I don't wish to turn this into a laser vs electro thread but but regardless of the methods pursued one needs to research.  Personally I had to opt for electro.  Had three consults with laser clinics and all echoed that my skin was too fair and the light colour of the hair would not lead to successful treatment.

I then visited several places that did electro got them to give me a sample treatment before I settled on the tech.  One of the points that swayed my decision was the fact that she recorded the power levels she used on each area of my face and neck, something the others didn't do.  She charges $50 and hour but I get a discount for a package.

Steph

Just remember.

Laser is perm hair reduction. It usually won't kill everything but it can leave only a few trees standing when all is said and done. If you had allot of grow back it was either due to older laser types, or a very bad tech. It's not 100% but still should be perm on the vast majority of whats been zapped. IF you went for 6 or more treatments.

Electro is perm removal of individual hairs. It can take a very long time and bad techs leave you with horrible scaring if they don't know there stuff. ANY hair zapped properly should be gone for good the first time.

To save time and money. Do both. Kill what you can with laser then finish off what ever still lives with electro.

PS: I found laser worked wonders on my skin and tone on top of killing hairs.

Quote from: LynnER on August 11, 2010, 11:14:40 PM
Just remember.

Laser is perm hair reduction. It usually won't kill everything but it can leave only a few trees standing when all is said and done. If you had allot of grow back it was either due to older laser types, or a very bad tech. It's not 100% but still should be perm on the vast majority of whats been zapped. IF you went for 6 or more treatments.

Electro is perm removal of individual hairs. It can take a very long time and bad techs leave you with horrible scaring if they don't know there stuff. ANY hair zapped properly should be gone for good the first time.
To save time and money. Do both. Kill what you can with laser then finish off what ever still lives with electro.

PS: I found laser worked wonders on my skin and tone on top of killing hairs.

I agree with everything you said EXCEPT the part I highlighted and struck out.  Do you have any supporting documentation for that part?  I may be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but as I understand the science of electro, the hair follicle cycles through 3 or 4 growth phases.  It is only during one of those phases that the follicle can be permanently destroyed.  It doesn't matter whether it's electro or laser.  If the follicle isn't in that vulnerable phase, it will definitely grow back.  IIRC, the phases change about every 6 weeks.  It's important to note that each individual hair's growth cycle is independent of the growth cycles of the others.  Mathematically, it's reasonable to assume, at any instance in time, 1/4 th of every hair on our body is in the first phase, another quarter in the second and so on.

This is why laser requires between 4 and 6 recommended treatments.  Two points to consider. One, nearly the entire treatment area is being treated.  Any tech I've seen operate avoid overlapping zaps to reduce the risk of skin damage and permit the highest possible setting for increased success.  In other words, if laser worked the first time, every time, (which it definitely doesn't), growing out your facial hair would leave you with bare skin polk-a-dots.  And two, that whole vulnerable growth phase thing I mentioned in the previous paragraph. 

During your first laser treatment, it's reasonable to expect that 1/4 of those hairs in those "polk-a-dots" the tech hits, will theoretically never grow back.  Sessions are spaced 4 to 6 weeks apart to ensure that all the hairs have moved on to their next phase, increasing the chance that the phase they moved into is the "vulnerable" phase.   It's important, for best results, to commit to the sessions as a package and go EVERY  5 weeks or so to ensure the best results achievable, given your personal physiology, the type and quality of equipment being used, and the ability of the tech.

Anyway, that's how I understand it.  I don't want to confuse the issue.  I think it's important that the correct information is disseminated.  If you know of some evidence contrary to what I wrote, can you please provide me a link?  I'd like to delete this post, if that's the case.

If you clean shave daily, and you let the hair row out a day or two for electro, all the hairs zapped in theory should be in there growth stage for electro anyways.

Quote from: LynnER on August 12, 2010, 06:39:55 AM
If you clean shave daily, and you let the hair row out a day or two for electro, all the hairs zapped in theory should be in there growth stage for electro anyways.

I don't think shaving changes the phase cycle of the follicle.  Hair is nothing but dead cells.  The follicle isn't influenced in any way by the length of those dead cells.  The follicle is either adding new dead cells to the hair (anagen phase), resting (catagen phase) or falling out (telogen phase).   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_follicle

Electro is a needle delivering energy to the follicle to destroy it.  light energy is absorbed by dark colors and reflected by light colors.  That's why white is a more comfortable color to wear on a sunny summer day.  Dark hairs absorb laser light like lightening rods and deliver the energy to the follicle, again destroying it.

If the hair is growing out, then it is in an active growth stage and can be killed. Any dormant hairs will not grow past the skin if it is inactive. Therefore if you shave, then let it grow for a day or two, chances are, any hair showing will be killable.

Oohhh... I see what you're saying.  Yeah...  in theory, nearly all the visible hairs would still be in their growth stage at the time of treatment.  I misunderstood what you were saying.  Sorry

The way my laser hair removal gal explained it to me was to shave 12-24 hours before treatment, my first treatment would be a one time pass over to get a good portrayal of how my body and skin reacts. If I have positive results skin wise but poor results hair removal wise they will gladly up the setting from there.

Also, mine was a bit pricier, but comes with a lifetime guarantee as long as I make my first 9 appointments. It's with Ideal Image. I find their entire staff to be WONDERFUL! I am now on week three and am noticing SERIOUS facial hair loss. It is somewhat patchy in some places, but they said this would happen and to just let week 3 pass and by week 4 I should be completely smooth. Around week 7-8 I'd get some regrowth that they'll zap back off when I come back in at week 10 for my next treatment, and this cycle will continue for about 18 months til every follicle is killed that can grow hair. They can't however, guarantee to treat the white hairs, or red hairs with the lasers.

I have noticed in my case tho that the patchy areas seem to be where I had a white or red hair and now it's completely gone. May be just me though, I'm only now on week three, but will post some nice before and after pics at the end of this week so everyone can have an idea of what we're looking at with laser hair removal through them.

Gabby

ps my package cost 4.7k, very pricey but considering the lifetime guarantee, I accepted it, I easily could of gone with someone MUCH cheaper but they didn't look as nice and couldn't match anything ideal image gave me!

Okay, this is a topic that has been driving me crazy. As most, I am trying to schedule my transition around finishing my degree in college (about 1 year give or take), working part time in a friendly Trans environment (I am doing it through a LBGT center in town), and the baby that is on it's way. Whew.
So, I am trying to make sure that everything I do is timed well. Meaning, I start my HRT in a few weeks (saving up for sperm bank fees since we want another child), and I thought college would be a great environment to start the change.
From what I gather, since I am light-to-medium olive complected, and have black to drk brown facial hair, I should be okay with laser treatments first and then maybe go into Electro to get any stray white hairs, or reddish hairs (not many but a few around the chin) and any other hairs that didn't do it. So effectively, it will allow for a better "presentation" during my transition and HRT.
As far as chest hair and overall body hair, I understand that HRT will indeed help in those areas and I may not need to do Laser/ Electro in those areas and if so maybe only a few sessions.
So did I get it right?

yes.

So am I understanding that if you get laser done and your skin is fine, but the hair is not really affected, they need to turn up the settings?  Sounds reasonable, but how much skin damage is expected and acceptable?

Laser has worked great for me so far. but i'm one of the lucky few to have pale skin and dark dark hair. from my understanding it makes me an outstanding subject.


Arigato-
Jessi

Laser was a god send for me
i have olive skin and dark thick hair and after 1-monthly visits form September to June
there is NOTHING on my face.
every now and then that i should see a baby hair, i would just go in and get it zapped and tat was that

it's amazing.
A lot of it depends on your electrologist/laser technician.
fortunately mine is a woman who LIVES to destroy hair

I can say that I'm about a month since getting laser and the hair on the sides of my face are gone, under the jawline and the chin as well as the upper lip still have pretty dense hair but it grows REALLY slow now, I'm not sure if it's "dying" or what. Before I had laser I would have to shave twice a day, now I shave once every 2-3 days, but even shaved I still have a slight shadow around the lower portion of my face.

With that being said, I plan to have the tech kick up the laser a fair amount the next time I go in.

As far as amount of burning that's acceptable, I'd say none. A good tech/company would take their time to make sure they met your demands while still maintaining an eye on the future. Trust me, I want this hair GONE, like 15 years ago gone! But I'd rather spend an extra visit or two to get it gone and still be able to not wear make-up from time to time without worrying about blotches on my skin because of my impatience!

Seems that Olive toned skin w/dark hair = laser. If there's an ideal image in your area and you have some $$ you should stop by. Oh, and they do payments! Even if you don't have the best credit they will do in house financing, you just pay 800 upfront then 266 per month for a full face!

You get a treatment every 10 weeks, AND, most importantly, their service comes with a LIFETIME guarantee. If the hair EVER comes back, they'll treat it again and it costs you nothing. That's well worth an extra grand imo!

Gabby

The first seven sessions for my beard where with Elos technology, a combination of ipl and flashlight. The results have been good so far. Due to a move, I recently had an eight session using a 810nm diode laser, and am really curious if that will work out fine.
Prices were 750 Euros for 6 sessions for my complete face, and after that around a 107 Euros more per extra session.
Now I've got a package for beard and (upper and lower) legs for 1216GBP (was originally 1880GBP, but I got a nice discount)

I have found Hair Facts to be pretty reliable and unbiased.  Take from it what you will.

From personal observation and completely unscientific, the people I know who had laser first seemed to need less electro.  I also noticed very little skin damage from electro, possibly because the need for less current because the hairs were finer. 

I decided against laser because everything I heard said it was only temporary and I saw it as a waste of money.  I went to the same electrologist several of my friends went to and they loved her.  I saw little or no skin damage on their faces.  Unfortunately that was not the case for me.  My upper lip was the worst part of my face both in density and coarseness.  I have electro damage in that area.  That has been confirmed by my FFS surgeon.  (I wondered if it might have been aging.)

From that I walked away with the impression that had I had laser, at least on the upper lip, maybe the damage wouldn't have been so noticeable, if at all.  I don't know.  I can't do control tests because there's only one of me.  Maybe I'm just more prone to skin damage.

My two cents...  As I said, very unscientific.

I use American Laser Centers. I also did their 6 sessions + 2 years deal and I've had 10 sessions on my face and only feel the need to shave every 2 or 3 days now. It's not really noticable visibly. Note: I do have light skin and dark hair though.

Also I didn't care for American Laser Center's way of doing things. They just seem so seedy and like they just want their $$. But they have worked out so far for me well.

I had bad experiences just trying to talk to American Laser Center.  They didn't strike me as very professional at all, but maybe it was just the people I was dealing with.  I had much better luck with a local business that a friend told me about.

Laser hair removal is very much a your-mileage-may-vary thing.  I've had incredibly good results, but I'm very pale with black hair.  Lighter hair, as noted above, will make things harder.  So will darker skin.  But it's not just hair/skin that can affect it.  There are individual biological traits that also play a role.  There is absolutely no guarantee that all of the hairs removed will be permanently gone.  For the majority of people, it is.  But if it grows back, it wasn't necessarily due to an old laser or incompetent technician.  There's simply no way to tell for sure how your body will react.