Hi! new girl here - so new, I don't have a fem name yet lol! (3 weeks realization)
BUT! I am coming out to friends soon and I have a statement-type question for you ladies
Like, I have friends and know people who have come out gay and lesbian, and I have seen how their peers and family support them and all that, but, as someone who is going to come out as transgender...I have never seen or heard someone do that before (except for the millions of times I've played the scenario in my head)
How was it for yous to come out TG? Like, if I came out gay, I would still look like me and all that...once the announcement has been made, there would be no further changes from me and we keep moving on and all that
But as a TG, when I would start transition, I kinda fear that everystep I make towards my womanhood would be a reset button for my peers and stuff in like, their shock or level of uncomfort I guess?  ..like BOOM! I want to be a physical girl! then BOOM! I'm dressing up! BOOM I have breasts! etc..... or is it more of an applause every monumental big step/change? ...hmmm I guess it depends eh?I don't think my friends, co-workers or family will hate the idea or anything (except a few as per usual probably) I think most of them thought I was gay anyways. Close but not quite! hahaha
Rest assured that nothing anyone says will make me stop this girl-train from arriving at the station,.....I guess I'm just trying to steel my nerves a bit more
anyhoo, that's that
Thanks!

If you come out as gay you are lieing and you will eventually have to come out as trans anyways......
There is no way to truely know how your friends, peers and family are going to handle your coming out until you come out. It isn't easy, even when we have an open minded family and open minded friends. Personaly I got lucky, I have only lost one friend over my transition and he had the decency to just drift away.
If you intend on going the transition route you MUST be prepared to loose everything. If you are not willing to do so then do not transition.
Chances are some will suport you and others will leave you behind and disown you.

Good luck and best of wishes.

If I had come out as gay, it would have been worst in my case.  My ex would have went more ballistic than she did.  HIV, AIDS and all that BS.   Besides I would come out as lesbian, rather than gay.  And I am Bi anyway.

Anyway you come out can result in the lose of friends and family.

I assume you mean only to compare the two 'coming out' experiences, rather than suggest you're considering 'the lesser of two evils', whichever that may be.

The first person I came out to was a long-term friend, and though I didn't come out to him just because he was gay, I still hoped his experiences may have been similar. Anything approaching my dilemma of coming out as trans was going to help reassure me at that point.

It turns out that a lot of it is similar. We've spoken about how pronouns have to be changed, there's a shift in appearance, parental expectations and so on.. only for him, it's his partner who embodies the change, not him personally. The problem is as you say - it may be that gay and bisexual people have hurdles to hop in coming out and then introducing a same-sex partner, but we do have our appearances, frightening medical treatments, legal wrangles and all that to deal with too. Similar, but more complex by some magnitude.

Thanks, this does help a lot
when I do cone out soon, it will be as a TV, not gay, ...just trying to gauge what I have seen/know and how that is similar to the unknown fir me- well, won't be unknown for much longer
but what you all Say makes sence and puts me at ease
I guess...well, coming out is coming out,from what you say, no matter what...makes sence
thanks!

Quote from: Sinnyo on August 12, 2010, 04:30:49 PM
I assume you mean only to compare the two 'coming out' experiences, rather than suggest you're considering 'the lesser of two evils', whichever that may be.

The first person I came out to was a long-term friend, and though I didn't come out to him just because he was gay, I still hoped his experiences may have been similar. Anything approaching my dilemma of coming out as trans was going to help reassure me at that point.

Hehe I remember that day! We both coincidentally ran into each other for the first time in years just before to began your coming out voyage  I'd been on hormones for months by that stage and had come out earlier.

I don't really believe in fate but that was a huge coincidence. It's odd we didn't know how alike our situations were XD

My family suspected I was gay... I never sought out girlfriends, Or really spoke about what attributes I'm sexually attracted too. It was when I suddenly began changing infront of them that many people who already kinda knew Something was up with me then REALLY knew and my mother who'd had clues finally stopped denying it.
She asked me about the scars on my body, I said I was "distanced" and negative about my body. She then asked "Is that because it's a mans' body?" To which I admitted. "yes"
These people on there own approached me and asked if I was a Transsexual. Or unhappy as a guy. I admitted it. When it was acquaintances who began doing this I finally announced it to my friends. And they all said.
"I know and I've known for years... But I didn't think you wanted me to know."

They still wanna know who i'm attracted to tho None of there business!

I came out both as bi and as trans. (First as bi, and later as trans, 1-18 years later depending on the person). In my life, I have experienced much more rejection and biphobia when I outed  myself as bi (or was outed) than rejection or transphobia for outing myself as trans. There's a couple of reasons for that:

1. My friends were already preselected as I had avoided anyone who was bi-, homo- or transphobic for decades. I got no problems from my friends.

2. I was not out as trans at work, but changed from a female mode work to a male mode freelancer job and none of my clients know I was not born male. Therefore, no trans coming-out trouble at work.

3. When you come out as bi, people tend to ask you many more stupid or extremely intimate questions than when you come out as trans, plus some of the questions can be very insulting. Being asked what you have in your pants and what you are planning to get there is absolutely harmless compared to the typical clueless bi questions (So you need threesomes? so you can't be monogameous? What are your sex practices when with males opposed to with females? When will you make your choice? But bisexuality does not exist? You must be very confused, don't you? So you're always in love with two people at the same time, one being female and the other male? etc.) And honestly, bisexuality is so common they should know a bit better. (Trans is so rare that I don't expect people to know much about it.)



4. At least here, when you come out as trans, people will rather talk behind your back than tell you directly what they think, opposed to a bi coming out. I don't know if it's better, but at least it spares you many stupid questions.

5. Often, people just don't believe you that you're bi when you tell them (which is very annoying). Whereas, after two years on testosterone and without a name change, you can prove them that you are trans if you really want to.

6. I had already gathered a lot of experience from my bi coming outs, which helps me figure out whom I can out myself as trans and where I better keep it to myself.

7. I guess bi is less accepted by society than gay. From the straights, you get both homophobia and biphobia added together. From the gays, you get biphobia or they just think you're a closet gay. Or, version nr. 2: it's just invisible, people will assume you're either gay or straight or they won't believe you if you tell them, which is a different kind of "not accepted". So the difference between coming out as bi and as trans is not as big as it sounds when it comes to acceptance by society.

I have been openly bisexual for over 20 years.
It IS dificult. All my experiance was is as a male (or at least pretend male).
male lovers fear that you will find the perfect woman and you will leave them. Women fear you have AIDS because all gay men have it right?
Both gay and hetero lovers fear you will cheat on them and it is almost impossible to get them to dismiss the idea.
we are considered promiscuious, yet because we cant find gay or strait lovers when we are out of the closet .....yeah right

Being openly bisexual is hell in gay circles. The animosity and outright hatred is palable with many of our gay 'family'.
Straits are no differant when they find out.

Or there are those who discount our experiance as a bisexual. There is no bisexual, only confussed gay people.

BLAHHHH I say!

Quote from: cynthialee on August 12, 2010, 07:09:38 PM
I have been openly bisexual for over 20 years.
It IS dificult. All my experiance was is as a male (or at least pretend male).
male lovers fear that you will find the perfect woman and you will leave them. Women fear you have AIDS because all gay men have it right?
Both gay and hetero lovers fear you will cheat on them and it is almost impossible to get them to dismiss the idea.
we are considered promiscuious, yet because we cant find gay or strait lovers when we are out of the closet .....yeah right

Being openly bisexual is hell in gay circles. The animosity and outright hatred is palable with many of our gay 'family'.
Straits are no differant when they find out.

Or there are those who discount our experiance as a bisexual. There is no bisexual, only confussed gay people.

BLAHHHH I say!

Agree 100%

I can tell you from the female side, it's very much the same, I had the same trouble with straight and gay partners afraid of me leaving, and the lesbian scene treating me like sh*t. Bi partners were cool with me being bi, though, and the tiny SM lesbian scene here as well (but they are rejected by the common lesbian scene so maybe that's the reason?). Oh, and currently I am looking for hook-ups and maybe a partner in the future and guess what? I look for them on a gay dating platform and concentrate on the bi guys. And well you never know who your next partner might be, but I wish it will be a bi as there's less trouble with unnecessary jealousy.

The biphobia shows differently, however, when it comes to straight males you meet. They don't reject bi females as they tend to reject bi guys. Instead, they tend to ask you if you would mind having a threesome with them and another woman and hope that you'll be a fabulous sex partner, and they lose all respect and start asking you very intimate sexual questions even if you're just acquaintances. Objectification at its best.

About promiscuity, I'm really a slut when I am single, but have never cheated on anyone in my life. When I'm a single, I want to have fun, plus people think I'm promiscuous anyway so there's no reputation to be lost.

My biphobia experience was one of the reasons why I did not worry THAT much about transitioning. It's more extreme for society than being bi, but I could still kind of figure out if I would be able to handle it.

I outed myself as a gay guy many years ago and was astounded when not one of my friends even batted an eyelid - some of them were a little homophobic.. Even my mum took it in stride.. Fast-forward to a few months ago, when I outed myself as girl.. Mum is accepting, doesn't entirely understand, but accepting and willing to learn.. I've told 3 other friends, all girls ( ) and they have all been great about it.. I'm holding off on telling too many more friends at this stage, I'll wait until there is some more obvious changes..

I'm going in to this journey with my eyes wide open, I know that I could end up alone.. But so far so good!

Wow, very eye opening
pebbles, I can dig it...haven't had a girlfriend much either, always single, my family probably figured I'm gay etc so I can really identify with that...but I think my family would be the same way.. That's very reassuring, but I guess I'll never know till I tell em
the whole bi vs tg outing...I never knew bi had it so bad, in both communities, but us tg's seem to have it ok
oh, fencesitter, as a Trekkie, I appreciate any Captain Picard reference, and that photo/caption works so perfectly with you bi-outing story thanks fir that
this makes me feel a lot better about the coming out part: I appreciate the stories and can't wait to tell you mine!
Thanks again!

Fencesitter;
I was a slut for many years but I got HIV due to my promiscuity so I have had a complete change of lifestyle. If you want to keep sluting around you need to play safe! Play safe, comdoms and dental dams for every sexual encounter.

Just want to say I've had the same experience when being openly bi. The exact same silly questions about whether you need a boyfriend and a girlfriend simultaneously and such. So many people I know don't believe bi exists, they think you are in denial about being gay/straight or it's just phase etc etc. The lesbian community has been very hostile towards me in terms of being bi, like not hating men is betraying them or something. I also got hostility when coming out as trans from the lesbian community for the same reason.

Straight men when seeing me as female assumed it meant I wanted threesomes with hot chicks.

In the gay community as male bi is seen as not a "real" gay by some, although I've found gay men to be much more accepting, especially with the trans thing.

I found people to be a hell of a lot more accepting and less "yeah whatever that isn't real" towards being trans than being bi. Coming out as trans was incredibly easy and non eventful for me for the most part.

Quote from: cynthialee on August 12, 2010, 09:32:47 PM
Fencesitter;
I was a slut for many years but I got HIV due to my promiscuity so I have had a complete change of lifestyle. If you want to keep sluting around you need to play safe! Play safe, comdoms and dental dams for every sexual encounter.

I am very sorry to hear that, and I hope you are fine in spite of the infection (apart from your cardiac problems which are a different thing). I do play safe and always did... well did almost always to be honest. Condoms are a must, gloves as well depending on what we do, dental dams I don't use but I don't lick women when we haven't been dating for long enough that you get clear HIV results.

@Jeatyn
Nice to hear that others have the same experience with a bi coming out so I'm not alone, but sad that you had the same trouble with it.  I have no experience how it is to come out as trans in the lesbian scene as I have avoided that scene like hell after a couple of tries, but gays being okay with trans guys has also been my experience from what I saw (more than with bi guys). No wonder so many bi people are closeted and say they're straight or gay, but that does not work for me, at least in my private life.

Another thing that comes to my mind. Gay or trans coming outs leading to less intense, intimate and unbelieving questioning of you than bi seems to me like people think you don't need or deserve to be treated with the same respect and get your privacy as well respected when you're a bi person. And at least nobody expects you to "make your mind up" unless you're genderqueer instead of trans. (If you ever wondered about my nick, it's an ironic allusion.) This has been very eye-opening for me just to see where this puts bi in the social scale. But I can only refer to FTM trans experience and not the  other way round, which seems to be less easy.

Sorry for the ranting, and I must add there's quite a lot of decent people as well. Plus the SM lesbians I knew were very cool about FTM and MTF trans people and got the pronoun things etc. right even for FTM without or pre any physical transition, which was one of the main reasons I hung around with them though I did not claim the pronoun things etc. to be used for me but I saw it with other trans people. That was awesome.

Another weird aspect is that people just assume that you don't get any problems from society as being bi and often don't believe you when you tell them that biphobia exists or think that you are exagerating a lot, other than when you tell about homophobia or transphobia. Though the first saying here that pops up in people's minds here, both straight and gay, is "Nie mit bi", meaning "don't ever date a bi person" and it's the only famous saying about bi. Here's a comprehensive list of the typical biphobic prejudices, and I have often been confronted to almost each of them but two or three, even by parents and sometimes close friends: http://allies.tamu.edu/resources/biphobia.htm

 Hi,

I think it is very difficult to decide where we go. TG people are lumped into the the Gay & lesbian groups and from their  perspective I have nothing in common with them, except our removal from main stream society.


I'm not gay, I like guys and fantasize about them., lots of  female gendered persons do. I'm not bi, I kiss my girlfriends but it is just that, a  welcoming peck, I have totally no sexual desire for my girl friends and they have none for me.. Which I really like. I and some natal females have stripped to show the clothes we bought, from lingerie to a full dressing.  Guess what,  it's all about  showing the clothes and hen pecking in a very subtle way.

Cindy