Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 13, 2010, 11:14:07 PM
So I'm a little more than 5 months post-op and I've almost completely lost my width. I did my best with the dilation and kept a steady routine - even coming home from work during lunch break and ending up being consistently late getting back. I started to have difficulty so I emailed the clinic and they told me to step down to a smaller dilator. That's when things all started going downhill; it didn't get any easier and the day came about a month ago when I could no longer insert the smallest dilator.

Hi Dàwkbua,

Can I ask, what prevented you from dilating?  Was it pain?  Discomfort?

I just ask because I went through a really bad time at about 2.5 - 4.5 months in, but managed to fight through it.  It was painful, discomforting, and even bloody.   I managed to get my (sympathetic) local doc to give me pain pills for dilations through month 4, and it was needed.   But the key was to fight through it, at least in my case.   

I have no idea what you are experiencing, I can only relate my experience.  I sent Sophie a few desperate emails, and her responses got me through it.  I think the best was the picture of the scar ring, and I just knew that I had to focus on that when it was to hard to 'chew' through it, even with the smallest dilator.  Like Birdy related, I can remember spending 6-10 minutes just to break through that scar ring.. it was tight, and I really thought I was messed up, that it was so hard to get through, sometimes thinking I never would.  I had a few dilations where I would give up, but I would get right back to it ...  because I knew it HAD to be done.

I wish you the best of luck, and all of my best wishes are with you.  I am not telling you to push yourself on your dilations, because I'm no doctor and I don't want you to hurt yourself, but I know that I pushed to a point at times, both in the stirring lateral motions, as well as depth-wise, that I wondered if I weren't doing something wrong, because it HURT so much.  The depth dilation was at times, like pushing right into my bowel, and it felt, so horrid.  I would bleed when I stirred hard for the width exercises, but holding the dilator in, and still for a bit of time (the manual tells you to do this), the bleeding would stop quickly.  This whole regimen is extremely hard, and no manual, or clinic girls can prepare you (or well, me) for what happens when you get home and are faced with this thing on your own.  Not truly. 

Ultimately you HAVE to listen to Sophie.  She has the experience.  She's been through this with hundreds of women.  She is your link.  Trust her, and follow her guidance.  I doubted her at times, but I read her emails over and over, and just followed them, she really does know what she is talking about.  She did spend the time to answer my questions and issues.

One thing I noted from something you said in a previous post in this thread, ask Sophie directly about the 15 minute limit you cited earlier.   I've never dilated for only 15 minutes.  My dilations last from 35-60 minutes, even now, at 7 months post op.   I only do one every day or two now, but I always make it a long one, just out of practice.   Even when I was dilating 2-3 times a day, I was doing at least  45 minutes each.   

My thoughts are with you, and I hope you can persevere and get through this without additional surgery.

*huggs*,
Melan

Quote from: Melan on August 23, 2010, 07:17:38 PMCan I ask, what prevented you from dilating?  Was it pain?  Discomfort?

The dilator physically will not go in. I'm already too small to accommodate any of the dilators; the day I became unable to do so I wrote to Sophie and she said there isn't much she can tell me other than to relax.

The pain level is such that right now, when I attempt to stretch to about half an inch diameter, in addition to the stretching sensation I get a sharp stabbing pain on one side. For about 3-4 hours after that, I'm literally laying down on the couch screaming into a pillow. My post-dilation pain gets up to about an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most intense pain I can imagine. I've been prescribed tramadol and vicodin and even when taken together at maximum allowed dosage they're still not easing it enough to go about day to day life.

This is why I'm unsure what to do. I was going to increase frequency today from 2x/day to 3 or 4 times, but the pain lasted so long that I'm reluctant to do another stretching session right now.

I've wondered if I should try to force a dilator in and do my best to ignore the pain no matter how intense. I've never bled from dilation so maybe that is a sign that I didn't do it forcefully enough. How bad was the discomfort when you forced the dilator in? I noticed you said you had to "break through" the ring; is it that you had to push until it tore or otherwise gave way?

Though it was a long time ago.... in my case....

I remember it being uncomfortable.... as opposed to so painful one would stop doing it?

And after 6 months or so I got off the rigid glass bullets and moved onto a funky dildo.... which I found an all together better curved shape and experience...

Along the lines of ones made by Lelo Ella... so it wouldn't frighten off the cleaner if she found it in my bedside draw...lol

It really would seem to me to be an issue where you need to get back to the surgeon.... which I know if he's in another country to the one you currently reside in..... is not particularly helpful right now...

Alternatively seek another Dr or specialist that could do a consult for you? As a professional consult with this maybe the best way to regain confidence with what it is you need to do?

as I'm possibly getting surgery in September and need to know about dilating and don't want Dawkbua's trauma can I ask about the physical aspects of actually cutting the inside flesh tyo make the new vagina canal?
Sitting here and feeling myself I'm thinking there is just a thinnish flesh over the hole in the pelvis where the vagina canal will be and then there is the muscle that has to have a hole made through it.
I remeber seeing the programme with Miss Evans and she just used her finger to sort of push a way through or under the flesh/muscle and then she inverted and inserted the penis skin.
So if Dawkbua's problems isn't a bad infection what else can be giving such pain?
I've been in road crash and had other operations and my boob job was as painful as I've ever felt but I don't want a pain like dawkbua is having.
this youtube shows where the new vagina will be so is there anything in there that could be harmed during surgery or has nerves that could be causing the pain?

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 24, 2010, 06:38:25 PM
The pain level is such that right now, when I attempt to stretch to about half an inch diameter, in addition to the stretching sensation I get a sharp stabbing pain on one side. For about 3-4 hours after that, I'm literally laying down on the couch screaming into a pillow.

I've wondered if I should try to force a dilator in and do my best to ignore the pain no matter how intense. I've never bled from dilation so maybe that is a sign that I didn't do it forcefully enough. How bad was the discomfort when you forced the dilator in? I noticed you said you had to "break through" the ring; is it that you had to push until it tore or otherwise gave way?

This is way out of the realm of my experience.  It never felt like tearing for me, when trying to get through the ring.  That would be bad.  And the pain you are describing is *well* beyond what I felt.   I have no suggestions at this point, I'm so sorry you are going through this, and hope you receive a solution.

Please take care,
Melan

Well it sounds like my experience is quite atypical.    At least I can report that is showing signs of getting easier....

I'm going to have my gynecologist do an internal exam when I see her. I'm hoping maybe there's something she can recommend. I don't understand why the surgeon doesn't just leave a stent in there for a while like they do any other opening that one doesn't want to have close up.

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 25, 2010, 03:21:48 PM
as I'm possibly getting surgery in September and need to know about dilating and don't want Dawkbua's trauma can I ask about the physical aspects of actually cutting the inside flesh tyo make the new vagina canal?
Sitting here and feeling myself I'm thinking there is just a thinnish flesh over the hole in the pelvis where the vagina canal will be and then there is the muscle that has to have a hole made through it.

No one can guarantee that your experience will be anything like mine or unlike mine. But it seems like my difficulty level is atypical. As far as grafting the skin onto the internal tissue, I was surprised to find out that my surgeon actually does this but the result is very good in that respect. It's only the scar tissue that's a disadvantage. Who is your surgeon going to be? I believe Suporn is the only one who does it that way.

At about 3 months or so I had problems getting my number 3 dilator in, it was painful, took forever, and bled every time. I nearly gave up on it, but realized that if I did, number 2 could eventually get that difficult, and if I gave that up, number 1 as well. I persevered through almost a month of fighting with getting number three in and being in pain throughout the dilation session. Now it slips in almost as easy as number one and number 2. Generally, I start with number one, which has resistance at first, especially in the evening when I get home from work. I work through the resistance, and then all is fine. This is just my experience, I almost gave up at the height of the pain and bleeding trying to keep using number 3, eventually I won!

hey Katgirl so have you been able to get to #4 yet or are you still on 3 , and buy the way  congrats on winnning the battle lol

Quote from: katgirl74 on August 25, 2010, 09:31:59 PM
At about 3 months or so I had problems getting my number 3 dilator in, it was painful, took forever, and bled every time. I nearly gave up on it, but realized that if I did, number 2 could eventually get that difficult, and if I gave that up, number 1 as well. I persevered through almost a month of fighting with getting number three in and being in pain throughout the dilation session. Now it slips in almost as easy as number one and number 2. Generally, I start with number one, which has resistance at first, especially in the evening when I get home from work. I work through the resistance, and then all is fine. This is just my experience, I almost gave up at the height of the pain and bleeding trying to keep using number 3, eventually I won!

I'm having that same issue, but with the #4. It was much easier a couple weeks ago and I was even starting with the #3, but as time has gone by and with more healing it has gotten more difficult. I now have to start with the #2, then #3, and the #4 is so tight I'm usually crying by the time I work it in. Dr. McGinn did say it would get more difficult before it got better as the inside heals and tightens up, but you are absolutely right about not giving up on the larger size because that would only make it worse.

I've been massaging in pure lanolin cream (the kind that's made for breastfeeding mothers) about 10 minutes before a session and that is helping to soften the skin and make it more pliable but it still bleeds sometimes. At least it's good to know it gets better eventually!

Quote from: katgirl74 on August 25, 2010, 09:31:59 PM
At about 3 months or so I had problems getting my number 3 dilator in, it was painful, took forever, and bled every time. I nearly gave up on it, but realized that if I did, number 2 could eventually get that difficult, and if I gave that up, number 1 as well. I persevered through almost a month of fighting with getting number three in and being in pain throughout the dilation session. Now it slips in almost as easy as number one and number 2. Generally, I start with number one, which has resistance at first, especially in the evening when I get home from work. I work through the resistance, and then all is fine. This is just my experience, I almost gave up at the height of the pain and bleeding trying to keep using number 3, eventually I won!

Really good stuff to know before hand. Thanks Kat and Chloe for the heads up and the advice to NOT GIVE UP.

I remember a friend of mine also had issues with #3, so she just shoved it in one day and caused some tearing to the sides of the entry, but hey, since then she can slide it right in, no issues 

An interesting thread and Dawkbua, my heart goes out to you but don't give up, if you need to do more dilations per day, do it, it may be cumbersome but the end result is what matters.

I also found the scar tissue got very tight as it healed but found by starting with the smallest dilator and gradually working up to the largest it didn't take to long to stretch it out.  My doctor told me to start with No1 and hold in at full depth for 1 minute, then No2 for 2 minutes and so on up to the largest you can take which you leave in for 15 minutes, so I have always spent 35 to 45 minutes dilating at each session, sometimes longer if there is something good on TV.

This thread is a good indicator to those contemplating surgery on how important dilation is.  Yes it's time consuming, yes it's uncomfortable sometimes painful, yes it's a damn pain in the butt having to do it all the time and yes sometimes some people have problems, but it is so extremely important to keep up particularly in the first 12 months of so.

Dawbua, I hope everything sorts itself out soon, my thoughts are with you.

 

Quote from: Dàwkbua  It's only the scar tissue that's a disadvantage. Who is your surgeon going to be? I believe Suporn is the only one who does it that way.
/quote]
I'll be having Inglefield in London.   I need a colon-vaginoplasty and shoudl have no problems with tightness of the actual lining and I did notice that when he was examining me he did press quite hard on the place behind my scrotum where the hole in our pelvises is as if to check that there was a big enough gap in the bones.

Have you tried dilating in the shower, immediately after douching? 

Quote from: glendagladwitch on August 26, 2010, 08:39:13 AM
Have you tried dilating in the shower, immediately after douching?

I haven't. I should.

Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.

I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.

My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
I haven't. I should.

Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.

I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.

My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.

Dawkbua I'm so very sorry to hear about your situation.  It's also very sad that the clinic was unsuccessful in helping you.  Why are you reluctant to say publicly what made you lose confidence in their staff.  Treatment like that should not be tolerated and should be made public for the sake of others considering surgery.

For a long time there was bad things being said about the office staff in Montreal.  I guess word got around and things have greatly improved.

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
I haven't. I should.

Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.

I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.

My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.

My Heart pours out to you. I will keep you in my prayers!!!!

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
I haven't. I should.

Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.

I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.

My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.

So sorry to hear this and my heart goes out to you and also my prayers. Have you tried using an Ortho Vaginal Applicator to get some lube in and around there first?

Stardust

Well I guess I want to not be that person who makes waves and talks smack about the clinic. But that's a good point about improving things. Well suffice it to say I followed the advice that the clinic gave me before, and now they're telling me to never do the very thing they said to do because the result would be dire. So I replied that it's too late and I've already gotten to that dire place.

As I was typing this she responded and it seems she still doesn't realize that I am unable to use the dilators. I just let her have it.

Quote from: meSophie,

You continue to not understand what I am saying. I already told you six times in my last email alone that it is impossible to insert any of the dilators, or any object larger than about half the diameter of the smallest one. My ring has been this way for more than a month. I have already tried stretching as much as I could, pressing hard against the ring to try to push it outwards, and there is a limit to how much the tissue will stretch.

I agree that the only solution I can see right now involves cutting the scar tissue open to widen the vaginal opening. I am going to ask my gynecologist if this can be done and some sort of stent can be inserted that will prevent further contraction and allow me to slide the small dilator in for purposes of maintaining depth.

I don't have enough to pay my bills to prevent my belongings from being auctioned off so there is absolutely no way in the world short of winning the damn lottery that I can fly to Thailand any time soon. And why would I spend that kind of money just to go there and have Dr Suporn tell me there's nothing he can do? "Well you're screwed and you're out the price of an expensive plane ticket, have a nice life" isn't the kind of medical care I paid 495,000 Baht for.

Following your advice was what got me into this predicament so I am not going to follow it anymore. I will be seeking medical assistance here in the USA where it may not be free but at least it's usually competent. I will continue to send updates.

Thanks for nothing.
Julie

I've just burned a bridge.

Laura is right, there is no reason to kiss butt as they weren't doing much to help you anyway.  It sounds like they indeed screwed up and now they are back peddling to save face.  This is the type of info that has to be made public, not just of your surgeon, but of all surgeons and their staff who fail to be accountable for their actions.  If people fail to speak up, then incidences such as these will continue to escalate.  Perhaps you should seek a consult with either Brassard or Meltzer.  During my consult with Brassard, he indicated to me that he was doing many revisions of botched surgeries and showed me a couple examples.  It is going to cost you either way and your best bet is with someone who is experienced with srs.  Whatever you do don't go back to Thailand even if they offer you free airfare and a crate of chili sauce!

Just out of curiosity, what was the original advice the clinic offered that got you in this mess?