Twice in the last 24 hours I've been addressed unnecessarily with a gendered term (aah, isn't it always unnecessary?), and it's got me pretty irritated.  Last night, I went for some fast food and was addressed as "Miss" not once, not twice, but three times while they were taking my order and money, and then again when I picked up my food.  Then today, I went to the post office with a friend, and one of the employees who knows me started chatting with us, referring to us repeatedly as "ladies".  I didn't want to show how much it annoyed me, because how the hell is the post office employee supposed to know that being called a lady drives me crazy?  I certainly didn't want to come off as rude, but I had trouble controlling myself enough to not grimace.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do when this happens.  It's not that I expect anyone to call me "sir" when I look female-bodied no matter what I'm wearing (always masculine or gender-neutral; I don't have any feminine clothes), but why do they have to use gendered terms at all?  For those of you who are consistently misread as male or female, how do you deal with being addressed with gendered terms from people you don't know well?  If you correct them, how do you do it?  And if you don't, how do you keep yourself from either going crazy?  Thanks in advance.

We have no gender-neutral equivalent in English that would work in the instances where the politeness of "Sir" or "Ma'am" is called for, and desperately need one.  The only alternative is the slightly awkward avoidance of anything to put after your "excuse me", which doesn't help picking out the person who's attention you're trying to get, at least with the gendered versions if there's a bunch of people and you use ma'am, you're usually only going to get the attention of the women. 

It's not "unnecessary" in the service industry, in English, it's generally considered necessary for politeness reasons.  Society has trained us that "Hey, you in the green shirt over there!" or "Your food's ready, chubby!", or anything worse, are *not* what you say to customers when you can avoid it.  For the vast majority of people throughout history, gender has been inoffensively used as a title; wedding invitations have not been addressed to "Four-Eyes and Freckles John and Jane Smith".

Unless you feel very strongly that you're a guy and they call you a girl, or vice versa, and want to say "whoa, I'm a dude!" when they call a group of you "ladies", I wouldn't advise dragging random service employees you're not likely to encounter often into the gender thing.  They have no way of knowing that you're not either, or what to call you even if they did know, better to save it for people you run into often - they'll probably think you as strange and obnoxious as someone they call Mr. or Ms. when taking their fast food order who then insists on being referred to as "Doctor", even by the McDonalds staff.

We do need a standalone gender-neutral thing to add to the "Sir" and "Ma'am" set, like "Sai" or something, as the genderless "Sir" tends to only work with someone who's outranking and intimidating you, and when used otherwise it's assumed the speaker thinks you're a guy.  For people wearing no visible ranks or anything that would enable you to easily use something else, like "Captain".

Sorry, Kareil, if the situation wasn't clear.  It seemed inappropriately formal when I was the only customer and the place was quiet.  Adding "Miss" three times in taking an order ("what would you like, Miss?", "Is that all, Miss?", and "that'll be $X, Miss.") was really overkill.  They asked me my name and called that when my food was ready, but followed up with something like "enjoy your food, Miss".  To get an idea of the situation, I've gone there once a week for the past year and have never been called "Miss" by anyone before.  This was one overly formal, new employee, not a matter of getting the attention of the right person.

I asked this question in the "Androgyne" section because I wanted feedback from those who don't identify as male or female.  I wouldn't be comfortable asking to be called "Mister", but my beef is that I wanted advice on how to deal with the daily irritation of being called something inappropriate when I am well aware that there is no more appropriate term to request, not a justification for why they should do it.  The point is that I don't want to stop random strangers and start an unsolicited conversation about gender, but it would be nice if anyone had some coping strategies for dealing with the thus far unavoidable "nails on chalkboard" feeling.

Hmm...
A poo-stirrer's options list...

-Absurd humor response "I would like a burger and fries, hit."(If you were taken as male you could say "and I'm sorry you missed her.")
-Direct communication. "Please address me as [xe, per, they], because I prefer gender-neutral pronouns."(you'll want to enunciate that very clearly and be able to repeat it precisely, because they won't compute.
-Say " I am Androgynous, so please call me 'they'(which is working it's way to being a singular gender-neutral pronoun)." Be prepared to have the clerk refuse or to be called "it."
-Reply "I'm not female!" angrily.  When the clerk then calls you sir, reply, "I'm not male!" Prepare to be yelled at/abused/insulted/attacked/forced to leave restaurant.

Probably the one that's going to let you eat your lunch predictably and reliably is-distress tolerance. Saying nothing.  But then nothing changes, too.  And that's one more person who doesn't get their preconceptions of binary gender challenged...

Androgynes are really an unrecognized phenomenon so far.   We're a violation of the concept of binary gender...well, queer *is* all about being some sort of sex/gender outlaw...but, well, not wanting to be male or female is a new concept for people...a weird one.
Transpeople, they want to be the other gender than their biological (Well, um, in most cases, unless an intersex condition is involved-or am I incorrect in the terminology? Feel free to whack me over the head liberally...)...and they've been researched, discussed, and exploited on Jerry Springer a goodly bit...but we feel like we're either neither or both???  I'm under the impression that we're not a blip on the cultural map yet.

A little societal consciousness-raising is in order for androgyny, methinks...not that I'm telling you to stick your neck out...more that I'm thinking once I'm much more truly convinced of my own bigenderedness...if it's true, well, I'm not good at organizing, but I am good at raising ruckuses and generally making a public nuisance of myself.

(NO I WILL NOT GO ON A TALK SHOW)
(Again. It was a local one in the 90's. Homosexual youth interview. )

But I'm kind of an activisty sort of person-in my own busybody little way...

EDITED TO ADD:
After further thought...I bet the person at the counter could tell you were getting upset, Ilan, but couldn't understand why, perhaps? therefore was trying to remedy whatever  mystery thing they had done wrong by being super-polite.
Communication is a wonderful thing.*facepalm*

There is no 'correct' way to refer to me as an androgyne, so I'll take whatever is offered and I'll imbibe the intention rather than the word.

I think I'm seeing both sides of this and your true question.  Yes, the fact is that there is no 'other' option.  I wish I could wear mens clothes and be refered to as genderless or male and/or womens clothes and be called she/her/they but the fact is that it just doesn't happen.

As for how to deal with it, I've come to accept that I AM biologically female and if that's how other people see me, who cares?  People whom I know well and who matter to me mostly know that I don't fall neatly into the 'women' category so I try not to let random stranger's assumptions bother me.  I've certainly had experiences where at first I'm not called anything and then the person 'figures it out' and feels the need to prove to me that they know I'm female.  Eh, who cares?   The fact is, I made them think a minute or two.   

I certainly have days where I hate being categorized but as I've gotten older, I seem to have mellowed out and gotten more comfortable in my own skin.  There are certainly still days and times though where I just need to escape and be by myself in order to feel like 'me'.

Good luck

Quote from: LilDoberman on September 27, 2010, 01:54:50 PM
There are certainly still days and times though where I just need to escape and be by myself in order to feel like 'me'.

Of course, but I could be all man or all woman and feel that.

Quote from: Pica Pica on September 27, 2010, 02:05:45 PM
Of course, but I could be all man or all woman and feel that.

Certainly true, and I have days where I want to be alone for completely random reasons, but I do find that some alone time when I'm tired of being confronted with gender is about the only thing that helps.  Escapism works for all sorts of things, I reckon

One of my issues is that I feel I'm unique in the feeling that I'm just exactly like everybody else.

I deal with it by pretending I'm making a difference, I wish to be the role model of the Zaddy of the past, as I'm the idealist kind.

Quote from: Pica Pica on September 27, 2010, 01:44:39 PM
There is no 'correct' way to refer to me as an androgyne, so I'll take whatever is offered and I'll imbibe the intention rather than the word.

Oh, Pica Pica, I wish I had your confidence!  I'm totally working on it though.  (-:

Quote from: LilDoberman on September 27, 2010, 01:54:50 PM
I certainly have days where I hate being categorized but as I've gotten older, I seem to have mellowed out and gotten more comfortable in my own skin.  There are certainly still days and times though where I just need to escape and be by myself in order to feel like 'me'.

It's good to know that others have noticed the same thing, and hopefully it'll bother me less and less as I mature.  Thanks for the advice!

I am clearly gender diverse and I rarely get gendered pronouns sometimes there is a strange pause "May I help you..........there".  One local clothes shop that has clothes for Males & Females has a single change room for Men and Six for Ladies to the rest of the shop you can't tell that there is a difference behind the door the last few times I've tried on clothes (from the ladies department the shop assistant showed me to the ladies so that felt nice.
I have been refered to as miss only once or twice when I've been looking at clothes in a ladies wear store that was followed by an uncomfortable "sorry sir" when they see my face & beard I just say "doesn't worry me".  the are some stores that know me by name so they don't need to use gendered terms when I'm buying by pretty clothes from there store.

I have a while ago had bad experience trying to use the ladies change rooms in a different store but most places are fine.

I agree that it seems so formal but such is customer service unfortunately.  It is quite unnerving when it is used to embarrass someone though by using wrong pronoun intentionally.

When giving name and address details, there are still some staff who have problems with the Ms title and never include it and prefer the Miss or Mrs. 

There are woman who are highly offended to receive mail addressed as Ms and complain to companies when mail is addressed with it, so it's all a bit confusing for everyone I think.