What is your ideal image of what Man should be like ?

I'm having serious issues with this question, myself.

By "Man" I assume you mean "humankind".

I think we should be happy and give in to the magic of life.

Quote from: SnailPace on August 27, 2010, 01:24:01 PM
By "Man" I assume you mean "humankind".

I think we should be happy and give in to the magic of life.

Actually, I said something stupid. Which comes to prove that being an androgyne doesn't make you any less prone to inadvertently offending people and whatnot.

I want to find the ideal definition of manhood, as opposed to womanhood.

I.e. what makes a man, man?
Regardless of original biological factors, I want to find the social, personal, spiritual, et al, factors which only men would have.

(also, loldrugs)

Not sure, I picture something lonely, in a flapping coat who don't compromise and tends to scowl but smile at cute kids. A protector, but only when nudged out of self sufficiency -  a mystery.

Most people would like to give you a lot of stereotypical answers about what it means to be male, a man, possess 'manhood' etc.

Manhood is whatever someone wants it to be.

Manhood should be about caring, honesty, open-ness, emotion, stability, responsibility, fallibility, a recognition of one's humanity and the vulnerability of our species.

The same things that womanhood should be about. When you throw aside stereotypes about what each gender should or should not be, we are all the same, all human. We have the same wants and needs and the same things should be expected of everyone, like I said already.

hmm ,a man: someone who is disgusting , careless ,immature , inconsiderate of others' feelings and wants to have sex at any given time t    lol thats pretty much what a certain friend of mine said when was asked by me  . of course in a jokingly way tho so no offense ^_^

anyway , a non-stereotypical definition of a man doesnt exist imho , because defining for groups is pretty much stereotyping.
so what makes a man a man , hmm thats a tough one because , it's not the Y because a lot of guys , bio or not, dont have the Y and a lot of women have it . and it's not the body because a lot of guys dont have a guy's body and vice versa. besides a 'manhood' of a man doesnt change it's something that will stay there forever , and body changes.

i can go on with that list forever , list of whats not manhood , but what exactly is manhood ? my mind is blank on that one
so personally , i consider someone else a man if he considers himself to be one
i use some stereotypical defs to recognize a man  , say in chat , same way you can tell a 12 yo from a 31 yo , from the way they talk , things they want and so
what makes a man a an errrrn , i'm honestly to bewildered and dont know , but if ithink something through im gonna put another reply. but overall i guess it's HIS feeling of being a man that makes him one , yes?

what is manhood? good question one I cant answer without stereotypes an easier question at least for me is.- how do you prove your manhood?
I failed on all counts
talk about girls like there only use is sex,
use violence (or threat of violence) to get your own way.
beat a "real man" (Alpha male) at something physical that requires strength.

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on August 27, 2010, 01:35:26 PM
I want to find the ideal definition of manhood, as opposed to womanhood.

Honestly, if someone says, "I'm a dude," then to me they're a dude.  It's all about self perception and confidence.  I don't think there is one thing that makes a person a man or woman other than that person knowing that they are a man or a woman or whatever they happen to be.  Your own self perception will present itself to the people around you.

I really wanted to write "a penis." 

This is what I think...

Man is a creature of strength, who will gladly stand any pain, suffering and bother so that those loved by Him are not hurt.
Man protects that which is precious to him, even if that may cost his own life.
Man thinks, acts and exists with the purpose of his Precious Thing, whatever it may be, a woman, a child, an idea or land.
Man is miserable if he doesn't have a reason for doing things.
Man will search land, water, or space in order to find "It".

This gives me a very uneasy feeling, since it means that many women I know are much more manly than many men I know, lol.

Quote from: Jaimey on September 01, 2010, 11:07:50 PM
Honestly, if someone says, "I'm a dude," then to me they're a dude.  It's all about self perception and confidence.  I don't think there is one thing that makes a person a man or woman other than that person knowing that they are a man or a woman or whatever they happen to be.  Your own self perception will present itself to the people around you.

I really wanted to write "a penis." 

Same!  Minus the bit in little writing, because I'm a guy(-ish, ask me a few days XD)--I just somehow got stuck in a girl's body.

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on September 02, 2010, 06:59:35 PM
This is what I think...

Man is a creature of strength, who will gladly stand any pain, suffering and bother so that those loved by Him are not hurt.
Man protects that which is precious to him, even if that may cost his own life.
Man thinks, acts and exists with the purpose of his Precious Thing, whatever it may be, a woman, a child, an idea or land.
Man is miserable if he doesn't have a reason for doing things.
Man will search land, water, or space in order to find "It".

This gives me a very uneasy feeling, since it means that many women I know are much more manly than many men I know, lol.

Everyone can be that if they want, or not. It's call being human. All humans can be like that. I don't understand why people try to quantify 'manliness' and 'womanliness' or 'masculine' and 'feminine'. This is the modern age where anyone can be whatever they want.

Quote from: Phate on September 03, 2010, 12:20:35 AM
I don't understand why people try to quantify 'manliness' and 'womanliness' or 'masculine' and 'feminine'.

Because of biological factors.

Also, you know what you are by knowing what you are not.

Definitions are the closest thing to communicating what is it inside you, but when your basic definitions are backwards, it puts all other definitions in a strange light.

Consider the word "left": It has an imaginary limit, from the center of your point of reference to the left  side, is what we call left. Everything else is "not left".

Now consider "woman": It has an imaginary limit, from the androgyny to the manliness. But where does each end, and each other start ?
That is the problem I'm stuck with.

As an androgyne, that is Very Effin Important^tm.

But the way you described 'Man' and then made the comment that you know many women who are more 'manly' than men, makes me wonder why you can't just be a human. I used to frequent the Androgyne boards a lot and I have considered myself everything from woman to man, to androgyne, genderfluid, genderqueer, and even ftm. I haven't even settled yet. I don't see the need to quantify personality traits and quirks with a gender, when it's ALL just human nature, not 'women nature' or 'men nature'.

I also understand that gender expression is important, I respect that. But when you are talking about basic human wants and needs, like the urge to protect their loved ones, stand in the face of a threat to their loved ones, etc, I think everyone who has a loved one would do that, regardless of their sex or gender.

I don't have a problem with you wanting to find a definition for masculinity, which is generally considered 'Male' but the definition of masculinity and femininity is different for everyone.  Those are more social constructs than anything. I'm not trying to downplay your problem because I had it before too. YOU have to decide for yourself what a man or a woman is, and then let your own self perception present itself to others (like Jaimey said).

I agree with the premise, however that's called subjectivism.
And that means that if I say I want to consider myself a stone with consciousness dreaming the world, I can pretty much accept I am that.

And that is fine.

My problem is when I try to take into account the others. Because they work in strange ways which are completely different from mine, yet we're all the same: human..
But where does I end and where does You start ?

I mean, my perception of you is what constructs the idea of "You".
Consider my boyfriend, he has very specific patterns of behavior which are in no way unique to him, but the overall perception of him is of a very unique individual, who is unlike any other.

I have reasons to suspect that there has to be a more or less definable characteristic between gendered maleness, which I suspect is different from social-establishment maleness (i.e. the player, womanizer, alpha/beta, etc).


Now, I understand that as AG folks, we tend to have a more complicated point of view on this particular topic, but I also expect AG folks to have a useful insight.

Asking to gendered people hasn't helped anything, and almost always ends in circular arguments :/

Well whatever that definable characteristic is gendered males, I have no idea. It seems like this a question isn't about what is defined as 'man' anymore. I know who I am, you know who you are, but your perception of someone else 'You' doesn't define who they are. I'm just not sure if I know what you are still asking anymore or what you really want to know. I don't really think I can be of much help because we just don't see things the same way.

I don't really know if the Androgyne board is the right place to ask them what they believe 'male' is, because many of them here feel both the male and female sides of themselves and it can be hard to separate the two. Some people do have very distinct, separate parts in the regards, but some don't.

I'm a straight girl, and I want a manly man, so I guess to me, what would make someone a man to me would be someone who is tough and strong but also sensitive. And I guess a woman would be someone who is sensitive but also strong and tough. haha. Just the way I see it, but I also think it's up to each person.

I think it is important for androgynes to consider ideas of maleness and femaleness, even if that is just to identify the influences those ideas have on us and our conception as androgynes.

As for this idea about it being a modern age where anything goes - people have been telling themselves that for the entirety of recorded history, I imagine we aren't that much different to the people before us.

Quote from: Phate on September 03, 2010, 05:05:07 AM
But when you are talking about basic human wants and needs, like the urge to protect their loved ones, stand in the face of a threat to their loved ones, etc, I think everyone who has a loved one would do that, regardless of their sex or gender.

Not to mention that women are often very ferocious in doing these very things, sometimes even more than men when it comes to children.

Hmm..my mental image of the ideal man is someone who quietly does what's needed, who is honest, who is noble, rather knightly in an odd sort of way, who will come to the help of people around him in distress.  He's strong, but not boastful.  Courageous, but not proud, nor will he lie and say he's not afraid.  Very practical in nature.

And...no big surprise...that is my ideal of myself.
And now I'm wondering how androgynous I really am, or if I'm going to figure out my mother had two sons?
Well, that's what I'm here to figure out, now, isn't it?