So I'm like really afraid of general anesthesia and was wondering if anyone heard of someone not needing to get top surgery because of getting T and working out REALLY hard?

I know that if there are those people out there, they would be like less then 1% of transguys.  But I'm an eternal optimist. 

I guess I should tell you a little about my chest.  Up until 2008 I never really needed to bind with a binder, all I needed to wear was a work out tank top that had a sports bra in it.   That made me totally flat.  Then I went on a very low dose of testosterone cream for women for a seperate medical condition.  FYI I didn't tell my doc I was trans and that's why it was such a small dose. When I was on that my chest shrunk so much I didn't need to wear anything underneath a heavier T-shirt or a button shirt.  But if the shirt was flimsy or tight I had to wear a guys tank top underneath.

Anyway now I'm off the T cream  and my chest has gotten bigger.  It's in between what it was on the T cream and what it was originally.  I have also put on a little weight after getting off the cream and I'm also on Depo Provera birth control shot.  I know Depo is full of female hormones but since I'm a gay guy I just want to be safe.  Even if I'm not gonna use that hole. 

I do remember seeing someone on ftmvanity who posted pics before and after T and they seemed to go from maybe a B cup to almost 100% flat.  It seemed like they wouldn't need to wear anything under their shirts at all, BUT if they took off their shirts at the beach it would look kinda off. 

So have you guys ever heard of someone not needing chest surgery?  And if I could get totally flat would I be stuck like that guy from ftmvanity and never really able to take my shirt off in public?

Sorry for the long post I'm just REALLY afraid of surgery.   

T and working out won't get rid of the breast tissue, which is why people get top surgery. That's my understanding, I could be off.

Quote from: Meepit on October 08, 2010, 01:23:27 PM
T and working out won't get rid of the breast tissue, which is why people get top surgery. That's my understanding, I could be off.

Is breast tissue different then fat?  Sorry if that's a really stupid question.   

Yep, it's different than fat. This is how complicated a boob is :



Even some men have boobs and have to get surgery for it so it's not always a matter of T. If you worked out as well, it affects the pec muscle, not the breast so in some cases you could be making your boobs bigger by working out. T does tend to get rid of some of the fat around there though as well as causing some of the breast tissue to break down (or something ), hence why some guys are able to go down a cup size after T. But you won't be able to get rid of it fully in most cases. I've never known anyone to be able to do that.

Quote from: Meepit on October 08, 2010, 01:32:59 PM
Yep, it's different than fat. This is how complicated a boob is :



Even some men have boobs and have to get surgery for it so it's not always a matter of T. If you worked out as well, it affects the pec muscle, not the breast so in some cases you could be making your boobs bigger by working out. T does tend to get rid of some of the fat around there though as well as causing some of the breast tissue to break down (or something ), hence why some guys are able to go down a cup size after T. But you won't be able to get rid of it fully in most cases. I've never known anyone to be able to do that.

Ooooh OK. Now I see. Thanks man. 

Do you know how come a bunch of female body builders have total guy chests?  Is it just because they're on such a high, dose of T all their tissue breaks down?

What do you mean by "total guy chest" sorry I don't look at too many female bodybuilders let alone naked ones .

Quote from: Tyler90210 on October 08, 2010, 01:36:54 PM
Ooooh OK. Now I see. Thanks man. 

Do you know how come a bunch of female body builders have total guy chests?  Is it just because they're on such a high, dose of T all their tissue breaks down?

To my understanding this has to do in-part to the very low body fat % they must achieve to get that lean, cut look for competition. It's intense. They also don't have a lot of water retention, which makes them appear so hard and chiseled. Of course pec development helps, but that's a given. A lot of them look totally different off season though.

I am being vague and might be wrong though. Hopefully someone with more experience can correct me.

EDIT: Jet gave a great answer for you to chew on, but if you want to know more about working out and moobage I dug up this resource for you. Click here

Quote from: Meepit on October 08, 2010, 01:40:20 PM
What do you mean by "total guy chest" sorry I don't look at too many female bodybuilders let alone naked ones .

LMAO I don't look at them naked either!    I've just seen some documentaries on them on TV and when they're wearing their bikini tops for their competitions it's pretty obvious that they don't need them at all.  They're chests don't seem to have any discernible breast, at least to me they don't.  It's not every female body builder but it seems like that's the norm with them.  Unless they get implants. 

I'll see if I can find some pics to post.

Quote from: Nick on October 08, 2010, 01:42:17 PM
@Meepit: Example here

Ahh I see what you mean. But you can tell they still look breast-like well at least to me. Top surgery gives a more male-look and contour (at least that's the goal of DI). I guess it's up to you what your ideal chest will look like. If what the female bodybuilders have is what you're after, then go for it though it seems rather taxing on the body.

I'm not sure what my chest size was before t, we'll just say "small" lol but after being on T the size got smaller and smaller. To the point where if i had a shirt on you couldn't really tell a difference between me binding and not binding. The problem is that bio females usually have larger nipples and different placement of the nipples which would make the chest not look very male. If you worked out and were able to really build your pec muscles it might look ok but it still wouldnt look like a natural male chest structure. Trust me man! I very nervous about surgery, i had never had any surgery or any serious injuries or anything. But my chest surgery with Dr garramone was so easy, i couldnt believe it. It was nothing of what i expected. It seemed like I was in and out of the surgery center in no time. Honestly it was so worth it!

Found a few examples :

http://www.harleytimbs.com/denise/denise8n.jpg

http://www.hulsestrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/female-bodybuilder.gif

http://img242.imageshack.us/i/johanna5103pd8.jpg/

Quote from: jet3 on October 08, 2010, 01:48:38 PM
I'm not sure what my chest size was before t, we'll just say "small" lol but after being on T the size got smaller and smaller. To the point where if i had a shirt on you couldn't really tell a difference between me binding and not binding. The problem is that bio females usually have larger nipples and different placement of the nipples which would make the chest not look very male. If you worked out and were able to really build your pec muscles it might look ok but it still wouldnt look like a natural male chest structure. Trust me man! I very nervous about surgery, i had never had any surgery or any serious injuries or anything. But my chest surgery with Dr garramone was so easy, i couldnt believe it. It was nothing of what i expected. It seemed like I was in and out of the surgery center in no time. Honestly it was so worth it!

Cool, thanks man.  I hear what you are saying about the nipples though.  Mine are kinda big.  I wouldn't say big for a "girl" but def. big for a guy.    Btw I never really noticed that men and women have different nipple placement.  I'm gay so I don't look at a lot of girls shirt less, but how is the placement different?

I'll have to check Dr garramone out?  Where are they located?  Did you end up going with peri for your surgery?

Body building for females does cut down a lot on the size/fullness of the breast because fat tissue helps create the full look. However it doesn't create a completely male chest, it just gives the boobs a more deflated/flat look. So while it will cut down on the size, it certainly won't look right as far as a male chest goes. Huge pectoral muscles + flat boobage = strange looking chest, especially if you're going for a male looking chest.

Quote from: Osiris on October 08, 2010, 02:00:05 PM
Body building for females does cut down a lot on the size/fullness of the breast because fat tissue helps create the full look. However it doesn't create a completely male chest, it just gives the boobs a more deflated/flat look. So while it will cut down on the size, it certainly won't look right as far as a male chest goes. Huge pectoral muscles + flat boobage = strange looking chest, especially if you're going for a male looking chest.

This is true.  Also, when female bodybuilders are not in competition mode their body returns to a more feminine look.  The pics from competition is totally extreme to how they generally look in 'off peak performance' times, sometimes they are unrecognizable as the same person.

Indeed Hermione. Body builders need to have their total body fat percentage down to around 3% to 8% for competitions. That's a tough thing to do full time considering that normal percentages are for men between 8 and 22 and for women 14 to 25. So usually they work the fat off just before a competition.

@OC. I was deathly afraid of general anasthesia. I repeatedly asked if I could be kept awake. Just as I was going under, I started having a panic attack. Didn't last long against the drugs, obviously, but I was in the same boat as you. I did NOT want general anasthesia. For weeks afterward, I was paranoid about developping clots, even though that concern is only a few days after surgery.

Long story short, I freaked out on everybody, and nearly four months later, I'm still here to be embarrassed about it. It really isn't that bad. It's just scary.

Quote from: DaddySplicer on October 08, 2010, 06:54:05 PMLong story short, I freaked out on everybody, and nearly four months later, I'm still here to be embarrassed about it. It really isn't that bad. It's just scary.

Aw, Daddy, don't be embarrassed; we all have hangups, and it's totally normal (and sensible) to be worried about general anesthesia.

Back to the thread...I haven't yet met anyone IRL who didn't need top surgery of some kind, however minimal. That is, the guys I know who haven't had it yet are obviously not "passable" without surgery unless they bind (and some not even then).

@Tyler90210 hey man, from what i've understood and noticed female nipple are usually more centered, whereas males nipples are more on the lower outside of the pec muslce. Dr Garramone is in Sunrise, FL. He is an awesome surgeon and his staff is amazing! I had DI, my scars are just light and pretty thin. I'm almost 4 months post-op. im hoping by a year post-op they will be pretty much invisible.

Quote from: Kvall on October 08, 2010, 06:38:51 PM
If your chest size has gone up on Depo-Provera, you're probably going to have some loose skin left over even if your size goes back down on T. Working out might correct that. And yeah, your areolas may be big and weirdly placed. But you can't know for sure until you try... If you can get a result that you are comfortable with without surgery, then that would of course be great. Just don't get your hopes up.

Actually I'm kind of lucky that it didn't even get as big as it was before I went on the low dose T cream.     But don't worry I'm not too hopeful, lol.

Quote from: DaddySplicer on October 08, 2010, 06:54:05 PM
@OC. I was deathly afraid of general anasthesia. I repeatedly asked if I could be kept awake. Just as I was going under, I started having a panic attack. Didn't last long against the drugs, obviously, but I was in the same boat as you. I did NOT want general anasthesia. For weeks afterward, I was paranoid about developping clots, even though that concern is only a few days after surgery.

Long story short, I freaked out on everybody, and nearly four months later, I'm still here to be embarrassed about it. It really isn't that bad. It's just scary.

Thanks man, makes me feel better that I'm not the only one in this boat, lol.

Glad everything went great for you. 

If you don't mind me asking did you go for peri or double incision?