As some of you know I have been taking oestrogen on and off for about two months.   I have noticed a number of things.  First, despite taking what many would consider to be a normal and probably even a cautious dose my weight ballooned up.   Second, when I cut back to a very small dose I noticed that I didn't experience massive weight gain.  This got me thinking about synthetic hormones and naturally produced hormones.  Before I begin, lets define our terms.  I classify anything that comes into contact with a lab even if it is naturally produced(Premarin) as being synthetic.   Naturally produced hormones are hormones produced naturally in genetic females around the age of puberty and until the menopause.
I reduced my dosage to a very small amount for two reasons (1) To prevent massive weight gain (2) I had read that if you want to greatly reduce the chances of developing the dreaded 'conical breasts' *you should start off on a low dosage and maintain this for quite a while.  The thinking behind this is that as it takes genetic females 6 years to fully develop breasts and they of course are subject to much higher daily dosages of oestrogen.  Then mtf's should take a long term view and not rush matters.   However, my sister who is only a couple of years younger than me never experienced the great weight gain that is common to mtfs.   The women in my family tend to be well-developed in the bust area, yet despite having in comparison to me huge amounts of oestrogen in her system my sister is and always has been slim.  Obviously very high amounts of naturally produced oestrogen doesn't lead to anywhere near a 30-50lb weight gain.   I have been tactfully looking at young women and the great majority aren't fat from exposure to oestrogen.  This has lead me to conclude that there is either something crucially different to synthetic oestrogen and/or oestrogen simply doesn't belong in a physically male body and when it is introduced to said body the effects are noticeably different from the effects that they would produce in a female body.   Hrt is of course manufactured to aid menopausal women cope with distressing symptoms at the end of their reproductive years.


* I know that some of us swear by progesterone, claiming that it helps to make the breasts fuller.  I believe that progesterone plays no part in breast development and many doctors agree with this.   Progesterone is present in genetic women because it helps keep the vagina moist etc.

:/

It is my understanding that the weight gain has more to do with the metabolic effects of testosterone.  Do you have any studies to back up what you are saying?

I write from personal experience and observation.   Despite eating normally I gained almost 1lb per day, each and everyday, for 30 days.

Quote from: Stephanie on August 19, 2010, 06:40:06 PM
As some of you know I have been taking oestrogen on and off for about two months.   I have noticed a number of things.  First, despite taking what many would consider to be a normal and probably even a cautious dose my weight ballooned up.   Second, when I cut back to a very small dose I noticed that I didn't experience massive weight gain.  This got me thinking about synthetic hormones and naturally produced hormones.  Before I begin, lets define our terms.  I classify anything that comes into contact with a lab even if it is naturally produced(Premarin) as being synthetic.   Naturally produced hormones are hormones produced naturally in genetic females around the age of puberty and until the menopause.
I reduced my dosage to a very small amount for two reasons (1) To prevent massive weight gain (2) I had read that if you want to greatly reduce the chances of developing the dreaded 'conical breasts' *you should start off on a low dosage and maintain this for quite a while.  The thinking behind this is that as it takes genetic females 6 years to fully develop breasts and they of course are subject to much higher daily dosages of oestrogen.  Then mtf's should take a long term view and not rush matters.   However, my sister who is only a couple of years younger than me never experienced the great weight gain that is common to mtfs.   The women in my family tend to be well-developed in the bust area, yet despite having in comparison to me huge amounts of oestrogen in her system my sister is and always has been slim.  Obviously very high amounts of naturally produced oestrogen doesn't lead to anywhere near a 30-50lb weight gain.   I have been tactfully looking at young women and the great majority aren't fat from exposure to oestrogen.  This has lead me to conclude that there is either something crucially different to synthetic oestrogen and/or oestrogen simply doesn't belong in a physically male body and when it is introduced to said body the effects are noticeably different from the effects that they would produce in a female body.   Hrt is of course manufactured to aid menopausal women cope with distressing symptoms at the end of their reproductive years.


* I know that some of us swear by progesterone, claiming that it helps to make the breasts fuller.  I believe that progesterone plays no part in breast development and many doctors agree with this.   Progesterone is present in genetic women because it helps keep the vagina moist etc.

I have LOST a significant amount of weight while on hormones (over 45lb).

It doesn't sound like you're asking a question as much as giving your opinion, but I'll give my own anyway.

My opinion is that 'natural' hormones, are any hormones that are molecularly the same as ones naturally found in the human body. Estradiol for example is, Equilin (found in premarin) most certainly is not. Prodrugs (substances that metabolize into another) of Estradiol also count as 'natural' in my mind.

Your body does NOT care how a substance was synthesized. It will react to what it is. How it came into existence is I don't think is at all relevant.

And I think that whatever a lot of doctors say about progesterones role in mtfs, a lot of OTHER doctors say that progesterone helps with breast development. And given that progesterone is well known to be what causes some of the breast development at that stage of female puberty, and the endless accounts of it having done exactly that, I'm going to side with the doctors who say that it DOES have an impact (which includes my own doctor).

Doctors, despite what some of them like to think about themselves, are NOT gods. They disagree with each other ALL the time. They DO NOT KNOW as much as some people like to attribute.

Lots of females increase in weight beyond a healthy level at puberty. Lots of females do not. Maybe your body reacts that way, if it does, my recommendation would be to combine HRT with diet and exercise.

Also, there's no such thing as "the male body" and "the female body". There is the human body, and within that human body, it has sexual characteristics, which are driven by hormones at various stages of development. Guided by the blueprints that are our chromosomes.

Please don't try to create theories of everything and try to apply them to everybody to explain your personal experiences. Everyone is different. There are some simple facts, but within those facts there are near infinite variables that determine your personal experience.

Some people gain weight on HRT, some don't. But I can't see any reason to think it has anything to do with it reacting differently in the 'male body', because it doesn't when compared with similar situations (CAIS, Many cisfemales, etc)

Quote from: Stephanie on August 19, 2010, 09:59:06 PM
I write from personal experience and observation.   Despite eating normally I gained almost 1lb per day, each and everyday, for 30 days.

Eating normally is the issue - you ate normally for abody whose metabolism was driven by testosterone.  Changing to HRT reqires you modify your diet.

There's a reason the stereotype of a man on a date eating a steak while a woman eats a salad.  Recommended caloric intake for a male is higher than that for a female.

Quote from: pheonix on August 20, 2010, 06:22:06 AM
Eating normally is the issue - you ate normally for abody whose metabolism was driven by testosterone.  Changing to HRT reqires you modify your diet.

There's a reason the stereotype of a man on a date eating a steak while a woman eats a salad.  Recommended caloric intake for a male is higher than that for a female.

Very good point, I'm kicking myself for not thinking to say that now. lol

Typically the caloric differences males/females are the result of muscle mass differences, which is the result of testosterone over very long periods.  While I could be wrong, it doesn't seem that 2 months is enough time to have an effect on her gross muscle mass.  Doesn't that take years?  Now, I personally am a stress eater.  Put on a lot of weight when I quit smoking, and boy, is it hard to get off.  I am wondering if going on hormones, and the typical drs appointments, getting drug, blood tests, etc. could have set off a stress period causing secret dates with "Ben and Jerry"?  I'm just asking.

one point to bear in mind about taking any medication is that our bodies are able to pick up very low traces of drugs/chemicals and be affected by them which is what Homeopathy is based on.   The Homeopaths claim that one drop of plant extract mixed with 1000 drops of water and then one drop of that mixed with 1000 drops of water is still a strong enough dose to cause some effect or other even though the final spoonful swallowed may have so few plant molecules in it as to seem to be nothing but water and any claimed results to be wishful thinking.

Taking estrogen without having a preliminary blood test to check what our natural levels of E and T are is a crap shoot though most of us did this so if we get some undesirable effects we can only blame ourselves.

What we really need to know in order to have a nice happy and effective feminising is A, what is the rate of rise of E in a typical girl entering puberty, and B, do we mimic that rate or increase it at some rate in order to combat the T?

As we are all different there is probably no way of knowing and maybe no best dose so we haev to fall back on experience and hope for the best.

It is possible that all the MtFs transition on HRT right now are getting satisfactory results but from a strict medical point those results may not be optimal and it may be that a lot of us are walking round with high BP, overweight, etc without knowing it or knowing why.

As MtFs taking E we need to know how it is affecting the eating mechanism apart from how it makes our bodies add fat to give us plump curves. 

The E must be penetrating to every bit of our body so logically it will be acting on the bit of brain that says Eat Now! and may make us directly or subconsciously choose foods and quantities that will add the fat to our curves - cakes and sweets.

I don't remember seeing any research into testing the hunger creating aspect of E but it may have been done as I do remember years ago that a lot of GGs complained that going on the pill made them fat.

The quantity of E in birth pills has been cut down and we don't read of them now causing much fatness but presumably even a low dose of E would fool a MtF body into thinking it needed to both pump out more T and eat T foods - steaks etc - which our stomachs transform into storable fat so it might be that on average MtF do gain weight on starting HRT.

oops:
so perhaps on starting E we subconsciously start eating to make cureves and at the same time eat to maintain maleness by overeating steak so that we are doubly overeating.

Aaargh I had written a really heart-felt post and lost it all because I got logged out.
 

I don't know if I have the energy to re-write it.

I want to explain why I appeared to 'freak out' over my oestrogen caused weight gain.    I am tall, in fact I am 6'4".  I know that I will never pass as a woman and if I attempt to do so I shall be met with stares etc every where I go.   Every day I pass girls and young women who even with heels on they are six, seven or eight inches smaller than me.    I get an intense psychological pain when ever I see these women as the height difference is stark!    I know that there are tall women, but tall women are few and far between here in GB, and only occasionally do I encounter a male who is taller than me.  The average height for  women in Great Britain is around 5'5" - 5'6" and I can confirm this from my daily observation.
After a long and careful and yes realistic assessment of myself and my situation I decided that I would attempt to feminise myself as far as possible without undergoing SRS, changing my gender officially etc.   So, I decided to start taking HRT.  The thought of secretly developing breasts and all the other secondary female characteristics went a long way to soothing my disphoria.   If I couldn't be myself openly, then I would just have to express myself in a much less visible way.   Now imagine my horror when upon starting oestrogen I started getting visibly fatter by the day.   I may be tall but pre-HRT I was at least slender, after taking oestrogen for a period of time I was becoming FAT as well as tall.   I found this to be intolerable!   Pre-HRT I at least could wear most of the clothes that I liked, becoming 30lbs + heavier meant that I had to stop wearing all my present clothes, but the thought of wearing tent-like dresses and skirts and bras that fitted me around the chest but were far too big in the cups was extraordinary depressing.   Tall and slim I could just about cope with, but tall and fat?!!

To end on a more positive note, now that my weight has gone back to near normal.   I am going to start taking oestrogen again but in the smallest dose available.    Last time I took what I now consider to be too large a dose for someone just starting out, also I didn't take Spiro.   Do you think that the lack of an anti-androgen and too high a dose would explain my turning into a Sumo girl?