I'm confused as to why being transgendered is that big of a deal.  All it really means is that you don't conform to a socially constructed stereotype.  Who cares if you fit a stereotype or not?  By the way, I am not meaning to offend anyone or deny that there are perspectives out there that are different from mine.  I simply do not understand it and have come here to look at it from another perspective.

I have always been a bit of a non-conformist and throughout my adult life I have enjoyed at times challenging peoples stereotypes.

However, the area of gender for me is different. My gender is internal to myself, yet it changes my life so completely in every aspect from the way people talk to me, to my relationship with friends and family, to the way I feel about and people respond to me physically.

So it's a big deal to me.

Of course, as a direct consequence of that I am placed back into challenging peoples stereotypes again - by walking down the street in a dress or whatever, I am challenging peoples stereotypes about gender whenever they realise that I might actually be (shock horror) a "guy".

I guess the real question isn't if being transgendered is a big deal to me (or other "sufferers") because it is a reality that we have to deal with. The question should be why is it a big deal to you, or other "regular" members of society?

Gender is one of those things that we learn and take for granted are true. Most people assume that when they wake up they will be in the room they went to sleep in, the sun will rise in the east, and gravity will pull them to the floor when they get out of bed. And they assume that men are like this and women are like that. It's so pervasive that it's fairly invisible.

We sort of mess that up for people. By our very existance and our refusal to sink into the woodwork we challenge their (and our) view of the way things work. We make people question something that most of them have had no reason to question. That's why it's such a big deal.

Logically, it doesn't matter.  Socially, it matters depending on the society.  In the society I grew up in it matters because it is never questioned when told there are boys and girls, that's all.  There are countless stereotypes forced on us and by the time we're old enough to realize what has happened we are already deeply involved in fulfilling the expectations that go along with them.  

Julie

Quote from: Jenny on December 14, 2006, 05:03:40 PMThe question should be why is it a big deal to you, or other "regular" members of society?

Good point.  I guess it wouldn't be a big deal to you or any other trans person, if it weren't such a big deal to society in general.  I guess that must be the part I don't get.  Why is it such a big deal to society?  Hm...  I wasn't thinking when I made this post, was I?

 

QuoteI'm confused as to why being transgendered is that big of a deal.

To some of those here, the terms mean little if anything, they just are, depending on your personal introspective how you view life and the people around you are somewhat different.  The root of these differences makes for very different views on the same subjects, so having different points of reference, like Transgender and Transsexual/ intersexed/ crossdressers and male and female root organs.  Things like entertainment and more specific tags like hate and politics etc. create a place to put things that do not relate to the type of person you are.

Due to the above I like things the way they are because I can see how different people relate as a group to many things I am curious about.  Of course there are some forums I almost never look at outside rhe latest messages button.

It has been noted forever in the past that you get more from diversity then you do from specialisation ....

Terri Gene

Look how straight people are afraid of gays getting married to see just how threatened they feel about issues relating to sexuality...  and here we are wanting to change gender!  To many people, they don't know exactly why, but they feel it is contrary to everything that they believe to be decent.  It challenges their faith, their own understanding of their own sexuality and gender.  It's not a passing curiosity, it is a real threat to many.

It's important that we understand this.  

Cindi

Quote from: HelloToYou on December 14, 2006, 04:35:37 PMI'm confused as to why being transgendered is that big of a deal.  All it really means is that you don't conform to a socially constructed stereotype.  Who cares if you fit a stereotype or not?  By the way, I am not meaning to offend anyone or deny that there are perspectives out there that are different from mine.  I simply do not understand it and have come here to look at it from another perspective.

It doesn't really matter, it's part of the nature rainbow or spectrum of human beings and human expression, but it's the other 99+% who does think it matters and want to enforce some degree of morality to it. It's almost written into the history of the trans movement from the medical side. Why would any physician really care who you are as long as your mentally and physically healthy and they can provide the proper health care? Why did the APA's decide first it's a disease, then a disorder, and now what? What are they holding on to? Control? Remember they created the term abnormal for a reason and began sticking all sorts of people into it by description. So why does transgender, or transsexual, even fit into anything?  And yet we're the ones embarrassed into feeling small and out of place. And why do they put all these restrictions on the process to find peace with yourself when it's simply helping people? It's troublesome to me a person with a good history of work, life, etc, and with full knowledge of themselves can't make a change like this without enormous work, costs, and embarrassment when it's others that create the problems. What don't they understand? What are they afraid of? Beats me. But it's reality as we know it now, and changing too.

--Susan--

Yes, men souldn't wear women's clothes, or put on women's make up.  Men shouldn't do women's things, knit or crochet.
But, if we think of ourselves as women (which we are) then all of taboos that men shoudn't do this or that are irrelevant aren't they, since we aren't men?
If you are a woman it doesn't matter that you are doing things men shoudn't do. 
I remind myself often that I am not a man, and that makes me feel better about life.
BTW I am a post surgical who went back to being a "man" who is still basically a woman and has the plumbing to prove it. 
Life isn't easy friends.
Molly

Why does gender matter?
I would like to say that is a good question.  I don't think it is fair.  Society has a long way to go. 
If you are a woman, you are a woman.
If you feel that being a woman is you, then don't let others make you feel like you are being a man trying to be a woman.
Just be the woman you are, and to H(ell) with them.
It isn't easy is it?
I know is isn't.
Molly

Quote from: ruthie on December 19, 2006, 10:40:34 PM
Yes, men souldn't wear women's clothes, or put on women's make up.  Men shouldn't do women's things, knit or crochet.
But, if we think of ourselves as women (which we are) then all of taboos that men shoudn't do this or that are irrelevant aren't they, since we aren't men?
If you are a woman it doesn't matter that you are doing things men shoudn't do. 
I remind myself often that I am not a man, and that makes me feel better about life.
BTW I am a post surgical who went back to being a "man" who is still basically a woman and has the plumbing to prove it. 
Life isn't easy friends.
Molly

Why shouldn't men do women's things?  What are women's things, anyway?  What makes them "women's things"?

Quote from: HelloToYou on December 20, 2006, 01:17:39 AM

Quote from: ruthie on December 19, 2006, 10:40:34 PM
Yes, men souldn't wear women's clothes, or put on women's make up.  Men shouldn't do women's things, knit or crochet.
But, if we think of ourselves as women (which we are) then all of taboos that men shoudn't do this or that are irrelevant aren't they, since we aren't men?
If you are a woman it doesn't matter that you are doing things men shoudn't do. 
I remind myself often that I am not a man, and that makes me feel better about life.
BTW I am a post surgical who went back to being a "man" who is still basically a woman and has the plumbing to prove it. 
Life isn't easy friends.
Molly

Why shouldn't men do women's things?  What are women's things, anyway?  What makes them "women's things"?

Yeah, why shouldn't they? Thing is, in earlier times, men's clothes were pretty, and by today's standards, very feminine. It also used to be completely acceptable for men to wear makeup, too.
So I agree with you, "what makes them women's things?"

The thing is, it isn't a big deal.  I personally don't make it a big deal and nobody around me acts like it's a big deal.  Other than here, I rarely talk about being TS, because I feel the point of transition is so you don't have to constantly be dealing with your gender.  I'm a woman plain and simple and that's all there is to it.

Melissa

I too think that the clothing thing is way out of line.  History is replete with men and women wearing all sorts of clothes.  We regularly have one of our observing friends wear a kilt in the summer.  No one says anything about it.  Men and women have historically worn heels, tights, makeup, long hair, and jewelry. 

I remember hearing the following joke in the seventies:

What's the latest thing in men's clothing?   Women.

Today's fashions, are for the most part, not very gender specific.  I know that if a well dressed woman were to show up in the protestant america of the 17th century, she'd likely be tied to a stake for improper display of her womanly charms.

So, clothing is really not an issue.  It is the image it portrays.  If it is dressed as a woman, it must be a woman. If it is not, we are messing round with a very strong societal need to distinguish between the two sexes.  Yes, we are totally caught up in procreation.  And any fiddling with the markers that split the two sexes so that we can continue to procreate, can totally screw up most primitive thinkers.

That's why it is so important... so that guys can keep their daydreams and libidos strong for the "right" reasons.

I agree about clothing not mattering.  I've seen this one guy in the city who wears a skirt.  He definitely is not trying to look female, he is totally male except the skirt.  And you know what?  Nobody seems to give him a second glance as if it's perfectly normal.  It would be so nice if the whole world regarded people in this manner (i.e. Let them do what they want and treat them like a person).

Melissa

I believe that the spectrum of gender is a sliding scale. Picture a scale with black on one end for total male and white on the other end for total female. I don't think anyone or very few fit at the far end of either scale. I think most are somewhere close to either side of the middle. So what we have in society are men and women with a combination of male and female traits, emotions and feelings. GG Women know this and I believe accept this rather easily. Men however are trained and brainwashed form childhood that anything female in them is bad and must not be accepted. IT MUST BE BANISHED! Therefore, I believe all or most men are guilt ridden and ashamed to different degrees of these feelings because society has deemed them weak and bad in a REAL MAN.

So when they see one of us, who has accepted and embraced our feminity, it brings their repressed feminine feelings and emotins back to the surface and scares them at the core of their brainwashed beliefs. Therefore they immediately feel guilty and ashamed that they have let these feelings back in their MALE life and threaten thier brainwashed expectations of being a REAL MAN. This guilt at times turns to anger and they may strike out.

I think our challenge as transgendered people and people in general is to try and reach society and men specifically with the fact that we are all made up of male and female emotions and feelings and that is a GOOD THING! I believe this line of effort will help our cause more than trying to convince society that WE are OK and not a threat. It may take years and years. But I believe this is one of the ways to move our acceptance in society forward.

Just my thoughts.

With love,

Kylie

society (people - particularly men) are threatened by what we are is that they have