Quote from: Kristyn on August 28, 2010, 01:08:52 PMIt is going to cost you either way and your best bet is with someone who is experienced with srs.  Whatever you do don't go back to Thailand even if they offer you free airfare and a crate of chili sauce!

I won't! Very good point about the experience, in fact the surgeons over here are even experienced with fixing other surgeons' mishaps.

QuoteJust out of curiosity, what was the original advice the clinic offered that got you in this mess?

Well first Sophie said to go down to a smaller instrument to dilate with, so I bought a toy at an adult shop that was the right size to fit in there and I used that. Until I couldn't anymore. Now, about 6 weeks later, I hear from her saying oh no don't ever downsize beyond the small dilator or it will be extremely difficult to get any width back.

That's when I said it's too late, I did already because that's what I was advised to do and now she plays dumb asking me what's it too late for.  She fails to grasp the concept that there isn't a large enough opening to fit the dilator into, so she's still trying to get me to just relax and slide it in effortlessly.

Well it stinks that I will have to go back to saving up cash again to get some sort of revision done over here. Do I regret choosing Dr Suporn, well no because I did not want to have either the inversion technique or the colon splice. But after this turn of events I would not recommend him to anyone. I don't know what happens next. Even a consultation with Dr Meltzer is a long way off from being feasible.

If you are going to try to work back up to the size to use your regular dilators, maybe this inexpensive set will help.  It's designed for natal women to use in treating vaginismus.  I have a set that I tried to use to regain depth back before I had te colon graft revision.  The smallest one is about the size of a finger.  The next to largest one is about the size of the smallest dilator we use. 



http://www.vaginismus.com/products/dilator_set

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 28, 2010, 01:30:28 PM

Well first Sophie said to go down to a smaller instrument to dilate with, so I bought a toy at an adult shop that was the right size to fit in there and I used that. Until I couldn't anymore. Now, about 6 weeks later, I hear from her saying oh no don't ever downsize beyond the small dilator or it will be extremely difficult to get any width back.

Do you think she misunderstood thinking you were using one of the larger dilators and she meant for you to go to the smallest one?  Or, did she mean for you to go smaller than the smallest dilator?

Quote
That's when I said it's too late, I did already because that's what I was advised to do and now she plays dumb asking me what's it too late for.  She fails to grasp the concept that there isn't a large enough opening to fit the dilator into, so she's still trying to get me to just relax and slide it in effortlessly.

So, even when you were dilating with the small sex toy, your vagina kept wanting to close?  Or, was it the pain that prevented you from dilating that caused it to close?  I'm beginning to wonder if something was accidentally left inside you, i.e. a sponge, clamp, etc.

Quote
Well it stinks that I will have to go back to saving up cash again to get some sort of revision done over here. Do I regret choosing Dr Suporn, well no because I did not want to have either the inversion technique or the colon splice. But after this turn of events I would not recommend him to anyone. I don't know what happens next. Even a consultation with Dr Meltzer is a long way off from being feasible.

A consult with Brassard is only 50 dollars.  I'm not sure what Meltzer would charge.  Why did you not want to have the inversion technique done?

Quote from: glendagladwitch on August 28, 2010, 01:46:12 PM
If you are going to try to work back up to the size to use your regular dilators, maybe this inexpensive set will help.  It's designed for natal women to use in treating vaginismus.  I have a set that I tried to use to regain depth back before I had te colon graft revision.  The smallest one is about the size of a finger.  The next to largest one is about the size of the smallest dilator we use.

Thank you! I like that they come with a handle - that is sure to make dilation much easier than with the set Suporn provides. I wrote and asked if I can purchase just the smallest one (and a handle, naturally!) to save on expenses.

Quote from: Kristyn on August 28, 2010, 01:47:55 PM
Do you think she misunderstood thinking you were using one of the larger dilators and she meant for you to go to the smallest one?  Or, did she mean for you to go smaller than the smallest dilator?

I had been using the medium (32mm) one until it became very difficult and I informed her of that nad she said go ahead and go down to the small (26mm) dilator. I now believe that to have been a big mistake. Once the day came that I was no longer able to insert that, I let her know this fact as well and told her about my having bought the toy, and she pretty much said to use whatever I can.

I took that to mean dilate with any object that would fit. So I think she may have miscommunicated, but obviously I had no way to know what she really meant so the result was catastrophic.

QuoteSo, even when you were dilating with the small sex toy, your vagina kept wanting to close?  Or, was it the pain that prevented you from dilating that caused it to close?  I'm beginning to wonder if something was accidentally left inside you, i.e. a sponge, clamp, etc.

Yes, it continued to contract. I don't remember how much pain I experienced though it was certainly a lot less than I'm going through right now.

I was also dilating in the morning before work and again during lunch break, and was consistently 15 minutes late each time getting to work.    With such a time constraint I felt rushed which certainly didn't help. Usually I would do another session in the evening, so I was keeping up 2-3 sessions per day.

QuoteA consult with Brassard is only 50 dollars.  I'm not sure what Meltzer would charge.  Why did you not want to have the inversion technique done?

Glad to hear about the price of a consultation! I would still have to buy a plane ticket since I am no longer in the Phoenix metro area where Meltzer practices (Brassard is more distant from my present location but if Meltzer's cost is more than the extra distance might be worth it.). I did promise all my Phoenix friends that I would visit them, so actually a consultation with Meltzer might be in order while I'm at it!

I didn't want to have an inversion because I didn't feel right with the idea of penile tissue becoming vaginal wall tissue. In retrospect, I am even more glad now because I've heard that penile inversion neovaginae can prolapse, and I've been assured that skin graft vaginae cannot. Even if it's rare, I'd still have been afraid that it would happen. I've also been told that fistulae are impossible with Suporn's technique.

Well, this evening I did another session of stretching. I managed to get my thumb in almost to its widest point. What's really awesome is that my thumb is about 3/4 of the diameter of the 26mm dilator! At this point it should be possible to get back to being able to dilate again soon....

For the next three hours it felt like my vagina was on fire. The pain is only now subsiding thanks to having maxed out the allowed dosages on my vicodin and tramadol.

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 29, 2010, 01:34:39 AM
Well, this evening I did another session of stretching. I managed to get my thumb in almost to its widest point. What's really awesome is that my thumb is about 3/4 of the diameter of the 26mm dilator! At this point it should be possible to get back to being able to dilate again soon....

For the next three hours it felt like my vagina was on fire. The pain is only now subsiding thanks to having maxed out the allowed dosages on my vicodin and tramadol.

You have to do whatever you can to work past the pain--just don't stop what you are doing.  Please try and seek some professional medical help from a qualified surgeon as quickly as possible.  My thoughts are with you.

I do have to agree with Kristyn that time is of the essence with this. You really need to see someone because it sound to me like you have a persistent infection in the area which needs treating. It may be an antibiotic resistant variety.

Trust me, I had problems from time to time post surgery with what was thought to be an abscess. Suffice it to say it eventually turned out not to be an abscess but a small undisclosed "anomalous" cavity which was presumably missed when my vaginal canal was created and was stopped off by the skin graft. It needed to be sorted out as it regularly filled with... well it wasn't pleasant, and it burst several times causing problems.

So please do get looked at properly as soon as you can. If the swelling can be removed, the tightness may improve.

Also, for anyone trying to choose a surgeon while I do not think it is right to totally discount a surgeon on the basis of one unfortunate incident, I think this should serve as a warning to those seeking to decide that ALL surgeons have their pros and cons. It's very easy to look at Suporn's, or indeed anyone's good results and ignore the fact that they all have the occasional problem. IF that happens to you, there is an argument which says that a surgeon just down the road will be easier to deal with than one in a different country.

Just something to think about for those of you who are looking to make a choice, and possibly a good reason to stay on your own continent.

I think the biggest lesson to pass on to others is that dilation does get painful at certain times, and that backing down dilator size will not cure the pain, only lead to greater issues regaining width. I spoke on this before, where I went through a period where it hurt like hell getting in the number three dilator, it took forever to get it in, and I bled every time. I worked through it, it took several weeks, but now the pain is gone and the bleeding is as well. The biggest mistake a person can make, in my opinion, is to back down sizes in an attempt to avoid pain. What works for me, I dilate with all three sizes every time. I start with the smallest for 10 minutes to keep depth, move to number 2 for 5 minutes to loosen things up a bit for number three, and then move to number three for 10 minutes. This has worked very well for me, and I have not lost any depth since surgery.

I never heard of inversion being more prone to prolapse than skin grafts. It would seem to me that a graft is a graft, and essentially inversion is just another version of a skin graft, just without the additional scaring of harvesting skin from other places. I have never really thought of it as the penile tissue becoming the vaginal wall tissue. It's really just skin, and over time the nature of that skin changes as it adapt to it's new use. I'm curious though how sensation differs between grafts and inversion?

Quote from: katgirl74 on August 29, 2010, 01:06:39 PM
I think the biggest lesson to pass on to others is that dilation does get painful at certain times, and that backing down dilator size will not cure the pain, only lead to greater issues regaining width. I spoke on this before, where I went through a period where it hurt like hell getting in the number three dilator, it took forever to get it in, and I bled every time. I worked through it, it took several weeks, but now the pain is gone and the bleeding is as well. The biggest mistake a person can make, in my opinion, is to back down sizes in an attempt to avoid pain. What works for me, I dilate with all three sizes every time. I start with the smallest for 10 minutes to keep depth, move to number 2 for 5 minutes to loosen things up a bit for number three, and then move to number three for 10 minutes. This has worked very well for me, and I have not lost any depth since surgery.

Nice post.  Since the pain is to be expected, would one know if they will be causing themselves any damage by pushing through that threshold?

Quote
I never heard of inversion being more prone to prolapse than skin grafts. It would seem to me that a graft is a graft, and essentially inversion is just another version of a skin graft, just without the additional scaring of harvesting skin from other places. I have never really thought of it as the penile tissue becoming the vaginal wall tissue. It's really just skin, and over time the nature of that skin changes as it adapt to it's new use. I'm curious though how sensation differs between grafts and inversion?

That's exactly the way it was explained to me by Dr. Brassard.  He said the penile skin is grafted to form the walls of the vagina and the risk of prolapse is next to nil.

The biggest resistance that I experienced was more from the muscles of the pelvic floor. You can really out a good amount of pressure, of course you don't want to put all your strength behind it. At first, dilation is relatively easy to get to depth. As healing occurs, you encounter more resistance, but you have a pretty good idea of what kind of depth you should be getting. So putting enough pressure and using some twisting will help work through resistance. I think one mistake that happens is people let pain prevent them from using bigger dilators or getting smaller dilators all the way to depth. Sometimes, I haev backed off due to pain, then reinserted after relaxing for a minute, then had an easier time working through resistance. One should really concentrate on getting the same depth every time and the same width, and not to back off because of pain or bleeding. You will know the difference between resistance related pain and pain pain. My doctor said the pressure from dilation should take your breath away, and that was definitely true when I had harder times, but I worked through it.

Quote from: katgirl74 on August 29, 2010, 03:48:33 PM
The biggest resistance that I experienced was more from the muscles of the pelvic floor. You can really out a good amount of pressure, of course you don't want to put all your strength behind it. At first, dilation is relatively easy to get to depth. As healing occurs, you encounter more resistance, but you have a pretty good idea of what kind of depth you should be getting. So putting enough pressure and using some twisting will help work through resistance. I think one mistake that happens is people let pain prevent them from using bigger dilators or getting smaller dilators all the way to depth. Sometimes, I haev backed off due to pain, then reinserted after relaxing for a minute, then had an easier time working through resistance. One should really concentrate on getting the same depth every time and the same width, and not to back off because of pain or bleeding. You will know the difference between resistance related pain and pain pain. My doctor said the pressure from dilation should take your breath away, and that was definitely true when I had harder times, but I worked through it.

So, does most of the resistance and pain occur around the pc muscle(pelvic floor) or does that vary as well?

The biggest pain and resistance was from the PC muscles. There is also some resistance in the area where the two grafts meet about 3/4 of the way in, but working through that is not very difficult and is pain free. At this point, I don't have any real pain or discomfort from dilation. The PC muscles have to get used to being dilated and stretched, something they have not been accustomed to.

Quote from: katgirl74 on August 30, 2010, 09:28:44 PM
The biggest pain and resistance was from the PC muscles. There is also some resistance in the area where the two grafts meet about 3/4 of the way in, but working through that is not very difficult and is pain free. At this point, I don't have any real pain or discomfort from dilation. The PC muscles have to get used to being dilated and stretched, something they have not been accustomed to.

Thanks Kat.  So I'm taking that relaxation is definitely the key when it comes to dilating.

Since my last post I've been in so much pain that douching is difficult, and the infection has returned. Today I had my final correspondence with the clinic.

Quote from: SophieDear Julie,

Dilation and retention of vaginal depth is the responsibility of the patient. We give advice and guidance, but you have to do the hard work. Your "predicament" has not been brought about by any advice I have given you, but by nothing other than your own inability or reluctance to face the discomfort of dilation. I have successfully helped about 1000 patients recover from SRS with Dr Suporn, and have more experience with the subject of dilation than any other. There is no advice or guidance that I, nor anyone else, could possibly have given that would have been more comprehensive and appropriate to your need at the time. The failure is not mine, even if you would like to think it is. I am sorry that dilation has not worked for you, but I am pleased now to hear that you are surrounded by competent people who are able to help you resolve your problem.

I would like updates, thank you. and it would be nice to hear when you have finally resolved the problem that you have been having, and let me know what was done to solve it.

Best Wishes

Sophie

All's I could think after reading that is what an idiot.

Quote from: meYeah, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You go ahead just keep
living in your own little world.

I knew a long time ago that something was very wrong. But you wouldn't
listen. I kept you informed about screaming in agony half the day
after attempting to stretch. But no, my problems are my own ---king
fault. And now I'm facing the definite possibility of losing my vagina
completely. Well you know what, just forget about me. You all have
lost a patient.

I'm putting your email address on block. You can forget about ever
receiving any more g-----n updates.

J

(Censored for this board.)

So this is really it. With my financial situation a transgender surgeon is completely out of my reach; if I can get rid of this infection then stretching will be possible again until I land a full time job. If a local doctor can't give me something to hold the ring open then I might have to cope with living without a vagina.

I want to reply to everyone's posts once I'm in a little less pain.

Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 31, 2010, 12:23:16 PM
Since my last post I've been in so much pain that douching is difficult, and the infection has returned. Today I had my final correspondence with the clinic.
All's I could think after reading that is what an idiot.
(Censored for this board.)

So this is really it. With my financial situation a transgender surgeon is completely out of my reach; if I can get rid of this infection then stretching will be possible again until I land a full time job. If a local doctor can't give me something to hold the ring open then I might have to cope with living without a vagina.

I want to reply to everyone's posts once I'm in a little less pain.

Dawk, this posting has brought a tear to my eye.  I really wish I could just squeeze you and make it all go away.  Have you made any attempts at seeing a local doc?  What are you doing about the infection?  Please see someone even it is a local clinic.

Quote from: Kristyn on August 31, 2010, 01:45:44 PM
  What are you doing about the infection?  Please see someone even it is a local clinic.

I was thinking the same thing someone has to see you even if it's a free clinic.

Thank you Kristyn & Jessica. *hugs* I went to an emergency care clinic yesterday (Tuesday) and the doc gave me a whole bunch of antibiotics and some more pain meds. Thank goodness!!!! I think (and hope) this will finally do it.

I told him that I had undergone surgery to create a vaginal opening but I didn't specify what kind of surgeon or tell him I'm trans. I mentioned having to dilate and being unable to. He tried to look inside but it hurt a lot so he said maybe my gyn could examine me under anaesthesia and maybe even dilate me while she's at it. From what he said it seems like they can do that pretty easily.

If my gyn can dilate me a few times then maybe my opening will loosen up enough that I will become able to do it myself again. *excited*

Quote from: Dàwkbua on September 01, 2010, 03:04:03 AM
Thank you Kristyn & Jessica. *hugs* I went to an emergency care clinic yesterday (Tuesday) and the doc gave me a whole bunch of antibiotics and some more pain meds. Thank goodness!!!! I think (and hope) this will finally do it.

I told him that I had undergone surgery to create a vaginal opening but I didn't specify what kind of surgeon or tell him I'm trans. I mentioned having to dilate and being unable to. He tried to look inside but it hurt a lot so he said maybe my gyn could examine me under anaesthesia and maybe even dilate me while she's at it. From what he said it seems like they can do that pretty easily.

If my gyn can dilate me a few times then maybe my opening will loosen up enough that I will become able to do it myself again. *excited*

Dawk, you are brilliant and very, very brave!  I'm both happy and excited for you!  Please do not give up and try and stay positive.  YOU WILL WIN THIS!    Please keep us updated.

Post surgery complications should always be allowed for....my second stage labiaplasty though I'm told has gone very well, I'm now day 2 post-op...

When Dr. M opened me up I had far more internal scar tissue from the original SRS surgery (back 18 years ago), more imbedded than he was expecting... so was down for extra time or so... and my urethral repositioning was trickier to do...
While keeping all the existing nerve, clitoral tissue fully intact....

So I'm really pleased that my gut-instinct to go with a full GA was indulged, though not standard practice here.

And I will have to live with a Catheter now till at least next Mon..... this I wasn't expecting... as usually there out the next day....which it would have been if Toby had done the original SRS just a few months back.

So here I am too... having to be patient and diligent with my aftercare which will be more complex than I'd initially prepared for...but I'm in the US till the 28th so have time for another tweak if need be.

But a statement I like is 'what will be, will be'

And determination to get through no matter what is defo what sets women like us apart from mainstream society....

Though getting through it is never a breeze in the park...

So keep the faith Dawkbua, dig deep and you'll get there.....