You know, it's funny, really.  I have experienced more discrimination, intolerance, from the gay community than the straight community.  I feel at times they feel we betray them in our changing our physical to match are mental.  My best friend, you're average white european man, with redneck tendencies, and humor, I recently told I am in fact biologically female.  He is also my employer at a drywall company, and we're both volunteer firefighters in a rural community, wyoming.  He accepted me, and appreciates me all the more.  Many gay women, who mainstream society would assume liberal, open minded, accepting(same could be said for transgender women and gay men), are unhappy with, judgemental of people like us. 

I don't get it.  Wyoming rednecks are more open minded than the liberal LA gay folk I used to room with.  What is the deal?

It's like that many places I'm afraid.
For some reason the LGB people either don't like us, don't agree with us, or are afraid of us. I don't get it but thats how it seems to be.

I remember a while back on the Tyra Show, they did an episode about the "Gay Kingdom" where they had a feminine lesbian, butch lesbian, feminine gay, masculine gay, drag queen, bisexual man, and a transgendered woman. The worst judgments came from the feminine lesbian and masculine gay, and the worst of their judgments were directed towards the bisexual.
From what I have seen, people just plain can't get along. There is an excuse for turning anyone into the bad guy. On this show, it showed excellent examples of the hostility the LGBT community has for its other members. The feminine lesbian and masculine gay were accused of "trying to act like their straight counterparts", the feminine gay was accused of being the cause of all negative stereotypes about gay men, the transgender was told that she didn't belong with them, and the bisexual was told that he was wither confused about what he wanted or that he was just a closeted gay.
Frankly, I think it's all crap. People need to find a scapegoat to blame for all of the discrimination the whole community gets.

Generally, straight people don't pick favourites because they aren't as personally involved.

There was a gay guy who said I couldn't be transgendered because I don't look male or act male.  And then I kept getting called "she" by another gay guy because I, again, don't look male.  I'm so sorry I can't transition right now or look even remotely what I want to look like (/sarcasm).  But my new friend has no issued calling me 'he' from what I can see, which makes me happy.

Straight people I've told have been more likely to be nice to me and believe me than anyone else I've met.

I can't figure it out, and it's pretty irritating to go to a group for assistance and not be believed.

It does seem to be somewhat of a phenomenon... But it is something I've noticed in the past even before deciding to transition

I've noticed that many (not all) gay guys don't like us and are even harsher about it than straight guys

Most lesbians have been rather nice to me though

It all gets so confusing... You don't want to be a separatist but you also wonder why you're roped in with other groups that don't seem to like you

This is my experience, also.  Among liberals, I find a great deal of virulent hatred and slander toward any number of groups, including transsexuals.  The most snide and catty remarks I've ever heard were by homosexual males in Seattle, and by far the most directly hateful and angry were from lesbians in the same place.  When I mentioned transsexuality among some straight liberals, once, they made it into a topic of disgusted humor.

Among the right-wing folks, such things don't come up.  It's simply not appropriate conversation; many of us may be gay and a few my be trans, but those are strictly private matters and outside of the public sphere.  We discuss the constitution, our businesses, candidates, platforms, kids, guns, trucks, chicks, and so forth, but we don't discuss other people's sex lives.

Even when one fellow made out with some guys when drunk, only his friends could tease him and it always in a friendly manner.

- N

Quote from: greginprogress on July 24, 2010, 05:59:24 PMYou know, it's funny, really.  I have experienced more discrimination, intolerance, from the gay community than the straight community....../

I don't get it.  Wyoming rednecks are more open minded than the liberal LA gay folk I used to room with.  What is the deal?

Doesn't surprise me. This was one reason why I moved away from big city.

In small town people may be intolerant, and gossiping, and know each others things, but it is different from big city intolerance. There is more human kindness. Big city ideas are often artificial..

I think it's the same old same old. Gay people understand TG people as much as 'straight' people do.
So what do you expect? Do TG people accept/reject racism? Ageism? Religious intolerance? Just because we are rejects doesn't change our opinions about rejecting others. So why do we expect Gays to accept us?

Cindy

I think a lot of it is fear. People react against what they fear they may become or indeed what they fear others may mistake them for.

For a long time, when I was in stealth the first time (in the years prior to 1988), I was not a very nice person when it came to cross-dressers, but looking back it said more about my insecurity in my own identity than it did about them. I wish I could go back and apologise to one or two people for my rather separatist attitudes.

I've always been lucky with gay and lesbian people - even being bisexual as well as trans hasn't proved a barrier to many firm and lasting friendships. I think its because these days I am naturally very relaxed I am happy to feel included in whatever group I'm with and I don't feel the need to define myself too rigidly. Heck I don't in any way regard myself as male, but if someone really wanted to see me that way, as long as they are aware of and acknowledge the physical differences that I now have, I'd let them do it, because I'd rather be friendly than hostile.

Upshot because I let people make up their own minds no one really sees me as a threat, and there are many people in our local community with whom I am great friends who I know normally wouldn't go within a million miles of something like this. I see that as an opportunity to be an ambassador. Yeah sometimes it can involve compromise, but it is worth it in the long run.

Hmmmm... Not surprising really.  Unless you are gay or lesbian we don't belong in their group/community.  From a TS standpoint, the only common denominator is that we have both been discriminated, persecuted, and harassed, that doesn't make us the same.  I was very active in the queer community here where I live for several years (The Queens University Association of Queer Employees) and while I didn't experience any hostility I didn't  experience acceptance either.  I finally realized that I didn't belong as I wasn't gay or lesbian so I bid them farewell.

As others have pointed out, they no more understand our issues than straight people do so why associate ourselves with them.  I would love to meet the dope who desided that it would be great to add the "T" to their group, I doubt that they asked the queers or those that are Transsexual.  May be it's because they are queer for life and we are only TS while we transition, then for the most part we vanish.  They have their issues and we have ours, don't waste your time.

-={LR}=-

I'm not surprised at all actually.  I read a magzine article about apartheid era South Africa, where the writer found one of the worst racists he interviewed was a white lesbian.

As Nimeton said,  for a conservative person some things are private and not something that one should pry into.

Greg your town sounds like the one in the local movie "Strange Bedfellows."  (Good for a laugh)

I've seen this in the LGBT community a lot too.  So far, I haven't experienced much personally, but I'm not really out fully yet either.  I think the worst I've seen it is when a lesbian comes out as Trans.  I've met a few F2M men in the past 6 months, and 2 or 3 have had issues where they were previously very involved in the lesbian community, and decided that they had to leave it due to the hate that they found there.  Very sad.   

Me and some friends were queuing for G.A.Y in London (now called 'Omo - which is an even better name) and the people in front of us went through this huge list of people they hated - and all the people around them agreed.

They hated:

Lesbians
Transsexuals
Transgenders
Straight People
Hairy People
Fat People
Poor People - in fact they really hated poor people.
Anyone who lives in an estates.
Northerners
Foreigners (except the occasional Aussie or Yank)
   - Especially asians, black people and white South Africans
People who live in villages.
People who live in small towns
People who live in big towns
People who live in North West or South East London
Gingers
Women in general.
People with Devon, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Glaswegian, Nottingham, Sussex, Essex etc accents (Basically, they liked posh, some Scottish and Irish)

etc...etc...etc.. I have never seen a prouder or more comprehensive display of intolerance.

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 10, 2010, 05:28:06 PM
Me and some friends were queuing for G.A.Y in London (now called 'Omo - which is an even better name) and the people in front of us went through this huge list of people they hated - and all the people around them agreed.

They hated:

Lesbians
Transsexuals
Transgenders
Straight People
Hairy People
Fat People
Poor People - in fact they really hated poor people.
Anyone who lives in an estates.
Northerners
Foreigners (except the occasional Aussie or Yank)
   - Especially asians, black people and white South Africans
People who live in villages.
People who live in small towns
People who live in big towns
People who live in North West or South East London
Gingers
Women in general.
People with Devon, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Glaswegian, Nottingham, Sussex, Essex etc accents (Basically, they liked posh, some Scottish and Irish)

etc...etc...etc.. I have never seen a prouder or more comprehensive display of intolerance.

OMGoodness... That is quite the hater list... And these were Gay guys?

Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 10, 2010, 05:34:22 PM
OMGoodness... That is quite the hater list... And these were Gay guys?

That's normal, from my experience.  I used to live in the gay ghetto of my city, and regularly heard similar expressions of disgust.  I've never actually stood witness to a comprehensive enumeration of objects, though.

- N

It was a long queue and one object of dislike led to another...it got quite enthusiastic at the end.

For some reason, I just think GLB peeps are more open about it when they do it.  There is a name for it that I forget, and studies that show people who have been villified are quick to turn on others and give them the same treatment, especially after they have recently been accepted and are no longer villified.  I t happens with fraternity classes that were pledges the year before, being the most eager to haze the newcomers.  A lot of people are blaming the mormons for prop 8, but the numbers show it was blacks and hispanics in CA that really pushed it through.  And there have been studies in children too.  There's a video out there, but I can't remember the name of it.

EDIT (part 3 is key):

Documentary -- Eye of the Storm from 1970 -- Part 1 -- Jane Elliot

Eye of the Storm -- Part 2 from 1970 (Documtary) -- Jane EllIot

Eye of the Storm Part 3 -- Jane Elliot

Quote from: glendagladwitch on August 10, 2010, 06:18:18 PM
For some reason, I just think GLB peeps are more open about it when they do it.  There is a name for it that I forget, and studies that show people who have been villified are quick to turn on others and give them the same treatment, especially after they have recently been accepted and are no longer villified.  I t happens with fraternity classes that were pledges the year before, being the most eager to haze the newcomers.  A lot of people are blaming the mormons for prop 8, but the numbers show it was blacks and hispanics in CA that really pushed it through.  And there have been studies in children too.  There's a video out there, but I can't remember the name of it.

EDIT (part 3 is key):

Documentary -- Eye of the Storm from 1970 -- Part 1 -- Jane Elliot

Eye of the Storm -- Part 2 from 1970 (Documtary) -- Jane EllIot

Eye of the Storm Part 3 -- Jane Elliot

Human mind is one weird place, isn't it?

Isn't that some form of Behavioral psychology?

 :PFirst  off, great comments !!!!!!!!! I kid ya not , I feel anything I say at this point will get censored by moderators as my experence comes from the former church I was accociated with. I would LOVE to tell ya'all what church that was too. First , I got it from gay men cause I told everyone I wasn't there to  "Date " ANYBODY PERIOD ! I was looked upon as a threat by Gay women cause I  "Dressed better than them ", I swear , I can't make this up either ! Further, I get it from several of these people at a Lesbian Bar that we all go to on account of me just wanting to re arange my genitailia . So what children, so what ? It's my body, go else where meat market fool . I have a life and so do you . I don't tel you what or how to run yer life , now reun yers , not mine , thank you and now back to regularly sceduled programming ........... ellen 

I don't understand why all this squabbling and intolerance happens in the first place. Not only is it happening from gays towards trans people but I've seen it within the trans community as well. I believe most of the intolerance actually stems from personal insecurities. In other words, someone has a problem accepting someone else because they really can't accept themselves. Within the trans community I have seen cross-dressers not understanding transsexuals and visa versa, non-ops, pre-ops, and post-ops butting heads, and MTFs trying to decide for other MTFs whether or not they are actually considered women.

Another type of discrimination that I've observed is the way transwomen are treated compared to ciswomen. Just a couple of nights ago I was in a GLBT bar and a guy I didn't even know grabbed my left breast (which was actually just a padded bra). I told him to take his hand off immediately. He gave me a somewhat arrogant look and I then grabbed his arm and forcefully removed it. I then gave him a final warning that he is not to ever touch me again. Not long after he was removed from the club by the manager and security due to some other complaint. Now these things can and do happen in any place when you have a bunch of stupid drunks crowded in a small room together. However, I don't believe this is near as common or tolerated against ciswomen as it is towards transwomen. In most cases if a man grabbed a ciswoman's breast in a straight bar, she would probably punch him in the face, a couple other guys would also probably hit him, he'd be immediately escorted out, the police would be called, and he probably would be arrested. In a GLBT venue grabbing boobs and other parts of the body without permission is much more tolerated.

This only proves one thing: that we are not as respected. I have not yet gone to a straight bar presenting female but I have trans friends who have. My guess is that if you do pass well you are not likely to get this type of treatment. If you pass poorly then the guys may give you some stares, maybe some side comments, but they otherwise will leave you alone as they aren't attracted to you. I'm discussing reasonably normal nightclubs of course here as dangerous dive bars could be an entirely different story. I think a lot of the gay male community sees us as sex objects. Otherwise, they would be treating us as women and not "chicks with d*cks." This is a sad and disturbing trend. A lot of gays and lesbians also have a problem accepting bisexuals. It is all just nonsense.