Quote from: CindyJames on October 17, 2010, 02:56:06 AM
When should you transition? When you know and when you are ready; BUT being ready means having a means of support, a job. There are a lot of TG girls working as prostitutes in Australia, I don't think they have chosen it as the career of choice.  TG people are very special, not because I am one, but for the complex problems we present.

Cindy

I know it's frowned upon to say and i speak only for myself here but i don't frown upon prostitution and if there were a market for what i have to offer i would only hesitate to the extent that I stayed out of the sight of the law.

Certainly there are circumstances where it's something no one should want to mess with - primarily street work - and i'm not defending that.

but if i could support myself and pay for my transition with discrete escorting - yeah, i'd do it and feel no shame in doing so.

As for more "normal" means of support - there are places where that's just not going to happen, even if you have a job you stand a STRONG risk of losing it when you come out. and not all of us can fit into San Francisco or the handful of other places where we are acceptable - not all of us are qualified for the openings in such places.

There's no doubt that it's incredibly difficult to transition without a secure income, but i have no doubt that a great many of us never would if that were a pre-condition for starting.

not to be argumentative but I would contend "ready" is very much more a question of your own internal strength to be able to slog through the difficulties than it is the lack of significant difficulties.

Most of the barriers that are in the way of our transition are of our own devising, we tell ourselves that its society, or other external forces, but really it's what we tell ourselves that stops us transitioning. The right time to transition is when you've overcome these barriers, get them out of the way and while transition is never just a walk in the park, you can move forward knowing you've made the right decision.
I know that the physical results of transitioning are better if you're younger, but i don't think transitioning is just about the physical aspect...like anything in life, force yourself to do something when you aren't 100% certain it's the right choice and you'll never lose that little mental itch, that small voice asking "this was the right choice, wasn't it?"

or to put it more succinctly...the right time to transition is when you transition. And never ever fall prey to the many headed deamon of What If?...it will poison your soul and whiter your heart, leaving you a bitter desiccated husk of a person, wallowing in a mire of self pity and misery.

judging by that last paragraph i may be ready to start writing my novel again. Woot!

Quote from: Helena on October 17, 2010, 05:23:56 PM

or to put it more succinctly...the right time to transition is when you transition. And never ever fall prey to the many headed deamon of What If?...it will poison your soul and whiter your heart, leaving you a bitter desiccated husk of a person, wallowing in a mire of self pity and misery.

That's brilliant.

QuoteWhen Should You Transition?

Yes when you ready.
And I believe your ready when you can't stand pretending any longer. When you have to change your body to match who you know you are inside. When the only other choice is to end it all.
When we declare society be damn.
This isn't a want issue it's a need issue.
I just don't want to corrected my body to make it right. I need too.
Jillieann

Quote from: Helena on October 17, 2010, 05:23:56 PM
Most of the barriers that are in the way of our transition are of our own devising, we tell ourselves that its society, or other external forces, but really it's what we tell ourselves that stops us transitioning.

This is true only to an extent, I feel. The earliest I could have transitioned was when I was in my twenties. The only book about FTMs said that people like me are mentally ill and can be fixed through counseling. The guy said that transition doesn't help FTMs, and he had detailed case studies to back him up. I had no reason to believe that this expert was wrong. Perhaps I should have been more critical, but I can only claim that in hindsight.

Later, when I was exposed to the idea again in my thirties, I read up and found out that according to the prevailing transition model (I didn't know that things were changing, at first), I could never qualify for transition, for three (count 'em, three) distinct reasons that the psych establishment had agreed on.

I had no intention of self-medicating, and my local research turned up no evidence of any kind of informed consent clinic. So I didn't transition then. I really had to wait for the system to change.

When it did change, or seemed to be changing (I really wasn't sure), THEN I suppose I was the one holding me back.

I've wanted to transition since I was 15 or 16 and I learned the option was on the table, but with the exception of the good experience I had today all my experiences with trying to dress male have been awful. If I can't live as a male I can't get the go-ahead so I might never "be ready".

Quote from: Tammy Hope on October 17, 2010, 04:44:49 PM
I know it's frowned upon to say and i speak only for myself here but i don't frown upon prostitution and if there were a market for what i have to offer i would only hesitate to the extent that I stayed out of the sight of the law.

Certainly there are circumstances where it's something no one should want to mess with - primarily street work - and i'm not defending that.

but if i could support myself and pay for my transition with discrete escorting - yeah, i'd do it and feel no shame in doing so.

As for more "normal" means of support - there are places where that's just not going to happen, even if you have a job you stand a STRONG risk of losing it when you come out. and not all of us can fit into San Francisco or the handful of other places where we are acceptable - not all of us are qualified for the openings in such places.

There's no doubt that it's incredibly difficult to transition without a secure income, but i have no doubt that a great many of us never would if that were a pre-condition for starting.

not to be argumentative but I would contend "ready" is very much more a question of your own internal strength to be able to slog through the difficulties than it is the lack of significant difficulties.

I apologize Tammy. I wasn't casting aspersions, nor was I trying to suggest the 'sex trade' is any more immoral than any other trade. Certainly seems more moral than politics at times.
I've always rather fancied myself as an escort, beautiful clothes, body, make up, and the working hours would suit, alas I think time may have caught up with me.
What I was trying to say was making sure you had career options and not have to fall into a life style you did not want to follow. Woman can be vulnerable to manipulative men, and a young, relatively inexperienced new woman can fall prey to people who may promise the world but just want to exploit her.  Sadly we both know it happens.

Cindy

all the statistics show that MtF transition far later than FtMs and probably marry or father children while trying to live as a man.
No-one can give a definite reason and especially all the non-TS experts.
I think we just reach a point at which we realise time is drifting by and we have to transition or miss out on life totally.
As we all feel wrong as children we would benefit from early intervention but every day on here we see posts that show that people just will not accept the idea that their young or old child is TS.
I think we will look into Susan's in 20 years and find daily posts from TS who didn't transition young due to unnaccepting parents.
It's Monday morning and there must be a lot of people gone to work, school or uni who will spend a good part of the day wishing they could transition and live as the opposite sex but who will not do anything about it for years and perhaps never

Quote from: Aegir on October 18, 2010, 01:51:07 AM
I've wanted to transition since I was 15 or 16 and I learned the option was on the table, but with the exception of the good experience I had today all my experiences with trying to dress male have been awful. If I can't live as a male I can't get the go-ahead so I might never "be ready".

I'm really sorry to hear that. Can you describe some of the problems you're experiencing?

I agree, Lilac.  While we face many self-imposed barriers, there are many barriers outside of us, too.  If there is an unaccepting person or group who has a strong influence on your life, they can throw up barriers to transition.  By this I mean: parents if you are living at home, a spouse or partner, an employer, the government in your country, the major social forces in your area, etc.  Such impediments can be overcome, but they make it all much more difficult.

And as Cindy pointed out, first you have to survive.  If transition is going to put you on the street with no means of acquiring food and shelter, then transition is going to be problematic (to say the least ).  The thing that held me back before was that I didn't know how I would be able to feed and clothe myself if I transitioned.  I was finally "ready" when I knew that I would be able to manage to survive unless murdered by a bigot.

- Kate

Quote from: spacial on October 18, 2010, 05:37:04 AM
I'm really sorry to hear that. Can you describe some of the problems you're experiencing?

Some are ones I got myself into on my own like the issue with my husband being completely heterosexual (we have talked about it repeatedly though, it's not like I'm lying to him, he knows I only look female or at least pretends to), but the ones that led to me getting there were complete and utter inability to pass and the resulting harassment. At one point I was actually told "Samuel you are a woman and you're lying to me, what's your real name?" by my classmate; I was so utterly humiliated and I got ->-bleeped-<- for it from them and some others every time I went to class for the rest of the school year (and in the hall a few times after that) even thought I stopped trying out of shame halfway through the marking period. A few times they looked like they were going to follow me and I was afraid they had it in their heads to rape me to make me "enjoy being female" or something- Ive heard about ->-bleeped-<-ed up ->-bleeped-<- like that happening to all variations of people who are queer and have vaginas.

Even with friends I've spoken to about it at length, two have tried to convince me that I have no masculine characteristics I'm just confused because I lack any feminine characteristics- What, so then I'm a human void? I think it's that they can't imagine someone who looks like me not being like the demonstration model of a womanly feminine woman because I look feminine and attractive without makeup or highlights or push-up bras. I'm not and that actually makes me feel kindof bad, but try telling them that, apparently I should feel like the biggest winner. I stopped being friends with both of them. Enough of this issue or I'm going to unload on you and feel bad so I'd rather not.

Right now I don't think I'm in any position to safely get a therapist for this, but that should clear up in two or three years. I've been waiting long enough that I'm sure another few years won't kill me; my dysphoria is more manageable than it was in highschool so I'm feeling better now than I did.

But it's not even like I live in a trans-phobic town; I don't. The place I live is LGBT friendly. I jut met all the ->-bleeped-<-s I guess. That or I got a rare "treat" and got to see the nasty side of a bunch of mostly nice people. IDK it was bad.

Quote from: Aegir on October 19, 2010, 02:26:15 AM
Some are ones I got myself into on my own like the issue with my husband being completely heterosexual (we have talked about it repeatedly though, it's not like I'm lying to him, he knows I only look female or at least pretends to), but the ones that led to me getting there were complete and utter inability to pass and the resulting harassment. At one point I was actually told "Samuel you are a woman and you're lying to me, what's your real name?" by my classmate; I was so utterly humiliated and I got ->-bleeped-<- for it from them and some others every time I went to class for the rest of the school year (and in the hall a few times after that) even thought I stopped trying out of shame halfway through the marking period. A few times they looked like they were going to follow me and I was afraid they had it in their heads to rape me to make me "enjoy being female" or something- Ive heard about ->-bleeped-<-ed up ->-bleeped-<- like that happening to all variations of people who are queer and have vaginas.

Even with friends I've spoken to about it at length, two have tried to convince me that I have no masculine characteristics I'm just confused because I lack any feminine characteristics- What, so then I'm a human void? I think it's that they can't imagine someone who looks like me not being like the demonstration model of a womanly feminine woman because I look feminine and attractive without makeup or highlights or push-up bras. I'm not and that actually makes me feel kindof bad, but try telling them that, apparently I should feel like the biggest winner. I stopped being friends with both of them. Enough of this issue or I'm going to unload on you and feel bad so I'd rather not.

Right now I don't think I'm in any position to safely get a therapist for this, but that should clear up in two or three years. I've been waiting long enough that I'm sure another few years won't kill me; my dysphoria is more manageable than it was in highschool so I'm feeling better now than I did.

But it's not even like I live in a trans-phobic town; I don't. The place I live is LGBT friendly. I jut met all the ->-bleeped-<-s I guess. That or I got a rare "treat" and got to see the nasty side of a bunch of mostly nice people. IDK it was bad.

I really do understand many of the things you've talked about Aegir.

My wife wouldn't accept it. To be honest, she has the same problem, though quite a few masculine characteristics. But her family is African and just wouldn't understand, At all. For that reason, she has always tried to conform to a female role. Her family wouldn't accept me changing and neither would she.

For my part, I can't see a way past this. If we insist, we end up alone. I can't deal with that. I don't know how it would be for you.

The attitudes from your firends are not untypical. If you think about it, it's pretty insulting all round. Sort of like, Sexy girls get men, non-sexy girls can do what they want.

I suppose, at the end of the day, it's up to each of us to decide what's best for ourselves.

But you've made a resolution for the next few years. That is really very positve.

I know what you mean by ->-bleeped-<-s. Some will say we need to ignore them. Those who can are to be encouraged and admired.

In many ways, those bron female have a tougher time with SRS. Besides being more expensive and less common, the results are often more frustrating.

The body shape is also a problem. The chest can be conceiled with a binder, though it does sound uncomfortable. The tissue can be removed of course. But the hips remain.

Personally, I've reached the stage that I would be happy to lose the ugly bits. After than, I would be prepared to accept everything else! But that seems to be as remote as any other dream.

Thank you for sharing your experiences Aegir.

I think the simplest answer to your question, Kate, is: when you have no choice.

It's that point when all the objections, all the fears, all the shame, all the inhibitions that have held you back for so long are outweighed by one simple truth: you HAVE to do it.

Quote from: spacial on October 19, 2010, 06:29:11 AM
I really do understand many of the things you've talked about Aegir.

My wife wouldn't accept it. To be honest, she has the same problem, though quite a few masculine characteristics. But her family is African and just wouldn't understand, At all. For that reason, she has always tried to conform to a female role. Her family wouldn't accept me changing and neither would she.

For my part, I can't see a way past this. If we insist, we end up alone. I can't deal with that. I don't know how it would be for you.

The attitudes from your firends are not untypical. If you think about it, it's pretty insulting all round. Sort of like, Sexy girls get men, non-sexy girls can do what they want.

I suppose, at the end of the day, it's up to each of us to decide what's best for ourselves.

But you've made a resolution for the next few years. That is really very positve.

I know what you mean by ->-bleeped-<-s. Some will say we need to ignore them. Those who can are to be encouraged and admired.

In many ways, those bron female have a tougher time with SRS. Besides being more expensive and less common, the results are often more frustrating.

The body shape is also a problem. The chest can be conceiled with a binder, though it does sound uncomfortable. The tissue can be removed of course. But the hips remain.

Personally, I've reached the stage that I would be happy to lose the ugly bits. After than, I would be prepared to accept everything else! But that seems to be as remote as any other dream.

Thank you for sharing your experiences Aegir.

I think that I could part-tme without ending the marriage, myself, I think he would be OK with me just doing it every once in a while ( I mean, if he gets to run off alone all the time before he deploys because he needs to think, I am more than entitled to ask for some guy time), and my ability to cope is such that I could absolutely handle being part time- as long as I get to do it some of the time. Especially since hormones are probably not in the list of possibilities due to my poor health, I would more than likely only ended up part time without him in the equation. Then again, without him I very likely wouldn't have built up enough courage to talk about it again; he helped me in getting away from my too christian family a whole lot and I might still be there now without his help. They'd still be telling me I'd have to get married to a white christian and have grandkids and let him head the house because the bible says.

I have got somewhat wide shoulders (but counteracted by wide hips T-T) and I go to the gym to help myself out with body shape, and while I can't say it's not feminine, I've at least made it the manliest feminine I can muster, so on that front I do feel a little more in control now that I've got a gym membership. I only bind when I really can't stand it for right now.

I think that a psychiatrist will help, especially with my conflicting feelings about this whole situation. I've always probed my brain when I had an issue, and I have been nervous that all this is a response to what I grew up knowing was expected of me, even though (and especially because) it's been my whole life since my earliest memory- which was when I realized I couldn't be a girl and everyone had to be kidding me. (the kind of family I came from I was telling people I didn't want to be a mommy and they'd have to deal with pets for great/grandchildren/nieces/nephews when they told me to have a bunch for them when I was six or seven, so you've got to understand it was laid on thick from the very beginning) Every time I've thought about it since then, even though all the signs are there (and the lights are flashing) I wonder if it's GID or another psychological problem that resulted in GID as a symptom.

Quote from: Aegir on October 19, 2010, 04:42:33 PM
Every time I've thought about it since then, even though all the signs are there (and the lights are flashing) I wonder if it's GID or another psychological problem that resulted in GID as a symptom.

I went through this, too.  Perhaps most of us do.  This is where therapy or counseling can really help - figuring out if GID is a cause or a symptom.  Some guy time for yourself will help while you are waiting for the opportunity to start counseling.  Hang in there, man.

- Kate

Quote from: Aegir on October 19, 2010, 04:42:33 PM
I think that I could part-tme without ending the marriage, myself, I think he would be OK with me just doing it every once in a while ( I mean, if he gets to run off alone all the time before he deploys because he needs to think, I am more than entitled to ask for some guy time), and my ability to cope is such that I could absolutely handle being part time- as long as I get to do it some of the time. Especially since hormones are probably not in the list of possibilities due to my poor health, I would more than likely only ended up part time without him in the equation. Then again, without him I very likely wouldn't have built up enough courage to talk about it again; he helped me in getting away from my too christian family a whole lot and I might still be there now without his help. They'd still be telling me I'd have to get married to a white christian and have grandkids and let him head the house because the bible says.

I have got somewhat wide shoulders (but counteracted by wide hips T-T) and I go to the gym to help myself out with body shape, and while I can't say it's not feminine, I've at least made it the manliest feminine I can muster, so on that front I do feel a little more in control now that I've got a gym membership. I only bind when I really can't stand it for right now.

I think that a psychiatrist will help, especially with my conflicting feelings about this whole situation. I've always probed my brain when I had an issue, and I have been nervous that all this is a response to what I grew up knowing was expected of me, even though (and especially because) it's been my whole life since my earliest memory- which was when I realized I couldn't be a girl and everyone had to be kidding me. (the kind of family I came from I was telling people I didn't want to be a mommy and they'd have to deal with pets for great/grandchildren/nieces/nephews when they told me to have a bunch for them when I was six or seven, so you've got to understand it was laid on thick from the very beginning) Every time I've thought about it since then, even though all the signs are there (and the lights are flashing) I wonder if it's GID or another psychological problem that resulted in GID as a symptom.

I think, on the basis of what you've described, that your decision to compromise for the sake of your marriage is the right one. Sorry, but I use this term a lot. I do so because it's true and says what it means. Lonliness sucks.

My marriage is everything to me. So I really do understand how you feel.

Part time, when he's away, (I assume he's in the forces), is an excellent idea.

I mainly live as female, in my mind. I know that sounds really weird and slightly insane, but it keep me sane.  It's a lot easier when my wife is away. She is and always has been the dominent one. But when she goes on holiday and such, I can imagine I'm 100% female and relate to things through that.

Appearance is alwasy going to be a problem for all of us. But it's largely in our own minds if you think about it. OK, so some guy with a beard isn't going to be very convincing in a dress. But equally, apart from the few thugs who like to bother people, who cares? (I'm taking an extreme here of course).

I look at some of the photos on the guy section. Those that look especially good are those that exhibit confidence. There's one member here, Pica Pica, (Pica, I hope you're not offended by me citing you. If so, I apologise), he looks really good. His expression is relaxed, kinda in control and so interesting.

Having wide shoulders is a plus for you. I would think it's going to be a matter of trying it out. The worst that can happen, with all due respect, is you will be viewed as a masculine woman.

Your skin will be a problem. Female and male skin is so very different. I wonder if there are any foundations that could give you a male skin tone? perhaps a theatatrical supplier might have something suitable.

Understand your need to explore the issues with a psychiatrist. Getting to the root of our anxities can only be a positive thing.

For my part, I can recall so many events and experiences in my own life that could be used to justify almost anything. I just take it all as the way things are. If my need to be female is because of some incident when I was X, then, like, wow. But what really is the point? Some guy is obscessed with football because of XYZ. Some girl is obscessed with her career because of ABC.

It seems to me that what matters is that we're healthy. If I wanted to harm myself or others, or say, set fire to things, then that would clearly be unhealthy.

The notion of repressed memories was, as you probably know, first developed by Freud. He was working with people whose lives were crippled by these things.  I read here and elsewhere, people saying that have so many different diagnoses. Yet they seem no nearer to resolving whatever problems they think they have and frequently, the problems are those that they've been told they have.

Obscessional compulsive disorder is a classic. I've worked with people with this condition when I was nursing and it's really serious. These people could rarely concentrate enough to type messages into a forum, even if they could concentrate enough to learn how to use a computer in the first place!

One person on here, (again apologies to them), said they had been told by a therapist they had borderline OCD, or something along those lines. With respect, that rubbish. There is nothing wrong with being a little obscessional, or to use a rather more disgusting term, a little anal. My brother in law was a very successful hairdresser with a string of salons. He apparently, had a reputation of attending to the smallest details until it was perfect. Believe it or not, when he put his slippers away each morning, he'd tuck one inside the other and put them into a drawer. I saw him come back from work one day and take out the vacume, while my sister stood there, hands in her pockets, chatting to him!

Now, that's pretty obscessional, but it made him very successful, not to mention wealthy. And the last I heard, he had 4 great kids.

Anyway, rant over. I'm sure you'll be pleased with that.

Quote from: Teknoir on October 16, 2010, 09:06:43 PM
People should transition when they are ready, and on nobodies timetable but their own.

If they're ready for certain steps but not others, then by all means they should take only the steps they're ready for.

People should have the freedom to express themselves, live, and explore as they see fit. Even children.

Call me an unrealistic idealist, but I can't see any logical reason why this can't happen.

Agree, man.  Totally agree. 

Ideally, each of us transfolk would do well to "weigh everything" going on in our lives and "do it" whenever it's best.  Easier said than done.  Many of you have kids.  I do not.  Many of you have significant careers.  I just have a job.  Many of you have cool spouses and/or significant others who are staying on for the ride.  I do not.  "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose!" (Me & Bobbie McGee by Kris Kristofferson and made most famous by Janis Joplin (They were great friends in real life.))  That about says it all for me and my situation.

Like Kate (K8) said above, and for the same reasons, in my youth, there was just no way to transition.  Would loved to have done it at very early pubescence. 

Better late than never ... sigh.