I apologize for the bad bathroom-mirror-shot but I felt the visual had to be on this one ...

THIS is what I look like today ... I got "ma'am'd" 2x at Home Depot (the situation was I was pushing a cart full of a bunch of tile stuff and employees randomly just asked, "can I help you find anything ma'am?").


As some of you might know just from reading my posts I'm not on hormones and I'm not actively transitioning, but I don't exactly look like a ma'am either. It just makes me wonder sometimes - like that someone is SO SURE that they're going to bust out a ma'am. What makes them so sure? At the very most I'd say I looked androgynous. Like don't use any gender qualifier and just say, "can I help you find anything?" Is that so tough? On the other hand, it's still considered a "courtesy" in our society to use terms like ma'am and sir. So at some point you have to let it slide and just move on. But still, I wonder about some people.

Anyway, I just brushed it off and went and bought myself a cupcake.  I guess that's about all I can do really!

I think you pass and they were just being stupid. I understand though some days I seriously want to shout at people "hello, do you think I clip my hair short, dress as a man, and talk in a deep voice to get you to call me ma'am?!" Sorry that happened man but hey cupcakes always make it all better!

Quote from: Michael Alexander on October 23, 2010, 07:10:28 PM
I think you pass and they were just being stupid. I understand though some days I seriously want to shout at people "hello, do you think I clip my hair short, dress as a man, and talk in a deep voice to get you to call me ma'am?!" Sorry that happened man but hey cupcakes always make it all better!

I know right? From your avatar, I'd never call you ma'am either. Always a little amazing to me when that stuff happens.

It's kind of amusing because I live in an area where hunting is big so there was a guy down the aisle from me that was as tall as I am (so it wasn't a "petite" thing that did me in) but had on hunting camo hat and hunting camo jacket - and of course he got the sir. I think this town is just biased in some capacity. Any guy wearing tight black jeans and no camo with a slightly longish haircut has to be female right? lmao

And yeah, cupcakes make everything better!

is it a small town you live in? i get ma'amed when i wear tight pants in like a rural area (even though tight jeans emphasize that i have skinny thighs...) ....whereas in LA i got "sir" all the time in those same tight black jeans (but then LA is the capital of hipster world)

yes small towns are terrible at this sort of thing. people probably will think your female just from the hair. that and chest depending on how obvious it is. this is why I'm glad my cool co-workers (the good ones) don't use male or female pronouns to customers. it's just "hers ya go, have a nice day." women were being called sir, men were being called mam. there's a lot of gender neutral people around here lol. try being called "young lady." by creepy old guys. i get that every once in a while. stupid b cups

I know what you mean.  I've been thinking about it and I believe my body helps me pass quite a bit.  I am almost always considered a guy when they see all of me but from behind the counter I do get the occasional and extremely dreaded 'ma'am'.

The last time was a few days ago at a cafeteria in a fast paced lunch line.  The server / chief guy looked right at me and asked what I wanted throwing a ma'am in there at the end.  I just froze and stared at him.  I couldn't comprehend at first that he was talking to me.  For a moment he stared back at me with bewildered from my deer in the headlights expression.  Then he asked again without the ma'am and I was able to communicate my order with words.  It was moving to fast to do much else besides that. 

However I have a commitment to myself to always correct those who get it wrong.  I feel I deserve to be seen for who I am.  Besides getting it out is much better than brewing about it for the rest of the day.  So I sat there and waited until the lunch rush was over.  Then I went up there and introduced myself and asked that he not call me ma'am in the future.  People are usually a bit shocked when I do this.  As it breaks the 4th wall between service people and customer in a way.  However it's not a bad thing.  I'm very nice about it and so far it has always led to good understanding from people.

No kidding. I've been getting the she's lately too! And then ensues the cupcake type foods.. well more chocolate for me. But whatevs. It seems to be the new fad for Tim Hortons to refer to me as female.. maybe it's an inside joke O_O/

Quote from: emil on October 23, 2010, 08:04:30 PM
is it a small town you live in? i get ma'amed when i wear tight pants in like a rural area (even though tight jeans emphasize that i have skinny thighs...) ....whereas in LA i got "sir" all the time in those same tight black jeans (but then LA is the capital of hipster world)

Quote from: Noah the brave-ish on October 23, 2010, 08:19:35 PM
yes small towns are terrible at this sort of thing. people probably will think your female just from the hair. that and chest depending on how obvious it is.

Also Squirrel and Tad - every picture I've seen of your guys on this board is totally male to me. To call either of you female in any way seems really weird to me!

It's not that small of a town. I mean, I'm FROM L.A. though so anything is small comparatively lol. But still, there's plenty of younger kids/adults running around here with the tight jeans and moppy haircuts. I think maybe the older crowd sees something totally different.

For me, unless I'm just out wearing a t-shirt and really don't give a crap what people think the chest is not an obvious thing. Especially now that it's getting cooler and I can dip into my cache of awesome jackets again

I still don't get how any of you guys are getting called Ma'am. Specially you Squirrel since you've been on T for so long. Seems like in big cities though where there is a higher population of butch lesbians it's worse sometimes because they don't want to accidentally call a butch lesbian a man so they call guys girls. Grrr I hate living in Florida. I want Tim Hortons hot chocolate now. I really wish I was back in Ohio where I could get some :/

I'm also surprised many of you are called ma'am. All of the people in this thread look pretty masculine to me.

insideontheoutside: Not to insult your hairstyle or anything (I'm also a big fan of long hair), but maybe if you got it cut short, you'd get ma'amed less? Just a thought.

Yeah I'm not understanding it at all.. or where its coming from. My voice isn't even all that femine. More teenage boy. Sooo.. blahhhh wtf? Life goes on. Just weird as I did have a passing rate of like 100%.. and all of a sudden that's not so true anymore.. but what can I do.

Idk when i get ma'amed it just makes me so mad and I just look at the person like is there one feminine thing about me? Even if I don't pass does it look like I want to be ma'amed? Its supposed to be a respectful thing, but sometimes I just feel like the persons doing it out of disrespect, like I know you're a female even though thats clearly not wht youre going for. Idk, maybe thats just me.

Being pre T, your hair cut, jean jacket, and how you hold yourself makes you come off on the butch side. Your face does have masculine attributes, but the hair is a womens cut.  Jean jackets can be stereotypically lesbian. I deal with the public every day. Women often tilt their heads where as men stand relaxed, straight, facing forward. I think a good hair cut would do you wonders.

I live in a small city.  Most people here are extremely conservative and rural.  My hair is maybe bottom of neck length, I've been on T for about 3 1/2 months, and my voice is all croaky and resolutely not feminine.  I wear male clothes.  I glare at waitresses and cashiers alike.  If I'm with my mother, they call us "ladies"; never before in my life, not pre-T or pre-transition, have I been so bothered by this.  I get so pissed off and injured.  My mother says they call me a "lady" alongside her because they see that I'm not feminine and think they are being reassuring.  Granted, most of these people know me from pre-T because they are overly friendly, female cashiers that I see way too often.  Sometimes friendliness is just... not good.   

But in short, I know how it feels.  Ugh.

Is the ma'aming you guys get done without malice and just a simple mistake because they see some obvious femaleness or is it maliciousness that makes them do it the way so many people will deliberately smirk as they call even a quite passable MtF sir

@pundit and @sharky I know you guys mean well, but I look like an f-ing dork with short hair ...

(faking it here but it illustrates the dork-factor)

(also note - my hair is naturally wavy and light brown so imagine even dorkier and girlier ... and even though i do have slight actual facial hair not being able to grow sideburns just kills it for me)


To me, the messy longer hair works a lot better and doesn't make me look like a total dork 

I don't want to look like every other dude and I'm definitely not opposed at all to looking like more "girly" dude. But I'm definitely not a "ma'am" and I'm not anything like a butch lesbian. Bad-angled bathroom mirror shot aside, I wouldn't say how I carry myself is female at all. I don't know about jean jackets and the lesbians ... everyone wears those

Yeah short hair doesn't work for everyone. I never passed when I had a short back and sides cut and pass 75% of the time now with longer hair if I don't talk 

you look like a sir... ma'am, what?

Again with the short hair, sometimes it brings out feminine features that are otherwise hidden with long-ish hair, or at least having bangs in your face. I'll agree, there are some styles that are too long and make a person seem very feminine, but the wavy hair helps with that. I know that when I have short hair, I look like a cute, girly elf, which is not the image I'm going for.

And insideontheoutside, you don't look dorky, but I prefer the long hair.

Yeah I definitely think some guys look better with longer hair and not the traditional super short "male" haircuts. Depends on your face, features, etc. etc. I definitely look a bit "elfy" as well with some shorter hair styles (could be the 5'3" factor too).

Also having "perfect" well-kept longer hair is more feminine I think. Although I see some bio guys with short hair where it seems like they've spent hours on it just getting every piece in place and probably have more hair product than I do times 10 haha.