Ok so I have 2 girl friends here that are really supportive of my transition and seem like they will play important roles in helping me explore femininity which is great but I seem to still run into a brick wall.

So the three of us have planned for me to hang out as my girl self this weekend which is going to be a first for me (in really scared) and we went out to grab some dinner last night to talk about it a little.  The problem I seem to.face is that when I'm around "people" I feel kind of the need or obligation to be my male self?  Does anybody else know what I'm talking about?  I wonder if its just that I'm aware that I'm presenting myself as a male, talking like a guy and find it contradictory to let my girl out?  Like I want to practice my voice when I'm with them but just can't get myself to.  I really want to just let go and feel comfortable but I get consumed with anxiety... its kinda like having 25 years of constantly being aware of my actions making sure I'm not feminine and now trying not to feel that way overnight... my guy and girl self seem to be contradictory at times

I guess what I'm asking is if there is a big difference between your guy self and your girl self and how do you go about not doing the guy things your so used to doing.and just let go?  Or was it more natural for others?  I hope ill feel more.comfortable opening up and being myself this weekend when I'm with them being myself but I'm kinda scared that I won't know how to.act around them, even tho they know what's going on with me? 

I feel like I should know more about how to be a girl than I think I do sometimes... its overwhelming this transition sometimes

I would hesitate to give a definitive answer to this because I really don't think there is one.

Some people will tell you that there is a vast difference and that their repressed side emerged slowly. Other will say there is no difference. So which of them is right? I don't know, and I don't think it matters as long as you are comfortable with what you are and others around you are also happy.

I would say for me there was little or no difference, but then because I grew up in a very avant-garde 1960's family without any rigid gender boundaries being enforced on me, and indeed having come out to my parents about my belief that I was a girl at the age of about 4 or 5 I am probably not the typical case. My parents never tried to force conformity and indeed sent me to schools where the ethos was strongly all about "encouraging the child to express their truest inner self" - no prizes for guessing what that meant for me... I got away with murder, even to the point of wearing a kilt as my school uniform, which was a close as social propriety would let me get to a skirt. To me it was one!

If you have been rigidly drilling into gender conformity I guess that things would indeed be different. So like I say I don't think there is a right and wrong way to do this. I think the answer is to relax and just go with the flow and see what happens.

Nice Avatar pic by the way

Thanks

I'm not specifically looking for an "answer" but more so discussion on the topic and others perspectives about first coming out and presenting as female in front of other people and the emotions, anxieties and feelings that came with it.

I know everybody is different and thats what makes it all so interesting to hear stories from others for comfort and advice

My family wasn't rigid with gender boundaries, but society was and trying to fit in and make friends I think affected me the most suppressing my feelings.

We are the same.  We are different.  For me, I had to learn some aspects of being a woman and was lucky to have some mentors.  Little things, like not putting stuff in your pockets, not having a straight part in your hair - kind of the subtle, fine touches.  The biggest thing, though, was unlearning how to act like a man.  It was a gradual process, helped along by the support and acceptance of others.

After learning to go against your nature and act a certain way for 25 years (65 years for me ), it is difficult to let go.  But in a sense I think that is what you have to do: let go.  Sure, you may make a fool of yourself for a while until you settle down, but soon you will discover who you are inside and let that shine out. 

Having a couple of girlfriends to hold your hand through the treacherous waters of transition is a wonderful thing.  I hope you appreciate them.  Good luck, dear.  Just relax and be yourself - your true self.

- Kate

I'm also a bit nervous about presenting my true self. I know a lot of my attitudes and responses are genuine, but the thought of finally presenting as a woman, scares me a bit. For myself I think it has more to do with being able to pass though. I hate that I can be superficial but I can't help it, I want to not only pass as a woman, I want to be pretty.

My girlfriend has pointed out several times that she doesn't see how she never noticed before I told her now that she knows and watches for it. Apparently all of my friends along with her just accounted it to me being very unique and able to be completely accepted into the female world even while presenting male.

But I don't know, I'm terrified of coming out in full dress and looking like a fish out of water, or not knowing how to act or doing something that I've programmed myself to do in order to pass as a guy as well.

I guess this is something we each will have to work through in our own way, for myself it has more to do with looking the part since I already act it, I'll just need to remove some of the guy traits that I always try to throw in.

Not sure if this helps you any or not, or if I'm just rambling.

Gabby

Quote from: rylielove on August 25, 2010, 08:45:41 AM
Ok so I have 2 girl friends here that are really supportive of my transition and seem like they will play important roles in helping me explore femininity which is great but I seem to still run into a brick wall.

So the three of us have planned for me to hang out as my girl self this weekend which is going to be a first for me (in really scared) and we went out to grab some dinner last night to talk about it a little.  The problem I seem to.face is that when I'm around "people" I feel kind of the need or obligation to be my male self?  Does anybody else know what I'm talking about?  I wonder if its just that I'm aware that I'm presenting myself as a male, talking like a guy and find it contradictory to let my girl out?  Like I want to practice my voice when I'm with them but just can't get myself to.  I really want to just let go and feel comfortable but I get consumed with anxiety... its kinda like having 25 years of constantly being aware of my actions making sure I'm not feminine and now trying not to feel that way overnight... my guy and girl self seem to be contradictory at times

I guess what I'm asking is if there is a big difference between your guy self and your girl self and how do you go about not doing the guy things your so used to doing.and just let go?  Or was it more natural for others?  I hope ill feel more.comfortable opening up and being myself this weekend when I'm with them being myself but I'm kinda scared that I won't know how to.act around them, even tho they know what's going on with me? 

I feel like I should know more about how to be a girl than I think I do sometimes... its overwhelming this transition sometimes

Wish i could be of help, i could relate to groups of women at young age and felt comfortable in groups like that, men, always felt awkward like i didnt know what i was doing or what to expect, when it became time for me to transition, all i did was stop the male act and let things happen naturally.  I didnt try to act like a girl, it just happened on its own, i had to try and act like a guy actually.... being a girl felt liberating since i didnt have to deal with the walls i put up when i was a guy.

Falling back to the male self is going into your comfort zone.  You need to step outside of your comfort box to be able to grow.

I did that when I first started and now I am in a new comfort box, just being me. 

Good luck with your weekend and just have fun with it.

I think it's a yes and no thing. I feel the same way, that I should know how how a woman acts, and that's one of my biggest problems.

But this tendency to divide male and female actions and reactions is what the issue is. People expect males and females to act according to sterotype, and it's all very silly. If you knew me completely online, you could swear up down and sideways I'm a girl. But meet me IRL? You'd be like "Are you sure you're the same person?", and then you start to notice male traits. It's a matter of what you percieve and what you expect. Get right down to the core, we're all humans, we're just behaving according to social cues.

There's a mild change, yes, between a male and female self. A lot of people express they're more outgoing when presenting as female, which makes sense to me, you'd be outgoing if you were forced to play a part for years and you're finally you. But the core of who you are, your values, beliefs, and such, are not affected by it at all. You'll be the same person, but you'll be playing a different part. There are some behaviors that are just part of being accepted as a certain gender, but they're not mandatory. It just makes it harder to pass if you don't do them. Questionable as the books were, the first meeting with Bellas father after she became a vampire in the Twilight series is an interesting analogy. She has to be trained to sit, act, and talk like a human, so people don't notice something amiss. It's the same thing, just getting the external things down. They're not you, they're just a part of being a member of the human race.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on August 25, 2010, 12:48:25 PM
Falling back to the male self is going into your comfort zone.  You need to step outside of your comfort box to be able to grow.

I did that when I first started and now I am in a new comfort box, just being me. 

Good luck with your weekend and just have fun with it.

Wow you felt comfortable being a guy, i was always anxious and nervous, especially around other guys.   

After 50 plus years it became a well rehearsed cover.  Not that I was comfortable, but I could hide very well there.  I was always the loner and that also kept people away.

I can relate to the falling into a comfort zone kinda thing... its not that I'm comfortable being a guy but I know how people react and treat me based on that personality so theres comfort knowing how people treat you.  There's fear not knowing how people are going to treat you especially at the start of transition.

Does that make more sense with the comfort zone kinda thing? That's how I relate to it at least...

I was never very good at "being a guy" and even back in the 1950's people knew there was something odd about me. By the late 1960's I couldn't even pull off the guy act.

Trying to pretend to be a guy meant watching everything I said, how I said it, how I sat, moved, looked at people - EVERYTHING had to be practiced .... and even then I didn't do it very well. When I started living part  time en femme (mid 1960's) I found that my 'girl self' was just totally natural if I simply relaxed and went with my instincts. It sure made transition easy 

Your 'girl self' is probably in there and will come flooding out when you stop TRYING to be something you are not.

Quote from: rylielove on August 25, 2010, 01:27:27 PM
I can relate to the falling into a comfort zone kinda thing... its not that I'm comfortable being a guy but I know how people react and treat me based on that personality so theres comfort knowing how people treat you.  There's fear not knowing how people are going to treat you especially at the start of transition.

Does that make more sense with the comfort zone kinda thing? That's how I relate to it at least...

Yes it does. It's exactly the same for me. I'm still unsecure when dealing with everyday folks as soon as it gets more personal than a short chat in a Mom-and-Pop store or something like that. But then, I always had trouble getting along with people who were not queer at least in one way. Or highly skilled, or from a multicultural background, with mental disorders or whatever. "Normal" people just don't work for me, I don't know why, maybe I just can't relax well there. Or I just find them boring. Before transition, I had the same problems as now, but at least I had figured out over time how people reacted to my actions, and how they interpreted them, and what message they got depending on what I sent them.

I had hardly any chance of passing before T due to some physical aspects - I had extreme woman-child features compared to the more "Walkyrian" girls here in Germany, and I am very small and of a slender built - I'm no German, and both males and females from my people tend to be much smaller and more slenderly built than Germans. But I don't look definitely exotic either, so people thought I was a German girl. Almost no German guy was built like me, though many guys of my folk are. But I live in Germany, so... well it ruined my passing no matter what I tried. Plus I live in a city with a huge LGBT scene and all these butch lesbians being seen in everyday life did not help me for my passing at all (I don't mind them being around though as I think they have a right to exist on their own, plus many of them look hot as hell).

Best passing I had was when I wore drag, long skirts in screamy colors. This brought me at risk of being beaten up for being a transvestite several times, as I "was definitely a male as I walked like a guy though I was very small and had a delicate build" - original quote, and I never even wore high-heels, which looks horrible when I try to walk in them. But I still did dress like in drag, in spite of the risk, as at least then I passed - at least then - hooray. So you see I almost got no pre-testo-experience of being seen as male unless I was seen as a transvestite, or on rare occasions, as a gay teenage guy (my boyfriend and me got harrassed for that on two or three occasions).

Now, it's more difficult, as a lot is new. Whatever was okay for me to do before seems harrassing women or disturbing men now, whatever was inappropriate before seems okay now etc. Lots of things get read differently, not all, but many. Thanks God I look under-age though I'm in my mid-thirties, so people forgive me a lot of my mistakes. I feel much better being read as a guy now, but I'm unsecure how to react in appropriate ways, and I still have trouble getting along with "non-queers". I tend to overlook a lot and I am very distracted, so that doesn't help me getting aware of feedbacks. I think I'll grow into it over time. And at least, I don't get thrown into my face any more that I'm a "woman" all the time. That alone is worth all the fuss.

Many people wonder a lot about whether I'm gay and ask me "trap questions" to see if I am gonna out myself as gay. But I don't care about it, hell, I'm bi, so it's okay. Nevertheless, I don't feel that easy about it. Before, as a girl, I often got transformed into a fetish as soon as I said I'm a bi, and straight people never clocked me unless I had very short hair and ran around butch style, which I sometimes did. Straight guys often asked me when they found out (as I've always been out as bi, means, answering questions honestly) whether they could have a threesome. Now, it can be even harsher than that. As a bi guy, I risk to get really bad reactions from straight guys. But I have not tested it yet. Some are good at clocking me, others don't have a clue. The FTM phenomenon being unknown, that's a big advantage for me.

Sorry, you're an MTF, and some of what I wrote here does not apply to you - e. g. passing but first as a very young teenager or generally as a gay guy etc. But I can relate to your comfort zone idea. It's something you are used to, you know the rules, how things work, which of your actions provoke which reactions etc.

[quote author=rylielove
So the three of us have planned for me to hang out as my girl self this weekend which is going to be a first for me (in really scared) and we went out to grab some dinner last night to talk about it a little.  The problem I seem to.face is that when I'm around "people" I feel kind of the need or obligation to be my male self?  Does anybody else know what I'm talking about?  I
[/quote]

I've never felt this way but in the days when I used to go clubbing with a large group of CD/TVs off a chatroom I used I did notice that some of the people would dress and make up quite nice but then use exagggerated male body language and drink beer and talk about soccer so they were not TS to my reckoning.   
I used to chat about srs and internet hormones and stuff with the pre and post ops and the difference between the two groups was very noticeable even though some of the straight drinkers used to run us all down as being blokes in frocks.
Last I heard none of them has ever changed into a TS and transitioned.

I can't offer advice, but my limited experience so far is as Janet says, not so much a comfort thing, but a well rehearsed act, I've been pretending to be a boy/man for a long time, I'm a bit of a people watcher, I find body language really interesting, though it probably because I had to learn how to be a man to the world,  and to be honest, I get scared when I act as my true self, but with that said, on rare occassions that I do get to express my feminine side, I feel better about myself and the world.
As for my personality, I don't think there is too much difference, other than being happier, less anxious, and more anxious at the same time.
I do feel that I don;t know as much as I should, but  think thats because I didn;t grow up as a girl and I'm yet to experience life as a girl to the rest of the world.
Just my two cents,

Tali

My guy persona is a complete fake. Think of Humphrey Bogart as a tough guy. The difference is he had talent and could be himself most of the time.

I've spent most of my life practicing this part. I see a baby and have to act as a man would. I watch a soppy film and have to hold back my tears. In company, other men think I'm an easy wimp and girls see right through me.

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have a fantastic wife who knows me and I can be myself. I can come home, stewing and she understands. I know I'm so fortunate and feel very badly for those who are like me, but alone.

This cannot go on for another generation.

You know, I have been doing a lot of life review lately and I just realized something today that should have been stupidly obvious. Most of my male friends are far from macho types. Gay, CD, Metrosexual, yes, but Macho no. I've been searching for the inner girl and she has been much closer to the surface the whole time. Around these men I could express emotions and not fear recrimination and scorn. I intentionally avoided very male places like bars and sports locker rooms where I had to act more. I always felt non-genuine in "butch" circumstances, but I always assumed the guys around me were acting too. I guess denial is a powerful thing.

I've reached a point where presenting male is become more and more alien and makes me feel awkward and out of place. I'm lucky in that i have lots of very supportive friends so I can basically do what the hell i want without fear of censure.

I've always been mostly a loner, with very few friends.  Since starting this journey, I've met more friendly people than in the past 30 years, and I've made my first really **good** friend in 36 years.  And I haven't even started to transition yet.  I can only imagine!  And, like Melody, I've recently realized some things that should've been obvious clues - like until I met my wife, I had never touched a girl sexually, all my partners (not many) had been boys/men.  This, even though I did not self-identify as gay, and my primary orientation is towards women.  At least, pre-HRT...

And, yes, I've always avoided the uber-macho venues also.  So, yeah, I've been putting on an act for 54 years, and I'm finding now that I'm allowing my inner girl to have a say in things, it's a lot easier and happier.  Like Spacial's avatar says: "HELL, YES!!"

Usually around the house I'm in dressed-down girl mode (no makeup/hair) and walk the walk and talk the talk.

But when the children start to act up or need to get in trouble.. watch out here comes dad with the BOOMING commanding bass and imposing 300lb 6'1" Conan the Barbarian pose!  Happily my kids are pretty good so i don't have to go there very often and they usually respond better to me en femme.

Also i find that as I get tired / lazy I slouch, mumble in boy voice, and revert to gross boy mannerisms (as I belch and adjust my crotch )

In boy mode(in public) I usually am pretty fluid with my voice, mannerisms, and dress / makeup / nails / accessories, although I have a very masculine face, I present pretty andro anyway - most of my work mates think I'm closet gay and have told me so.  I don't really have a lot of "guy" friends and work in San Francisco so they're like "whatever."  Whenever the topic comes up around my sexuality, I respond that no I'm just one of the girls and I find attractive whoever I feel like finding attractive -- and my 'mates laugh it off.  And the subject changes.  Oh well. 

Maybe one of these days I'll get up the nerve to go out en femme but I just don't feel adequate.  And my spouse really isn't ready for me to lose the beard yet she really likes it, which would draw attention to the "man with a beard"- in a a blouse and skirt!!   

Cheers,
Rayalisse