I've said in the past I don't think I'll ever go stealth.  I feel that being trans is a very important part of me and my past, I know that my history is different from the average cis man and I'm not ashamed of that.  That being said, once I'm passing full time, I'm not going to go around saying, Hi, I'm Eli and I'm a transsexual.  I can see what's attractive about being stealth and I am tempted to go that route, just because I get sick of people expecting me to explain the trans thing.

My new flatmate told me her friend had been really surprised when she told her she "lived with a girl" and not two guys like her friend had originally thought.  She told me this as if I'd be really happy to hear someone had "mistaken" me for a guy.  I told her never to refer to me as a girl.  I also thought, how amazing it would be to have someone think I'm a guy and that's all, no big deal, end of story.


The other thing is, I feel like I know way too many people to ever be stealth. I don't intend on moving cities ever, so I think it's just how I gotta do it.

Quote from: elvistears on July 20, 2010, 05:32:17 PM
I've said in the past I don't think I'll ever go stealth.  I feel that being trans is a very important part of me and my past, I know that my history is different from the average cis man and I'm not ashamed of that.  That being said, once I'm passing full time, I'm not going to go around saying, Hi, I'm Eli and I'm a transsexual.  I can see what's attractive about being stealth and I am tempted to go that route, just because I get sick of people expecting me to explain the trans thing.

Me too.  I'm already 20 years old, and I'm not willing to erase those 20 years in order to be completely stealth.  My past has made me who I am today, and while I may be ashamed of/embarrassed by my body, I'm not ashamed of my past or who I am as a person.  (Although at times it can be difficult for me to sort between the two.)

I can completely understand where you're coming from.
I'm going to go as stealth as humanly possible when I start T and I'm at that point where I can pass 95-100% of the time.
It's not that I'm ashamed of being trans. I just want to be seen as a guy, just a regular guy. I don't want people to act any differently around me or for guys to refrain from 'guy talk' because they're constantly aware of my trans status.
Like I said, I'm not ashamed I just don't want to risk people feeling weird around me or awkward situations and the constant questions, being treat differently etc etc.
If I knew 100% none of that would happen then I probably wouldn't be as bothered to say 'Heyy I'm trans everyone!!'

Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on July 20, 2010, 12:41:13 PM
I think part of the reason I treat this whole issue like this, with complete denial, is cause of the pain it causes me to even think of or relate to my body. My body to me is an alien. The only thing that I remotely recognize anymore is that my body is taking on masculine characteristics. I was cool with my chest but now it's getting harder to hide cause I'm getting more pecs and muscle can't be bound. Once I'm post top op I'll relate to it more, once I look more masculine from T I'll relate to it more, and once I"m post bottom op and my junk's sewed up and resembles a micro dick...I'll feel alot better. But right now my body is the enemy. I have a deep internal shame for the wrong parts being there and being helpless to change that. I don't recognize the person in the mirror cause I feel the binder, I feel the packer rubbing against the wrong body parts, I see the difference. I hate it. It's all I can do not to go ape s*** on myself sometimes and destroy the body that betrays me. I won't acknowledge that I wasn't raised male or anything. I don't even say ftm cause to me I never was the F. What I mean by identifying as a cis guy is that I want to identify as a normal man who never had this past cause honestly, I'm ashamed of it. It's not even outside influences saying this. It's the fact that I can't relate to my body at all and I'm ashamed of it. Infuriated.

Anyone relate or remotely understand? Or am I entirely deranged?

I not only understand this, I feel much the same. I need a large cash infusion to even get close, top surgery would do wonders for a start.

Quote from: zombiesarepeacefultrans when I'm not...it's just a birth defect. Why people should be angry by correcting this birth defect and moving on with life?

Hi Zombiesarepeaceful, I feel there are two sides to the coin.
On one hand: do what makes you happy. You come into this world alone and you leave it alone. Don't live your life for other people, too much. 
On the other hand: People fear the unknown. Newmen visibility = less suspicion by cisgen mainsteam people. I'm grateful for every Diago Sanchez, Dhillon Khosla and Lucas Silveira. And what about pre-op transmen who need role models?   
Also if I may deviate from your topic a bit:
perhaps we should not say 'defects'. I suggest we say 'unique birth condition'. Otherwise it may lead to people trying to 'cure' you. What I mean is : years ago, scientists said it may be genetically possible to get rid of the gene that makes people gay. There was a huge outcry. Gay people said, homosexuality may be a deviation from the norm, but it is not a defect and gay people have the right to exist. There was panic in the community.
If transexualism is seen as a 'defect', they will soon try to find a way to discover it in the womb. Perhaps women may abort their trans inclined foetus. Or if it is oneday possible to genetically prevent transexualism it may mean no trans people being born at all. I wonder how you all feel about this. My newman ex used to say he wished he had never been born. 
Moreover USA and UK have laws to protect against discrimination of trans people. In Asia we dont. Add to that, if it is seen as 'defect' you may have horrific things happening to trans citizens in countries that are less accepting. At least my government works to integrate transfolks (it is a cultural thing in my land), but in other countries God knows what will happen.
I'm just saying...
Once women pick up that Transmen are much better in bed than cismen, I'll be tickled pink to see the amount of transmen suddenly appearing out of nowhere.
I think of my transfriends as different and not defective. 

I can see where all you people come from. I intend on moving cities alot throughout my life, cause the area I want to work in comes with traveling alot (I want to be a truck driver). While the shame is something I agree isn't healthy...it's there. And it'll probably be there til I get at least top surgery cause that's what I'm most ashamed of cause I can't take off my shirt this summer or ever like a normal guy and that's what I'm having a hard time hiding right now cause of pec growth on T. As someone said to me before....they noticed that I identify less as queer and more as a normal guy. That's true. While I'm still not sure if I like just guys or just girls or bother (I'm pansexual)...that won't change and I'm not ashamed of who I'm attracted to at all. If I turned out to like only guys I wouldn't care. It's just my body's "queerness" that I hate and cannot stand.

I kind of know what you mean but ultimately I just want to be seen as male regardless of what journey takes me there.

I'm stealth, and i'll always stay stealth. I don't assosciate with any trans groups in my local area on at the clinic i go to. Coming on this website is about as close as i'll ever get to associating with other trans dudes, purely cause i just wanna be seen as a normal guy i dont want the trans label hovering over my head. Never have and never will.

The way I see it is that until me transition is complete, I'm a transwoman.. Once my transition is completed, I will be a woman - without any qualifiers..

I'm not on T or anything yet but I identify myself as male no matter what because saying I'm trans would remind me that I never will be biologically male. I'm 16 so if someone thinks I'm a young male and I say I'm 16 they still see me as male even when I didn't bind they still saw me as male. So I pass very very well.

I think that your wording is a bit off.  I understand what you mean, but at the same time disagree that it is possible for a transman to identify as a cisman.  I think that that is almost implied by being a transman that you would identify as a man and feel as though you should have been a cismale. 

I think its possible to distinctly not identify with the trans part of being trans and feel you are merely a man, but that doesn't make you a "cismale"

a bit scattered... sorry...

Honestly, I've never identified with "trans". A psychologist a long time ago called me transsexual and I remember hating that label. I've always been male .. in my mind, in my mannerisms, in how I act, etc. Technically ... that is, according to the field of psychology, I guess I am transsexual, but I still reject that label. I'm ME and that me is male and always has been. Technically ... that is, according to biology, I guess some people would say I'm either female or intersex. I don't buy those labels either. In fact, I reject most any kind of label that people decide to throw on me (if I decide to put a label on myself, that's my own choice).

I know how you feel about the topic because it's not like you're dissing "trans", you know what I mean? It's like you just don't feel like it works for you. It may work perfectly well for other people and that's cool. I believe that people should be able to identify themselves - not others making the decision for them.

Every time I see this thread, I wonder if any of us can actually choose what we identify as.  How much of identity is really a choice?

I also identify more as a cismale (AKA your average man) than being trans, even though I'm not through with transition. I see myself as a guy with a condition (being trans) and I'm working on correcting it the best I can. I also like to talk to others with my condition for knowledge, support and camaraderie- like any other support system.

I look at it like this... a person may have diabetes and are therefore diabetic, but most don't focus their entire identity on it. Being diabetic is part of them but doesn't define them. That's why I strive to be as stealth as possible. I want to be seen as just another guy. I know not everyone feels this way, this is just how I feel about it for me and what works for me.

Leo, I also am disgusted, uncomfortable and ashamed of my body. Changes are happening that I'm loving but there's still a long way to go. I guess I'm embarrassed about my body just like if a cisman had boobs or no penis. Don't deny he wouldn't be embarrassed or feel his body has betrayed him. I'm glad for the guys who are O.K. with it, but at this point I'm not.

I find it interesting some people think they have to erase their past or their past experiences if they go stealth. For me most of my life lessons, experiences and memories had little to do with gender. They just were. They were things and experiences that would happen to males and females.

The thing with the diabetes analogy is this..

"Identifying" as Cis would be like "identifying" as a "a person who does not have diabetes".

Quote from: Miniar on September 27, 2010, 07:09:28 PMThe thing with the diabetes analogy is this..

"Identifying" as Cis would be like "identifying" as a "a person who does not have diabetes".

Well, if a cismale spent alot of time around transmen then he might identify himselves as cis among the trans. If someone spent alot of time around diabetics and they weren't then they might think of themselves as "the non-diabetic one of the bunch". Sometimes identity shifts compared to who you're around and your company.

Quote from: Radar on September 27, 2010, 07:22:36 PM
Well, if a cismale spent alot of time around transmen then he might identify himselves as cis among the trans. If someone spent alot of time around diabetics and they weren't then they might think of themselves as "the non-diabetic one of the bunch". Sometimes identity shifts compared to who you're around and your company.

"or", you just don't identify your "self" as any one condition and just decide to be "you", warts and all.

I mean, I have long hair, but it's not my identity.
I've got fibromyalgia and probably a couple other problems too, none of those are my identity either.
I'm right handed, tall, a pet owner, a parent, etc, etc, etc,.. none of those are my identity either.

Like that, I am trans, and nothing I do will ever change that I was born with female genitals.
Can't change the past and it will forever colour my present.
So, might as well accept it, like I accept my hair, my height, my various problems, etc, etc, etc..
I'll correct what I can, better what I'm able, and so on..

but I'm not gonna go pretend I don't have diabetes. (to go back to that analogy)

Quote from: Kvall on September 27, 2010, 11:19:43 PM
The explanation I'm seeing repeated here a lot, including in the new replies after the topic was resurrected, is "I'm not a trans man, I'm just a man."

And that's fine. Not every man of trans experience is going to incorporate his transition into his identity.

But those who do are also men. So to say that you are not a trans man because you are a man, or that you are a cis man because you are a man, is f*ked up.

Agreed.

While I don't go around advertising my trans status (I pass 100% of the time) - I don't deny it either. I live in the same city, work the same job, hang out with the same people that I did before beginning HRT - so, by default, a lot of folks know that I am FTM.

This is not saying though that I don't understand guys' needing/wanting to go completely stealth post transition....I get it, I do. However, I don't understand needing to attach "cis" to male identity as if to infer authenticity.

But I say, go ahead, embrace your identity,whether it's man, dude, guy, ftm, f2m, transman, transguy, ->-bleeped-<-boi - regardless of the how you choose to ID, the phrasing doesn't make you any less male. 

I'm a dude. I have been mistaken for a girl innumerable times, so much that I even fooled myself into believing I was one or could be one. I'm a dude, even when wearing a dress, even with ribbons in my hair, even when being called she. I'm a dude with no peen and I don't particularly mind that, though my unusually large chest is disturbing, and so is my enlargened hips.
Maybe I'm a trans dude, but most of all I'm a dude. A teenager, a nerd, one of those black-clad types in stompy boots. A person with AS. A nutjob with a weird outlook and a weird body.
I am me, the dude who chills out in his morningrobe all day (or would, if he had the choice).

For the most part I don't even think about being trans any more.  I'm me.  Though I get enough reminders every day when my kids call me Mom, a coworker she's me, my mother calls me Birthname, etc. 

Yes, I may have grown up in a girl body and was treated and socialized as a girl, but I never was a girl.  I was climbing trees with the neighbor boys, hanging out in the dairy barn down the street with the cows, catching frogs, etc.  As I got older I was acutely aware of the missing bits and was horrified/embarrassed about it.  Teen years sucked.  As an adult I forced myself to be as feminine as I could, but still couldn't do jewelry and makeup and heels and dresses.... Bleh.  But I did marry and have children, no regrets there.

I'm post op everything now, no longer have issues with my bits.  I'm a dude with a very small penis.  And I'm not alone.  The only reminder is the one remaining slow-to-heal area which has shrunk by >50% this last week, so almost there!  Can't wait to not have to be reminded that I had surgery down there.


Jay