When I'm with my friends, I've noticed that I'm really violent. Mainly when I'm trying to prove my masculinity to myself, I'll start shoving my friends into things (for example, if I'm at school, I'll shove them into the lockers, into other people, etc.), hitting them on the arms, and throwing things at them.

Most of my friends don't mind. The ones that are closest to me don't care because they're used to it, I guess - then again, I'm a lot less rough towards the people that I actually care about. I mean, a few of my friends have actually gotten bruises where I've hit them.

I really try not to do those things to the people I hang out with, but I can't help it. Especially when I feel my masculinity is threatened or I begin to doubt it, I want to prove it to myself that I'm masculine.

I definitely need to stop hurting my friends, but it just kind of happens.

I also do this a lot whenever I have one of those "I'm such a freak" feelings.

Like all of my other posts, this is just me rambling about my mostly trans-related problems. So, uh, yeah. I should probably work on being less hard on myself and violent towards others. It won't get me anywhere unless I become a wrestler.

My reaction to somebody questioning my masculinity is to hit them, I can't help myself. Not properly full on punching them in the face sort of hitting them...just enough to exert that I could probably kick their ass if I felt like it.

Quote from: Jeatyn on September 27, 2010, 07:18:16 PM
My reaction to somebody questioning my masculinity is to hit them, I can't help myself. Not properly full on punching them in the face sort of hitting them...just enough to exert that I could probably kick their ass if I felt like it.

Ahaha. That's how I am.

This is very interesting because I've personally always been on the rough side, so naturally around other guys I could show this side of me because everyone says "it's what boys do". I try to hold back on it now because I didn't realize how much I could actually hurt my buddies. Whenever people question my masculinity, though, I don't really feel any violent urges. I'll just spit some sarcastic retort and I'm done. I guess I don't always feel the need to prove my masculinity to others because I know for sure who I am? Hmm.

I'm the exact opposite. If somebody questions my being a guy or I'm in a room filled with alpha male types I tend to get really flamboyant.

I would totally engage in "hyper-masculine" behavior whenever my masculinity was questioned pre-transition. At some point though (been on T about a year now), I quit caring about how masculine others thought I was or wasn't.

this is something that i can make sense of, but not something that i can relate to. 

i've never been a violent person myself, and since i don't consider myself very masculine, i don't find the need to defend my masculinity.  i'm quite feminine, and i'm alright with that.  not girly, just...not MANly. 

have you seen mulan?  when she's dressed up like a soldier of the chinese army and she's talking to the guy about manly urges and needing to hit something and cook outdoors...  yeah, i can't really catch that wavelength.  (don't get me wrong, i love barbeque.) 

i think it's good to identify and question this issue.  for me personaly, seeing something like that happen would feel really awkward.  i get that it's sort of an instinctive, caveman, animal thing: you feel threatened, you pound your chest or pound the guy next to you who's looking at you funny, but i can't exactly say that i condone the behavior.

definitely something worth having a little inward-reflection time over, and certainly good for discussion.

I was like that in middle and highschool, but after I got to college I mellowed out a lot. I still get unreasonably upset when people try to force femininity on me (in the vein of "but you're a girl") but I don't hit people as much anymore. I do beat the stuffing out of my mattress sometimes after a rough day, but that's another story.

Men hitting each other can really be annoying, I don't think I could be friends with somebody who treats others like that. Of course there is a difference between punching and a friendly knock on each others shoulders or arm. Do you really need to uphold a tough image of yourself among others? You are not any less of a man if you have some feminine traits, also violence isn't masculine at all in my opinion.
I agree with Kvall previous comment.

When I'm with bros, we don't touch each other unless we're playing football or something.
When I'm with chicks, I notice they tend to be pretty violent. They hit me and they tackle each other a lot.

From what I've observed, it's a more feminine thing to knock each other around. I don't say anything to some of my pre-T friends, but when you hit me, my initial response is wanting to clock you in the face.

I think it's more masculine to not hit anyone, don't put on bravado. It's easily seen through, and it could get you into serious business if you hit the wrong person. So, if you're  a guy past the age of twelve, it's something you need to keep in check if you want to be perceived as genuinely manly.

I've been around groups of guys with dramatically different touch policies, but in none of them was hitting friends normal acceptable behaviour. Groups of gay guys can be really touchy and cuddly with each other, but there's no violence. Most straight guys don't touch much at all. In the military or on sports teams or in really close-knit groups of friends, there's a certain level of bonding that makes touch OK, especially when drinking - pats or embraces on the back or the shoulder, friendly fake-punches for pretend-insults, and playfighting/wrestling. But if you hit another guy in anger or with the intent to prove something, you'd better be ready for a real fight...and that's some serious business, especially when a friend is involved.

Masculinity isn't just raw strength. Masculinity is strength coupled with loyalty and restraint. Hitting people with the expectation that there won't be any repercussions...that's the prerogative of women (and even that is unfortunate, as anyone who like me has witnessed their dad being abused by a woman can attest).

Quote from: kyril on September 28, 2010, 10:47:37 PM
Hitting people with the expectation that there won't be any repercussions...that's the prerogative of women (and even that is unfortunate, as anyone who like me has witnessed their dad being abused by a woman can attest).

Sorry that happened...and women shouldn't be able to get away with it either. Nobody should hit their domestic partner, and it's probably a bad idea to swat your kids, too.
just my 2, A/G cents

Quote from: rite_of_inversion on September 28, 2010, 11:00:43 PM
and it's probably a bad idea to swat your kids, too.
just my 2, A/G cents

As a worker in retail, often trapped in a confined space with many a shrieking child, I can't completely agree with this... But I digress.

Around my friends if we're rough housing it's basically all good fun til one of us gets hurt. But with my ex if he just said something to set me off or I was just messing around I would punch him in the arm and with me not knowing my own strength well he dreaded it cause I have broght him to tears along with some good bruises. And he learned the hard way not to rough house with me cause he moved wrong once while I was tryin to get him in the guts and missed when he moved and lets just say he needed an ice pack for a few days..didn't mean to bt yeeea still ouch.

I get this entirely, I'm not an aggressive person usually but when I'm out with my trans group I tend to be rough with the guys. For me it's not so much to prove my masculinity as it is just trying to play around. I don't really have any guy friends other than that so when I get out with them for a couple hours each week it just kinda happens. If your friends aren't upset I wouldn't worry too much though the bruising people would make me kinda watch myself but... that's just myself. Everyone is different.

Occasionally I like playing rough, but not for the purposes of proving my masculinity. I just like to play rough.
I'm not at all a touchy person, so really I only play rough with my significant other. The guy I'm with now, even when we weren't dating we acted as each others punching bags. When we were dating a few years ago, he was even accused of abusing me. It was obviously a misunderstanding. Neither of us ever abused each other.

Quote from: DaddySplicer on September 28, 2010, 10:31:15 PMI think it's more masculine to not hit anyone, don't put on bravado. It's easily seen through, and it could get you into serious business if you hit the wrong person.

I agree with this.

I enjoy playfully hitting and punching guys I'm friends with when I know they are OK with it.  I also don't mind fighting back when a guy threatens me (or someone I'm with).  But I don't think of it as masculine.  Violence is really something I'd rather not stoop to, except in jest, but I have to protect myself.  And anyone I care about who might need protecting.

I'm non-violent and non-physical.  I don't want you touching me unless I know you very well or are family.  Consequently, I rarely touch other people.


Jay

Quote from: kyril on September 28, 2010, 10:47:37 PM
Masculinity isn't just raw strength. Masculinity is strength coupled with loyalty and restraint. Hitting people with the expectation that there won't be any repercussions...that's the prerogative of women

I agree.  Play fighting and rough housing and fake, joking punches are different.  Hitting someone because you're upset or to prove a point...  That's something else. 

I actually had a friend with this problem a few years ago.  She would constantly hit everyone, sometimes in a joking manner, sometimes because we'd said something that ticked her off.  She was strong too, and would leave bruises, but nobody had the guts to say anything about it.  I finally had to talk with her about it because she was hurting my friends, and once she realized what she was doing she stopped immediately.  It brought her down because she was dealing with her own things, but it was something that had to be addressed.

I'm like Jay, too.  I don't like touching or being touched (unless you're a close friend), and if someone calls my masculinity into question I just shrug it off or laugh, because what do they know?  I guess I'm weird though, because I also never felt the call of the "dare," and it didn't matter whether you double dog or triple dog dared me to do something.  I didn't care because it meant nothing to me.