This is something that caught my mind:

Even though that I haven't started HRT or anything, I've been able to modify my voice to make it sound girly, I can talk fluently with a feminine and passable voice, I can't sing yet, but I don't think it's a priority... xD

Anyway, there's one thing that bothers me... something that I don't know if other trans girls can do, but  that every other cis girl can...

Shouting while using a feminine voice at the same time.

At least I can't do this, even when I talk with my girl voice, I can't speak loud, let alone shouting wih a female voice.

Can someone do this already? what kind of training would it be required for this?

And please, don't say I'm overthinking it and that this is not what makes a girl, a girl.

I'm asking this because, for me, it does have a lot of value.

In my case yes, JUST! but I would agree that it would probably the most difficult thing to master.

My voice never fully broke and hence luckily for me exists in the small overlap area which does exist between normal male and normal female. I sing contralto, which is a normal low female singing voice.

However when I shout that is definitely when my voice sounds at its most masculine. Although it does not actually trip over into being overtly male I do not like my shouting voice much.

The difficulty is that in order to shout you have to employ the full resonance of your voice box. That means allowing the chords freedom to work in their natural way. Unfortunately that is exactly the opposite of what you would do when you want to make your voice more "girly" which involves taking all the power out of the voice by preventing that same resonance that you use to generate the shout.

So my view is that it is always going to involve a bit of a compromise between maximum decibels and the point at which your voice does trip over into that male zone.

Just my thoughts...

Unfortunatelly for me when I shout Its a full male voice.Ive practiced diffrent ways , nothing works.Someimes even when Im speaking regularly and im nervous about something, my male voice comes out for a split second or so.

I wonder if there could be a way to "Rebuild" or restore the voice to make it sound like it used to before it cracked, in order to achieve all of these things and get a REAL feminine voice without the worry of having to go back to the ugly male voice.

I have it on good authority (from someone who underwent three or four voice surgeries) that it really isn't worth it - it just doesn't do the job.  And I've heard her (she's a good friend), and no, it really doesn't work.  I hear ya, sis.  I, too, hope I can eventually sing as Colleen, but I'm not sure I have the range.  We'll see, though.  I hear that vocal coaching can work wonders, and indeed I've heard transwomen who in every way sound completely female.

i always wanted a female voice.........................................i heard it have some training to achieve it.........using piano................for 1 years............

most girls sound quite masculine when hey shout anyway...i wouldn't worry about it

I try to avoid shouting because I sound like a Marine Corps drill Sergeant when I do

I have however learned to articulate my female voice so people can hear me better 
There is a fine line between articulating and shouting

Quote from: Helena on September 02, 2010, 05:22:17 PM
most girls sound quite masculine when hey shout anyway...i wouldn't worry about it

A female voice that sounds masculine sounds VERY different than ANY male sounding voice.

I'll never agree with the concept that the content of the voice makes any significant difference to what gender you percieve the voice as being.

I can only speak for myself here, but, for me at least. I would probably say that voice to me is the number 1 cue I use in determining someone elses gender. Even an extremely female looking male I have serious trouble getting my brain to register them as female if they sound male, and vice versa.

But the content of what they're saying, inflection, etc, has virtually no influence in my personal gender perception of voice. I don't think it does of most people, cause from as far as I can tell, most people hear a voice and decide almost immediately the gender they think it is, and rarely change from that initial assessment.

But... maybe I'm wrong.

To the original poster, I think it is possible (at least for some), to train your voice to be able to shout and still sound female.

I'd be curious to know why some TS's have so much trouble, some so little, and can vary so widely in their potential. And it doesn't seem to have a huge correlation to how your male voice sounded. I wonder if it's problems in technique or just different physiology. I'm probably more inclined to think the latter.

Don't give up though, it can take time. 

A lot of natal females can't shout effectively anyway. Scream, yes, and sometimes call out in a way that carries well over distance (this one resembles singing more than anything else) but how often do you hear a woman shout? I can't do it - when I try my voice just cracks and nothing comes out. If you never shout, nobody'll think anything of it.

i just don't. i don't have a male voice, but i'm not comfortable with a yelling voice. this makes me think of that one kelly video at 2:31.

I've been told by lots of people that I sound 100% female, this coming from other Transsexuals and Cisgendered folks alike; I'm very proud of what I've achieved and I think that I can speak (no pun intended) from a position of experience here. I also work with the public so I hear the wide variety of male and female voices every day.

It's important to remember that voice, after you find that initial "spot" where it comes from, is something you usually develop over an extended period of time.... I practiced it for 8 months in private before I felt comfortable talking to people and it was another 6 months after that until I feel I reached my full potential. Yes, you can yell with it... it's just another one of those things that we have to re-learn and takes additional time by itself. Also, lets not forget about re-learning how to sneeze, cough and clear your throat! LOL

  "Men speak with their chests, women speak with their heads," is the phrase I remember being most helpful in yelling or speaking with volume. The trick is adding air but not allowing yourself to resonate in your chest. Instead, practice resonating with your mouth and sinuses. For example, place your fingertips on your front teeth and try to get them to vibrate with your voice. Then place your fingers on either side of your nose and try to vibrate your sinuses... It may sound crazy but it worked for me.

  I have to strongly disagree with the notion that the content or inflection of your voice has nothing to do with its passing. It's a simple fact that women phrase things differently and use different words... For example:

  Guy: "Hey, what's up?"   (Pitch going down with each word)

  Girl: "Hey! How are you?" (pitch flowing up and down with each word)

  I know a FTM who's working on his voice.. He sounds male but still uses a more feminine way of saying things... Guys tend to keep it as short as possible, girls generally use more syllables per sentence.

  Women also tend to use more syllables per word... Like,...

   Guy:  "Hi" (monotone)

   Girl: "Hy-ai" (two syllables with slight pitch change with each)

  Or...

   Guy: "I'm" (one syllable)

  Girl: "Eye-eem"  (barely but noticeably 2 syllables)

  I suppose wording and inflection could be considered "finesse" but it will definitely help you pass.

........ Hope this helps :-)


 

Being able to shout in female range just came naturally to me after being able to stay in the female range for long periods of time (i.e. hour long phone conversations) that would be my basic answer....or, a voice coach. I feel it mostly at the top of the throat/head/nasal areas when I do. If you are full time and never go back into the male range those vocal chords/muscles atrophy and it becomes difficult to sound male even if you try. Then those almost inaudible undertones go away and don't give subconscious cues to others. Also, things like coughing, shouting and singing should start to come natural as well.

Something I discovered was if I just keep at the right pitch and completely let go of trying to sound a certain way and let it flow I sounded the best...plenty of sing-songy quality, proper enunciation, tempo, etc...if I got too caught up in trying to sound a certain way, it was always sub-par. So yeah...if you can't figure out how to get it right just yet...just stay in the right range, relax, be natural, and everything including shouting properly should manifest itself in time.

Quote from: JessicaR on September 02, 2010, 10:56:06 PM
  I have to strongly disagree with the notion that the content or inflection of your voice has nothing to do with its passing. It's a simple fact that women phrase things differently and use different words... For example:

I would agree that it's a simple fact that women 'in general' tend to phrase things differently and use different words. Where I disagree is with the idea that it influences passing, I think it DOES have an influence, but I think that influence is confined to personality. "They sound like a masculine woman"/"They sound like a feminine man". That's where I think content and inflection changes perception.

But, in terms of actually thinking of a voice as fundamentally male or female... there is absolutely no content or inflection or manner of speech that I could think of that would make me think a female voice sounds like a male or a male voice sounds like a female unless the voice was already VERY (and I mean EXTREMELY) androgynous.

The acid test for vocal gender is to go on a radio show. If people read you as female without any visual backup then your voice is female. As I work in broadcasting and have appeared on both national and local radio in a non trans capacity it's a good thing mine seems ok.

One further thought as regards the shouting, I do a lot of amateur dramatics and in my previous job used to go out and about giving lectures in village halls etc. On the stage, or when talking to an audience you must learn to project your voice. The thing is if you do it wrong then you will suffer from the same problems as you are describing when shouting. If you do it wrong it's very easy to end up sounding like Lady Bracknell in The Importance of being Ernest "a Handbag?" So one way to learn how to shout might be practise projecting your female voice, as indeed those of us who act and therefore play female parts on stage have had to do.

Quote from: kyril on September 02, 2010, 09:35:47 PM
A lot of natal females can't shout effectively anyway. Scream, yes, and sometimes call out in a way that carries well over distance (this one resembles singing more than anything else) but how often do you hear a woman shout? I can't do it - when I try my voice just cracks and nothing comes out. If you never shout, nobody'll think anything of it.

I totally agree.

I work at a dinning hall, the hall is huge. When we are preparing things we get to shout quite a bit to each other cause we are far away. The women working with me and I sound just the same when shouting and sometimes we can't even hear each other cause men and women shout is really different.

Just reduce power to allow it be higher pitch and accept it that you might not be heard. Although you can get it to be heard, just remember the border.

Learning to scream properly in a female way takes a bit of practice I found. You need to go somewhere where you can do it without attracting attention. In the middle of a park or in a wood well away from other people is a good place to start.

Shouting is also very difficult. Fortunately most ladies don't shout and just make their point another way.

Raising your voice takes a bit of practice too, but try to avoid shouting (or screaming) too much as it affects your voice.

Caroline

Quote from: rejennyrated on September 03, 2010, 03:43:40 AM
The acid test for vocal gender is to go on a radio show. If people read you as female without any visual backup then your voice is female.

LOL! I 'transitioned' many years ago and nobody knew much about "voice work" back then. My natural voice falls squarely between typical male and female frequencies but I learned to control the undertones. By the time anybody figured out "voice work" I had been on radio and television so much (non-trans stuff) that I didn't dare change my voice LOL!

With unsolicited phone calls (if I am feeling mischievous) I deliberately drift my voice in the direction opposite to how the caller has gendered me and see how far  I have to go before they switch genders. Then I go the opposite way

As far as shouting, it just isn't done by most women. Even here in farm country more women have a good whistle to get someone's attention from a distance rather than shouting.

Quote from: mija on September 03, 2010, 03:17:51 AM
Also, things like coughing, shouting and singing should start to come natural as well.

...and, burping!



sorry I just couldn't miss out on this one

g

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 02, 2010, 04:37:44 PM
I have it on good authority (from someone who underwent three or four voice surgeries) that it really isn't worth it - it just doesn't do the job.  And I've heard her (she's a good friend), and no, it really doesn't work.  I hear ya, sis.  I, too, hope I can eventually sing as Colleen, but I'm not sure I have the range.  We'll see, though.  I hear that vocal coaching can work wonders, and indeed I've heard transwomen who in every way sound completely female.

Actually it does work but depends on the procedure and who you go to. I had mine done a few months ago and it sounds 100% natural no matter what way I speak.

It's called a Feminization laryngoplasty and I had mine done by Dr. Thomas in Portland.
http://www.voicedoctor.net/surgery/fem_lar.html

It costs around 7,500 USD and if you are having problems I highly recommend it.