As someone who has been part of twenty or more Gay Pride parades I have seen many drag queens live & very close up, and still after these years I find it ( somewhat ) offensive. Please do not get me wrong, some of the gurls are lovely people, but seeing them often makes me cringe. But at other times I wish that I was better at makeup and would like to try it once. 

Quote from: kyril on September 25, 2010, 10:35:16 AM
But that's not the message. Drag queens are making fun of performative femininity, with the message that "this stuff doesn't make me a woman." They're claiming the freedom to wear women's things, act feminine, and still be real men. They're making fun of the fact that because they're gay or effeminate, society thinks they must be women, or woman-like.

Drag queens, by and large, are well aware that they're not trans women and they don't represent trans women. Their audience may be more confused on the matter.

Drag kings...are a different sort of thing. Too many of them seem to take themselves far too seriously. I don't find them offensive, but I do tend to find them terribly boring, and I have yet to figure out what their message is, if they have one.

I had to laugh - my roommate is a drag king, and gave that exact same spiel (about masculinity) when I voiced my concerns about drag.

Overall I just... I don't know how seriously I can take that interpretation of drag performances. What drag performances I've seen - which I'll admit upfront have been very limited - the only entertainment value for the audience is the "ha, it's a man acing feminine / woman acting masculine." The overall message, if any, seemed to be that people exhibiting a significantly different gender role than that assigned to their birth sex is inherently funny/farcical. Hell, name any stereotype that's out there about trans folk and you can find it being mirrored and reinforced in drag performances. Again, my experience is limited, but... I can't help but see drag as a mockery of any and all gender variance.

It would be interesting to do some sort of survey of the audiences of drag shows to find out more about what the general audience thinks of it, rather than just speculating. Hm...

I've been to a few drag shows including Ladyboys and classy ones on Manchester's Canal Street and while I can enjoy the perfomance and admire the work that goes into their acts I hate the rubbishy acts with lots of sexual overtones.

Priscilla Queen of the Desert sshows how classy and enjoyable a drag act can be.

Can someone put up a survey thing to ask who has seen Priscilla and enjoyed or didn't?

these is nothing wrong with this act is there?  well apart from Terence Stamp's acting.  makes me wonder on what he based his performance?

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 25, 2010, 03:49:22 PM
Would the NAACP have a "black-face" minstrel show scheduled for its fund-raising banquet?

That's exactly my thought on all this.
It may be intended as "good clean fun" but I find it demeaning.

Quote from: Renate on September 26, 2010, 04:35:02 PM

Quote from: Julie MarieWould the NAACP have a "black-face" minstrel show scheduled for its fund-raising banquet?

That's exactly my thought on all this.
It may be intended as "good clean fun" but I find it demeaning.

Yeah. The parallels are pretty strong, but I felt a little squeamish about directly comparing the two... and then I saw this: http://kenyonfarrow.com/2007/05/23/blackface-drag-queen-feels-regret-almost/
I... yeah. I don't know what else there is to say, really.

Oh my God, Renate. That is just awful. The misogyny and racism on display just blows me away.

I enjoy watching them (as I have a number of friends who perform) but I'm also critical of some of the performances at the same time. To start, you have to approach this with an understanding that a drag show is a form of visual arts or acting. In that context you understand that is similar to watching a play at a theater or putting on a DVD that you are viewing fiction. This can be good in the sense that it does break down gender barriers. Men can dress up as women and visa versa and nobody cares. These are often performed in venues that would make it safer for someone questioning their gender identity to experiment at.

Where I have an issue with it is when the performers start causing misinformation about ->-bleeped-<-. Few know what transgender means and a number of them call themselves transsexuals but generally don't meet the medical definintions of TSism. The misinformation can cause an overall poor understanding of what ->-bleeped-<- really is. It blurs all forms of it into one where the general public believes that a man who throws on a wig and shows up to a gay bar acting ridiculous is the same as someone who lives full time in the opposite sex than birth and goes through the operations. They think that those two examples and everything in between equates what one would call a "->-bleeped-<-."

I've even had to re-educate myself after learning a lot of misinformation from them. For instance, this one bar I know used to hold a show that they called a "transgender review." This was in addition to other drag shows they had. The difference was that the girls in this show had breast implants and lived full time as girls. A lot of people erroneously believe that the only difference between a drag queen and a transsexual is that the latter has boob implants whereas the former doesn't. I happened to know these girls quite well and they would more accurately be termed "she-males" than anything else. An offensive term, yes, but one heavily used and adopted by the pornography and prostitution "professions" which every single one of these performers were well involved with. None of them had or have any intention of SRS because they enjoy the parts they have (because they use them for sex and money).

I have nothing against how people choose to live their lives but you can see how this creates a lot of confusion and misinformation. An actual transsexual is simply one gender born in the wrong gender body. Whether or not they take hormones or have any surgeries at all is irrelevant. Unfortunately these performers have confused people into believing that the differences in the terms are based on the surgeries. While this is often related, you can see how it isn't always the case. Anybody can get boobs but that doesn't make them a TS. Plus, if someone really is a woman trapped in a man's body then why are they advertising the size of their penises, using them to penetrate other people, and revolve their entire lives around gay bars and sex for money? Most of the people here on this board for instance who are MTFs simply want to live their lives as women as best as possible similar to how any genetic woman may live her life.

So again, drag can be funny and harmless entertainment as long as you understand that it is acting and not to be taken seriously and at the same time the performers themselves are not spreading misinformation.

I dislike Drag shows,

But it may be from a different perspective.  I came out to my parents when I was about 13, about the time that dinosaurs ruled the world . My Mum and Dad could not accept it. OK. But Mum made me watch every drag show on the "Palladium" Saturday night show. Sorry I don't mean to be obscure but there was weekly televison show in the UK, 'Saturday Night at The Pallidium ( I think ' A drag artist 'Danny La Rue" often featured, each time he came on I was forced to watch in order to cure me. It didn't.

I have no problem in accepting actors skills, and healthy humour. But to be told that you are never going to look that good, when looking at a guy in a dress, I found upsetting. In many ways it gave me strength; I realised I would never be, and could not be a guy in a dress. Just took a long time to realise it.

I've never seen a Drag King. I think that would be quite distasteful.  I have several FtM friends, here and in Adelaide, and I  thing a parody of an FtM is more distasteful than MtF. Just my opinions and please do not get offended

Cindy

I find drag to be a tad odd although I cant say ive ever seen a drag show.  I dont feel comfortable displaying my thoughts either way because ultimately i dont feel i really have any right to judge

Hmm, after reading some of the other replies, I feel the need to say that I think I got lucky with the DQ's I worked with.. Some of the guys I worked with saw in me what I was avoiding, and several times suggested I go to the local trans support group..  Foolishly, I didn't, but they certainly made the suggestion..

I was at the Richmond Virginia Gay Pride festival this past Saturday. Yes , there were the usual Gay drag performers on stage and sometimes in the audience . The issue I have is the foul jokes about West Virginia , trailer parks and just foul bad jokes were innapperoperate and ill timed at a so called  "Family " event . I was attired in an outfit that I had been collecting pieces for for thje last six months.

Igo back to a post from this site I saw and commented upon :The poster said , putyou're best foot forward . Every time I go out , I am respectful as to my appearence as I dress full time as part of my therapy. I want to send a message to the non -trans population that we are indeed "Well attired people  ".

ellen

I'm more and more frustrated with the responses. How is drag a parody of FtMs and MtFs?

Quote from: Nygeel on September 27, 2010, 10:01:11 AM
I'm more and more frustrated with the responses. How is drag a parody of FtMs and MtFs?

I don't think it is, but everyone has a different opinion - and it seems to be related to peoples experiences..

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 27, 2010, 10:27:38 AM
I don't think it is, but everyone has a different opinion - and it seems to be related to peoples experiences..

But...it's just a lot of assumptions and accusations. Like that the drag performers at pride were gay. How do you know they're gay? Why can't a person who identifies as trans use and be overall okay with the genitals they were assigned at birth? Why do cisgender women, and cisgender ideals have to be what trans women strive for?

It doesn't matter to me in the least the sexual orientation, gender identity or chromosomes of the drag performer.
I find the parody offensive.

Would you find a website that posts photos of people and you are supposed to guess if they are XX or XY offensive?

It seems to me the whole point of drag queens to be to make the audience say,
"Wow, I didn't know a guy could look that much like a woman."

I don't think encouraging people to think in this way is a good thing.

In any case, it doesn't seem like anybody's opinions here is going to change.

By definition Drag is a parody of either MtFs or FtMs but its the verbal content that determines if it's nice or not for me.
Considering what I say in my other posts this may seem strange but if the drag person is doing a serious takeoff of a woman or man then it's acceptable...when they start with all the sex/sex organs/toilet innuendos than I prefer to stop watching...and as lots of drag acts are determined or unable to rise above toilet humour then I wouldn't want to see them anyway.
The advertising or blurb accompanying names of dragsters give an indication of what their show will be like.

Saturday Night at the Palladium?   We got it on Sunday here. 

I don't have a problem with it. Transgender and drag are two different areas.

Gennee

Quote from: Dee_pntx on September 27, 2010, 02:17:27 PMI'll be damned if Ru Paul, a gay MAN, is going to be a spokesperson for me or represent my position in the world.

That, to me, is one of the biggest problems with drag. I remember seeing an article where some gay newspaper asked RuPaul if it was okay to use the world "->-bleeped-<-" and he said yes. Excuse me? Sir, you don't get to speak for trans women everywhere. Shame on him for not pointing that out and shame on the paper for asking him.

They are different things. If everybody recognized that fact it wouldn't be so problematic.

I think that drag is a bit... weird, and it's what I thought that all trans stuff was when I was younger (trans = drag). Yes, I know, it's awful. After I learnt that TS people existed, I thought that they were only MTF.

I guess that I just don't get drag.

In Sweden, we had a drag group (After Dark) who were in the Eurovision Song Contest. The song was called La Dolce Vita, but I'm too lazy to link it, if anyone wants to hear it they can google or something.

Depends on the show and the artist.

What I don't like is the drag queen sings in playback type of performance as it's boring unless they do very funny things there.
A drag queen doing just a typical revue thing, but well done, is okay but gets boring over time.
I like it when they do funny sketches, not making fun of women, but of gender stereotypes or of anything unrelated to gender stuff.
I also like it when they parodize drag queens; Divine's styling is an example of this.
What often works very well is when the Drag Queen is just the moderator of a show with various artists and bands.
I've never seen any make fun of transsexuals, if they did, I'd hate it.
I've almost never seen any Drag Kings and those I've seen were extremely boring apart from the Drag King show excerpt in "Venus Boyz".

The problem is, most Drag Queen shows I've ever seen were just boring playback singing.

Mary & Gordy are (were?) two very good and hilarious Drag Queen artists in Germany in the 80ies, one played diva roles and the other one funny roles, they were often on TV. When I watched this, I often thought I'd like to do that too when I'm adult. But my parents were kinda confused when I said that.