How many others have had certain things about their prior male lives that conflicted too badly with transitioning to continue doing? For me it was martial arts. I miss it a lot but my sifu was an 80-some year old man who was raised in a temple in southern China and hardly understood any English. He was very old school and, needless to say, there is no way he would have understood my transition. Also, the general testosterone filled environment of the kwoon made it very much a 'boy's club' so everyone would likely have been hesitant to work with me if they found out I was trans. It breaks my heart because I was one of my sifu's favorite students. He used to always call me his son, which is something I'd never heard him say to anyone else. He also used to always refer to me as 'pretty' even though I was always in my male persona at classes:3
For a while after I stopped going to class because my transition was starting to become noticeable he would call me a lot to ask where I was and why I was never around anymore. It always crushed me to hear how badly he missed having me as a student. He hasn't called in quite a while now but it still makes me sad whenever I think about it. 

I used to do martial arts. But aside from that, I suppose I didn't give up anything that I liked to be honest. I did lose a job over GD.

Simply, everything. Home, family, friends, home town, everything I had ever known and every cent I had. That's the way things were 37 years ago.

Everything started afresh and rebuilt.

Quote from: Ayaname on September 11, 2010, 04:03:41 PM
How many others have had certain things about their prior male lives that conflicted too badly with transitioning to continue doing? For me it was martial arts. I miss it a lot but my sifu was an 80-some year old man who was raised in a temple in southern China and hardly understood any English. He was very old school and, needless to say, there is no way he would have understood my transition. Also, the general testosterone filled environment of the kwoon made it very much a 'boy's club' so everyone would likely have been hesitant to work with me if they found out I was trans. It breaks my heart because I was one of my sifu's favorite students. He used to always call me his son, which is something I'd never heard him say to anyone else. He also used to always refer to me as 'pretty' even though I was always in my male persona at classes:3
For a while after I stopped going to class because my transition was starting to become noticeable he would call me a lot to ask where I was and why I was never around anymore. It always crushed me to hear how badly he missed having me as a student. He hasn't called in quite a while now but it still makes me sad whenever I think about it. 

I think that you had a very good relationship with your sifu.   While you may not think he'd understand, if you spoke with him and explained to him I bet he would have found a way to understand.     It SOUNDS like he was very fond of you as a person.  I'm sorry you felt the need to remove yourself from that.

I've lost some things that I used to greatly enjoy as well, but for the most part, these days I'm finding that I'm doing things that I've never had the courage to do.   My latest fix is Yoga.   I'm fat and ugly compared to the other folks in my class, but I feel that I'm starting to care about the health of my body now that I'm moving forward in my transition.  I've spent the last 15 years abusing and ignoring my health and now that seems to be changing a bit.

Quote from: Epigania on September 11, 2010, 06:13:01 PM
I think that you had a very good relationship with your sifu.   While you may not think he'd understand, if you spoke with him and explained to him I bet he would have found a way to understand.

My sifu may like me, but he also has no qualms about making fun of anyone that he doesn't understand. He doesn't even spare racial stereotypes while minorities are in the room. I really wish his liking me meant that he'd accept me as a female but I know him well enough to know it'd never happen. He would never let me live it down and would undoubtedly out me to every new student. I suppose it's still just an issue of caring what other people think, but I think it would take an extremely confident person to withstand the abuse of sticking around after transitioning.

Ayaname, I would try telling your sifu about your need to be a woman.  What have you to lose?  You're already dropping out.

I was afraid to come out to a friend who is in his early 80s.  We always meet in a coffee shop and he is very hard of hearing.  I wasn't looking forward to the "I am transgendered" - "What?" - "I AM TRANSGENDERED!" conversation in a public place, but it all went well and he is one of my biggest supporters.

You never know how people will react until you try them.

- Kate

Hi Ayaname

Here is a thread where some of us discuss one or two things that we had to  Give Up.  As Northern Jane basically said:

Quote from: Northern Jane on September 11, 2010, 06:10:19 PMSimply, everything. Home, family, friends, home town, everything I had ever known and every cent I had. That's the way things were 37 years ago.

Everything started afresh and rebuilt.

Except that I had money and it was only 22 years ago.  Yes I  currently swim competitively in Masters swimming (for adults).  So what you need to do as soon as you can is to get back into martial arts, if not with your sifu, then with someone else.  You will enjoy the love and the experience once again of the sport you love with a passion.

Kind regards
Sarah B

In some ways I was lucky (it's debatable). I had absolutely nothing to loose by transitioning. No jobs, careers, reputation, friends, family, I had virtually nothing that I had to risk loosing.

The down side being that I've never really ever had any of those things, so I don't truly know what it is to have them.

For me also - at least some aspects of martial arts. I have been doing some form of martial art since early adulthood. Most recently Aikido. Very touch and contact oriented - hard to hide breasts - pretty tough to explain. I have been changing slowly. But this is not some thing most others are tolerant of. So that has been cut out. Martial arts involving others - out - but many other martial art things to do solo. I always tried to view my interests in martial arts - as being on the path of enlightenment.

Quote from: Northern Jane on September 11, 2010, 06:10:19 PM
Simply, everything. Home, family, friends, home town, everything I had ever known and every cent I had. That's the way things were 37 years ago.

Everything started afresh and rebuilt.

I'm so sorry to hear that your transition was very hard on you. My family and friends are all very accepting and open to my transition. It feels wrong that I get it rather easy compared to how much so many of my trans brother and sisters have to suffer.

I don't think I really had to give up anything. I didn't take any martial arts, I wasn't into anything excessively manly. Anything I gave up, I don't really miss, so nothing really comes to mind.

Ayaname, you still can do martial arts, this time go to a different school but completely en femme.  There are a lot of schools that are female friendly...

That's such a sad story Ayaname I personally think you should tell him your story just feels unfinished even if he can't handle the knowledge or it's too hard for you to continue going not saying goodbye sounds so sad to both of you. 

As for me Umm nothing like that... I swore to myself before hand I'd stop self harming for as long as I'm transitioning and taking HRT if I couldn't have that then the pain and sacrifice of transition isn't worth fighting for. (so far so good )
The other thing I've had to give up is putting off food shopping and favoring carrying huge amounts of grocery shopping home strapped to my back. It's just too heavy for me to carry all that home anymore :/

That's a tough one (for you) Ayaname..... your tutor probably got (felt) intuitively that you had a lot more depth perhaps than his average student.....? And martial arts (once we get past the duffying-up sense) are all about belief systems and mental control....

This is why I tend to take Vladimir Putin far more seriously as a world leader type, than say Blair, Clinton or even Obama'man.....because when you look into him (as a bloke) and see what he's achieved and done..... (the warrior king)... honed mental discipline is obviously key for him...

And he's for sure a long-term strategist, something I can relate too....lol

What did I loose, give up....?

For me it was racing special group motor cars that died for me with my male personae......(I used to follow F1, but really find it all cringingly boring now)...its so last century and an appalling waste of key oil assets....which is DUMB!

however my competitive spirit is still there...which I vent now in tennis and in the past dinghy sailing.... a sport now women in the UK do very well at..... for a wee while I coached kids in sailing a few years back and was amazed at my club how many girls were uber-keen.... and coming through...

Few boyz in fact...?

However a wish I've yet to fulfil is an off-grid, self- sustaing, self-powering own water supply home..... and a great extra on top would be attached stables to ride out on horseback into the twilight in....

(Horses a renewable transport system.....neat.....)

This is one passion I share with my sister and cousin, both equine girlie types and in my sis's case she owns currently three, and breads mules.... her Shire she uses to compete in Jousting...no less....

She's a long-term member of a mediaeval (living) troupe, which she does as a hobby, and tis  how she met her hubby, they rented a castle for their wedding, tres romantic....

Looks like my marriage, for starters.  Just had a very painful conversation with my wife, wherein she just had to let out all her sadness and frustration and pain.  I just sat there and let her unburden herself.  There wasn't anything else I could do.  I tried to say that I was still the same person, to which she said "No.  You're not.  I don't know anything about you anymore - I'm living with a stranger."  She considers this the death of all our hopes and dreams, and all her hopes for the future.  At one point she said "...and what about me?  I'll end up alone.  It seems like you don't even care about me anymore."

She has not seen me dressed, nor does she know my name.  She doesn't want to hear about it.  This conversation was brought about by me letting her know I'll be attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne starting in October.  To which she said "Oh.  It's about that."  I no longer have any illusions about whether we'll be able to stay married - I would basically have to choose between her or transition (being truly me).  Unfortunately, I know which I'll choose.  So... yeah.  Looks like I'll start by giving up my marriage of 31 years (so far).  She even said "31 years of marriage, and you're ready to throw it all away.  And if you think you'll be able to keep your job, and your career, you're dreaming."

Needless to say, I'm all torn up inside right now...

Quote from: michellecaro on September 21, 2010, 07:15:59 PM
Ayaname, you still can do martial arts, this time go to a different school but completely en femme.  There are a lot of schools that are female friendly...

The school I went to was really one of a kind though. I'd explain all of the reason why that is and why I'd never be satisfied anywhere else, but I'd be giving out enough information for anyone to be able to dig up my past if they really wanted to. 

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 21, 2010, 08:37:12 PM
Looks like my marriage, for starters.  Just had a very painful conversation with my wife, wherein she just had to let out all her sadness and frustration and pain.  I just sat there and let her unburden herself.  There wasn't anything else I could do.  I tried to say that I was still the same person, to which she said "No.  You're not.  I don't know anything about you anymore - I'm living with a stranger."  She considers this the death of all our hopes and dreams, and all her hopes for the future.  At one point she said "...and what about me?  I'll end up alone.  It seems like you don't even care about me anymore."

She has not seen me dressed, nor does she know my name.  She doesn't want to hear about it.  This conversation was brought about by me letting her know I'll be attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne starting in October.  To which she said "Oh.  It's about that."  I no longer have any illusions about whether we'll be able to stay married - I would basically have to choose between her or transition (being truly me).  Unfortunately, I know which I'll choose.  So... yeah.  Looks like I'll start by giving up my marriage of 31 years (so far).  She even said "31 years of marriage, and you're ready to throw it all away.  And if you think you'll be able to keep your job, and your career, you're dreaming."

Needless to say, I'm all torn up inside right now...

That's really terrible. I had to part from a girlfriend when I transitioned and I've never stopped feeling guilty about it. I started dating her to begin with because I sort of felt like I owed it to her (long story). I was never really attracted to her yet I stayed with her for a good 5 years despite how much my trans issues made me feel disgusted by it. I finally had to call it quits when I went over a year without being able to bring myself to be intimate with her anymore. It just made me feel too ashamed and disgusted with myself because I wasn't at all interested in playing the male roll in any relationship. It killed me to hear her start screaming and crying uncontrollably when I finally told her that I wanted to go on hormones. I don't think I'll ever stop feeling guilty unless she finds someone she likes better. So far she's not found a single person she's wanted to date since then. It really seems hopeless for her and I can't help but feel responsible.

@ Colleen...

(Gulp)...

There's not really anything I feel I can say... to ease the burden....

But my partner and her family were horrified for sure....when I came out, so to speak, and nope would not go back in the box....

(And to suggest that you don't value all that you've ever made with yer wife – is just her anger and fear speaking)

You're in a really tough position.... ma dear. Devil you do, devil you don't...but trying to move back to a place of family equilibrium will be key...

My compromise was never to be 'female' in our shared home....

So I only became truly en femme, when I gave the house up when I left, and just took enough out to restart myself on my way....but the huge advantage one has of being young is there is less fear about the future as you 'believe' you've got bags of time...

Sadly fate and what's really is store for us doesn't always meet with our expected scripts...

However, your suggestion of a counsellor for you wife, (if you be in Northern Ireland you might get access to this free on the NHS, but with a wait...eek)...would be and excellent place for her to start...

I suspect this will be an issue she will not share with her g/f's.... so in many respects her avenue for release with this might be very limited... and her fear will be very real.

I do hope that somehow you as a family do find a way to resolve this....?

But pain free I doubt it will ever be...

And in my own case too, many days of tears of sorrow flowed followed my leaving my ex.... it took me several years in fact to fully grieve her out of my system... and for the first 18 months or so....my dreams were filled with for ever searching her out.....

(I loved her that much)

Nár lagaí Dia do lámh....

Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 21, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
@ Colleen...

(Gulp)...

I suspect this will be an issue she will not share with her g/f's.... so in many respects her avenue for release with this might be very limited... and her fear will be very real.

Nár lagaí Dia do lámh....

Cruella and Ayaname, thank you for your kind words.  And yes, as Cruella observes, this is not something she can or will share with anyone, and failing her finding a counselor, she feels compelled to keep everything inside, and so she worries about stress-induced illness...  Ah, god, I wish I could help her, but I cannot.  I can't even comfort her, because I am the source of her pain.  She said it would have been kinder if I would have just gone and had an affair.  Or just left her.  And no... I cannot put that genie back in the bottle, I can't un-open the door.  I have to know myself truly.  And everything I do only confirms it more.  This will definitely be the theme of my therapy session tomorrow.

Cruella, I'm not FROM Ireland, nor living there... Ireland is a last name I made up for myself online, and in the event that my family reject me and cause me to change my last name, I think that is the name I would go with.  I'm of Irish extraction, and I rather like the name.  I think there's a famous model with that last name - I could do worse.  Can you please translate that Gaelic phrase for me?

And yes, I know it's her anger and fear speaking, but I fear she will never accept me as Colleen, and I'll have no choice but to leave her.  She even talked about how our kids would no longer have a father, and how that would be for them, and how I'd lose my relationship with them.  Not sure if that would happen, kids can surprise you I'm told, but yes, that's a risk too.  And my siblings, and my parents.  But months ago, when I first came out to myself, I thought about all of that, and made the assumption in the beginning that I would walk this path utterly alone.  Imagine my surprise and delight to find that is not even remotely true.  For instance, my best friend, a gay man I've known for 36 years, is still right there beside me.

Anyway, there's no shortage of tears in this river....

This is about as exhaustive a list as I could come up with:

• Money;
• The ability to have children that share half of my chromosomes;
• One (1) good friend that I hadn't seen all that much lately anyway ... and I'm not convinced that's a completely hopeless case either;
• Certain aspects of male privilege (feeling safe walking alone at night; some physical strength; the extent to which people tend to automatically trust my judgment; etc.)

Yeah ... that's about it. I'm not saying it hasn't been hard. In fact, it still is. But I haven't lost much of anything in the long run.

@ Colleen....

The Gaelic translates to... May God not weaken your hand...or more power to you...

And hold onto this thought.....they might loose the façade of a father....

But they will never loose a loving parent....which is after all what counts most?

And would any well raised, centred child...who's become a productive teen or adult really wish a parent to live a falsehood and be inwardly crushed and miserable for evermore..

Or would that child only want the best outcome for a parent?

I'm sure there is way through this, only because so many have in fact walked this path before you my day...

And as always tomorrow is another opportunity and another day....

I didn't have to give up much to transition.  I'd already lost anything I had to lose due to not transitioning earlier.  (Meaning, I was so stressed out from repressing myself that I made bad decisions and ended up pretty screwed up for a while.  I'm still digging my way out.)