I've started hanging out with a relatively new lesbian friend. (There's no attraction between us, we're just friends) Before I met her, I had only once ventured into a GLBT club but  last week we went to ladies' night at a local one and I had a great time. I found myself wondering how Transsexuals are generally accepted by the Lesbian community.  I'm Bi and Trans....  I really felt comfortable in that environment and I'm interested in exploring it more but I wanted to get some background info before I dove in head first.

  I know that there are lots of Lesbian Transsexuals... For those who are: Do you feel that you fit into the Lesbian scene along with the cisgendered girls? Is it uncommon to find Lesbians that are open to dating a MTF? Have you found hostility? Curiosity? Support?

There are so many variables here first would be Ftm VS Mtf second would be the trans person's sexual orientation and third would be if the trans person has had any previous involvement within the lesbian community.

So from the experience of my fiancé's and my own experience this is what I can derive to answer your question I will also see if Seth will come over and answer this.

First I am Bi and I mainly lean towards women to be honest so I found myself involved within the lesbian community from what I have read the assimilation for trans-women into this community is usually not allowed or if it is it is a rough journey. I apparently pass so well that I am attractive ( not that I feel that way all the time this is just what people tell me) and being so apparently makes it easier to assimilate. Now my fiancé actually was a lesbian before he transitioned and from what he has disclosed to me he is pretty much ostracized now because he has given up his femininity ironically  its the opposite for me ( another reason people make me go huh) he actually used to bar back at the only lesbian bar in town so he is obviously well known and used to be well liked by the community. As far as my previous involvement in the community I was pretty much hands off and only really got involved with fundraising community support at the local outreach center and every so often would go to the bars with friends mainly lesbian's. I really am not sure if the fact I was laissez-faire with the lesbian community also helped me be accepted is almost impossible to judge simply because I do not have the empirical data to analyze.

Sorry if that is allot of info I decided to keep it short I promise I did.

Bianca

Well as with all things, some Lesbians are open to dating a mtf or ftm, some arn't. Really depends on the chemistry. The times I've gone to a glbt Event, dance, etc, I very welcomed in the lesbian circles.   

Beni

I think some of it may boil down to the community aspect. I haven't had any remarkable problems associating with lesbians, but I suspect that's due in part to some lesbians simply knowing me as a person and a fellow activist.

So when I came out as trans, there was sort of an "Ohhhh, that's it!" thing happening.

But long before I came out as trans, I don't know how many times a lesbian would say something like, "Y'know, I'm not into guys, but if I was, I'd be into you."

Still, my most promising dating pool seems to be bisexual women.

I get along fine in various local lesbian circles, mostly because I'm a lesbian. But I'm not a Lesbian -- I'm not even Greek!  

most lesbians are fine with MtF TS - only lesbians like dwb are not but thankfully there aren't so many dwb's about.

For anyone in the 18-50 range I've been welcomed with open arms.  I've had a few issues with some women older than that, but it's always been clear they've got personal baggage beyond me being trans which has played into it.  To be fair I did have a head start in the community since most of my friend circle was lesbian and the vast majority of women I've dated have been lesbian.  I also has helped that I am attractive by cis-standards because it lets people get to know me long before they learn of my history.

The transpeople I've seen fail miserably at integrating to the lesbian community are often because they fail to recognize and adhere to the social norms of lesbians.   One of my friends wanted to come to a lesbian bar with me.  I agreed to bring her and gave her two points of instruction regarding attire: don't wear a skirt and don't bring a purse.  At first she got offended that I was telling her what to do, but when she got to the bar, she understood.  At that bar walking in with those makes you a pariah (regardless of trans or cis).

Greer's the Female Eunuch... took a pretty dim view re M-t-F's...

And espoused 'us' as some form of aberration and proof of men's (male doctors) manufacture of women's sexuality...so I think still that (some) radical lesbian fems see this as an academic endorsement as such...

In my period of crossover back during those heady 80's (just pre HIV terror).....I ventured only once into an uber-male city gay bar....(hated it)....though had one single chap compliment me on what I was doing...but generally this was not a place for a woman to be... they're into M-E-N after all.....

In fact, I had two gay male friends (through bus/industry) that showed me absolutely no support at all.... I think if truth be told many gay men are horrified by the thought of tampering with anything to do with that hallowed, worshipped and adored vein ridden thing that is a symbol of vigorous upright masculinity...

And my one and only experience of a pussy-kat lesbian city Mayfair bar was I got touched-up/molested on my way to the toilets..... (I didn't like this either.)... as it was done while I was on the move..... And in the dim light many of the ultra-butch women, looked/behaved just like men it seemed to me, with none of the underlying benefits as such....

*s->-bleeped-<-s*

Though I did dabble with the idea of lipstick-lesbianism.....but in reality when I tried this, finally many years post SRS - it no longer worked for me....

(Though emotional relationship wise I value my GG girlfriends hugely)

Whatever lights yer candle as they so rightly say!

The lesbians who like us really like us alot, but the ones who hate us have a redhot hatred of us that scares the ->-bleeped-<- out of me.

I have not had any problems but I have never been deeply involved with the lesbian community. I have always had some really good lesbian friends though,  even before transition. After I realized I was a woman it finally made sense why I was so attracted to lesbian woman. I always felt I fitted in with them. Often I was seen as a kind of mascot pre transition like "oh he is ok, he is transgendered" kind of thing, the token guy on a girls night out.  My friends use to tease me about it.

I've had no bad experiences with lesbians. I am currently dating one.

I suspect it might make a huge difference how well you pass too.

Reality is there are absolutely no hard and fast rules at all.

It will depend partly on you and partly on the lesbian in question. Heck even some trans people don't accept other trans people as valid. I'm sure there may even be some on here who might secretly want to question me!   

At the same time Alison and I have always been made very welcome at Lesbian clubs and venues, even a few which were theoretically known for their dislike of trans women, but then we were both ultra long term postop, looked "right", and were very obviously a couple, so not seen as in any way predatory, and (therefore?) welcomed with open arms. Oh and Alison not only wore a skirt and had a bag with her - but she was wearing an ultra mini skirt too, which alongside my jeans tee shirt and leather jacket just made us a normal pair, and got her much appreciation.

I have even enjoyed a very cordial evening with Germain Greer herself, who despite her reported public pronouncements I found to be very warm and friendly. I must confess though that the Female Eunuch was genuinely one of my formative pieces of adolescent reading which may have helped my cause.

So go figure.  Like I say it depends on many imponderables...

I honestly think that it is impossible and maybe even foolish to generalise about this. All I can say is Good Luck and have fun.

Yes, it really depends but oce you are seen as a woman and have a vagina. Nothing else really matters.

Quote from: Nicky on August 19, 2010, 07:22:01 AM
I have not had any problems but I have never been deeply involved with the lesbian community. I have always had some really good lesbian friends though,  even before transition. After I realized I was a woman it finally made sense why I was so attracted to lesbian woman. I always felt I fitted in with them. Often I was seen as a kind of mascot pre transition like "oh he is ok, he is transgendered" kind of thing, the token guy on a girls night out.  My friends use to tease me about it.

I've had no bad experiences with lesbians. I am currently dating one.

I suspect it might make a huge difference how well you pass too.

Funny I feel the same way. Although my wife didn't consider herself to be a lesbian (and let me tell you she is a hottie) now she is starting to see herself as one. She's really good with it. My friends constantly were calling me a lesbian trapped in a mans body for years too! Maybe they saw something that I didn't.
I work in film production and there are more than a few lesbians on the sets that I have connected with socially. I feel at home with them except when they are (and how the hell do I say this diplomatically...) all being visited by their monthly situation (okay, I probably STILL insulted someone). Other than that I too feel like I'm more of a softer Shayne (from the "L" Word). Plus, I'm also in a band and that seems to add to the whole thing too.

Quote from: stealth2010 on August 21, 2010, 06:12:50 PM
Yes, it really depends but oce you are seen as a woman and have a vagina. Nothing else really matters.

Disclaimer: The following is from my experience and I don't claim to speak for anyone else.

Thats the sad part right there. The vagina part, in my experience anyway, is what really matters when it comes to dating. The cis lesbians I know have accepted me with open arms, but when the prospect of dating comes a long and they find out what is between my legs the majority of them seem to freak out and don't want that. Again, this is purely my experience, but it has happened more times that I can count. There does seem to be test when it comes to dating though and that is what is between your legs. The same could no doubt be said for our trans brothers. I have had lesbian friends tell me that they would date a transmen, but not transwomen because transmen are "socialized" to be women and also because they have a vagina.

There is this weird contradiction in the cis lesbian community were they will say they accept us as women, but at the same time they don't want date us simply because of what is between our legs.
   

Quote from: themadwomyn on November 29, 2010, 04:21:54 PMThe cis lesbians I know have accepted me with open arms, but when the prospect of dating comes a long and they find out what is between my legs the majority of them seem to freak out and don't want that.

I can't really blame them. I'm not really interested in dating anyone who has a penis, either. But there are some lesbians (not to mention many, many bi or pansexual women) who aren't hung up about that. De gustibus non disputandum est.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 29, 2010, 04:46:10 PM
I can't really blame them. I'm not really interested in dating anyone who has a penis, either. But there are some lesbians (not to mention many, many bi or pansexual women) who aren't hung up about that. De gustibus non disputandum est.

I'm not saying they don't have the right to say no, because of course they do. However, I find it a tad hypocritical for them to say "I see you as a woman" and then basically define me based on that one soul physical characteristic when it comes to dating.

Personally, I feel I could date a transwoman whether she was pre-op, non-op, or post-op simply because they are women. I couldn't date a transmen because they are men and I am not attracted to men.

Quote from: themadwomyn on November 29, 2010, 06:57:06 PM
I'm not saying they don't have the right to say no, because of course they do. However, I find it a tad hypocritical for them to say "I see you as a woman" and then basically define me based on that one soul physical characteristic when it comes to dating.

Personally, I feel I could date a transwoman whether she was pre-op, non-op, or post-op simply because they are women. I couldn't date a transmen because they are men and I am not attracted to men.

From my experience, attraction is never clear cut.

I've just started getting out there (as far as dating again) and this is kinda upsetting.

The problem is I don't know any lesbians, so I signed up for on the the internet dating websites.

I dones't sound like I'm going to have any sort of luck until after my operation which is still over a year away.

I didn't have my hopes up to start with, but like everything else so far i was going to give it a damn good try. This attitude has gotten me this far...

Going to go cry now 

Jenny,

There are plenty of rainbow trout in the pond. The fact that being pre-op is an issue for some doesn't mean it's an issue for all. It doesn't matter for some lesbians, and like I said, there are plenty of bi or pansexual women who will love you for the person you are, but aren't hung up on particular body types. I've met a number of them myself.

So give it a shot. I think joining a dating site is a great idea. A lot of queer people use them for the same reason as you: it's hard to find people to date. If you are living life well, making positive changes, gaining confidence, becoming a happier and more out-going person, then people will be drawn to you. It sounds as though you have a good attitude, and I'm sure it will continue to serve you well.

Good luck!

Hi,

Why is wearing a skirt and bringing a purse not appropriate, when going to a lesbian bar?