders as she'd like to believe.

I was identified male at birth and raised male despite the fact my biology was and is somewhere in between.  For me GID arose mostly because my societal roles were out of synch; the physical elements were less out of synch with my perceived gender.

When I started to transition - the changes from HRT resolved the physical triggers sufficient enough it was controllable -- when coupled with living female my GID became practically non-existent.

At no point have any medical professionals (all of whom follow the SoC)  questioned my transition.  I'm fully accepted into society as a female (to the point where I have difficulty convincing people I do out myself to that I have divergent biology).  It's ironic that only in the trans community that I find people lacking in acceptance.  I often wonder if there's a fear on their part that my existence could de-legitimize theirs?  I can't understand where else statements like LR's come from...

@ Zumi

If I had not began hormone treatment I would have killed myself. I do understand that I'm probably
somewhere in the gender spectrum that isn't the vanilla MtF hormones > GRS. I'm fine with that.

I would say there are different forms of dysphoria, but to assume another's is "easier to deal with"
is utterly ignorant.

edit: for crankiness

Quote from: Nicky on July 29, 2010, 04:50:31 AM
I just want to note that this sort of statement is totally unacceptable on our forum, to suggest that being non-op is a failure.

Normally I would delete such hurtful comments but I really enjoyed Interalias and Teklas responses. Thanks guys.

Cheers
Nicole

Well, it's a good thing she wasn't suggesting that, then! She was saying that Hillary failed to comprehend what she saw as a plainly obvious point she was making. Now, she could have said so in a nicer (albeit more wordy) manner; furthermore, I think she was wrong, and telling someone else that their identity is "a choice" tends to be seriously problematic. But I don't think anything she said was quite as abusive as what you understood her to say.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 29, 2010, 08:01:43 PM
Well, it's a good thing she wasn't suggesting that, then! She was saying that Hillary failed to comprehend what she saw as a plainly obvious point she was making. Now, she could have said so in a nicer (albeit more wordy) manner; furthermore, I think she was wrong, and telling someone else that their identity is "a choice" tends to be seriously problematic. But I don't think anything she said was quite as abusive as what you understood her to say.

alyssa,

LR has a history in coming in here and claiming Non-Op transpeople aren't trans.  Her intent was pretty obvious.  It's a ->-bleeped-<-ty thing to see in a support forum.

If you have any concerns over my actions send me a pm or contact susan thanks! (rather than discuss it out here), happy to seek a second opinion.

Cheers
Nicole

Please forgive me for intruding, but isn't the whole point of being transsexual that gender and sex aren't the same thing? So what would make a non op any less of a woman just because she has a penis? I see a lot of mtfs shun non ops and it does disappoint me.

I was really surprised that some people here are so unaccepting of us who have doubts about surgery or just simply don't want to go through with it.

My biggest concern is the fact that I might not have enough physical material for the best surgical result.
So at the moment I am not ready to be sliced and diced and then realize that I'm not happy with my new genitals.
I will not take that risk even though I've wanted the surgery since I was a child. It's just that now I know it isn't that easy.

Quote from: Fata Morgana on July 30, 2010, 08:31:16 AM
I was really surprised that some people here are so unaccepting of us who have doubts about surgery or just simply don't want to go through with it.

My biggest concern is the fact that I might not have enough physical material for the best surgical result.
So at the moment I am not ready to be sliced and diced and then realize that I'm not happy with my new genitals.
I will not take that risk even though I've wanted the surgery since I was a child. It's just that now I know it isn't that easy.

I honestly kind of feel the same. When I was a child, I wanted to be completely physically female. Like many others,
I'm sure, I would cry myself to sleep hoping and praying that I would wake up as a girl bottom parts and all.
It could be that I've just become so frightened and overwhelmed with what I'd have to go through, but I
don't know. If I could push a button and have real female genitalia, rather than the neo-vagina that is produced
through surgery, I would not hesitate to mash the heck out of it.

I have been transitioning alone for ~2 years. It's been really scary. I do intend to have an orchi whenever
I can gather the means to do so, but the vaginoplasty just doesn't seem very promising.

I think that it's just easier on my mind to convince myself that I'm happy with what I have, but I
really do go back and forth. It's a conflict that is ongoing. Because of this, I don't want to rush
into anything that I might seriously regret.

That being said, I may end up concluding that being non-op is really what I want. I'm not at a stage
where I can say GRS is what I want.

I don't know where I'm going with this rant, I need to experience more, and think more, before I
will know who I am.

Quote from: Nicky on July 29, 2010, 04:50:31 AM
I just want to note that this sort of statement is totally unacceptable on our forum, to suggest that being non-op is a failure.

Normally I would delete such hurtful comments but I really enjoyed Interalias and Teklas responses. Thanks guys.

Cheers
Nicole

Errrrrrr...  Just to clarify things a little here...

I was replying to this:

QuoteQuote from: Hillarync on July 28, 2010, 04:38:19 pm
That's exactly my logic.... re-read. evaluate. comprehend.

She asked me to re-read, evaluate, comprehend her logic.  Which I did.  My conclusion was that her logic failed, and I stand by my comment that I didn't choose to be TS, I was born this way, whereas being non-op is a choice, still ts but choosing not to have surgery.

I didn't deny her right to be, I didn't insult her or anyone else here.  Is that a little clearer now?

QuoteLR has a history in coming in here and claiming Non-Op transpeople aren't trans.  Her intent was pretty obvious.  It's a ->-bleeped-<-ty thing to see in a support forum.

Please don't talk about me as if I'm not here pheonix, and I think I explained my intent.

Quote from: tekla on July 28, 2010, 11:31:54 PM
It's about responsibility Interalia, you have all of it, she has none.

Oh dear is that the best you could come up with sweetie, feeling down it the dumps today.  Later maybe.

-={LR}=-