My endo just prescribed progesterone, I will have them this week.  I am already on Estradiol and Spironolactone, what can I expect to happen once progesterone is added.  I am already maxed on estradiol, and he increased my spiro.

I experienced a slight increase in sex drive.  Perhaps maybe a bit moodier.

P was recently added to my regimen  the other month... I've noticed that my boobs are beginning to become more rounded and bit perkier... They also hurt like all hell again

As far as mood... People have commented that I'm much calmer

I do progesterone cyclically, and I have noticed that I am getting fuller more rounder.  Mood wise I have not noticed any major changes.

I just got my labs back from my endo on my follow up from starting progesterone.  My T level has gone from 112ng/dl to 49ng/dl and my estradiol level from 67ng/dl to 149ng/dl.  My moods and thoughts seem like they are more focused.  All of my other labs are normal and boy, my boobs hurt and itch more now than when I first started HRT.  Puberty is a welcome thing, but I cannot wait till I have grown up.  LOL.  My boobs have increased one full cup size since the introduction of progesterone.  Cannot wait to see the end result.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 25, 2010, 05:34:06 PM
I do progesterone cyclically, and I have noticed that I am getting fuller more rounder.  Mood wise I have not noticed any major changes.

I know some doctors do not recommend Progesterone and some do.
And of the doctors that recommend Progesterone some recommend a low dose non cyclical and some recommend a higher cyclical dose.

  What is the theory behind using Progesterone in a cyclical dose?

  Thanks, Erocse

to simulate a woman's cycle.  Some believe that it helps

Yeah having tried both, they both work, and they do help bust development and overall mood. The main reason for the cyclic version is that it is the closest thing to what nature would do!

No the cyclic nature is because P can impair E uptake. So either a low continual dose so it doesn't mess with it or a cyclic dose so it only messes with it alittle. also coming off a cycle increases sensitivity to E

My doctor told me cycling it wouldn't do anything but give me mood swings. I didn't realize P blocks E intake. That is kind of worrisome. Is it 3 weeks on 1 week off? She told me I can cycle it if I want.

CONSIDER ADDING PROGESTERONE
Usually TS HRT consists of just an estrogen and an anti-androgen. Most
endocrinologists consider progesterone "optional" but there are very
good reasons to consider it "essential." First and foremost progesterone
is the body's natural way to block an enzyme called 5-ARD
(5-alpha-reductase) which converts testosterone into DHT. Many TS
patients choose to use Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar) for this purpose,
and it is quite good at blocking the conversion, but Finasteride doesn't
offer the other benefits progesterone does. [
<http://www.yourlifesource.com/progesterone-effects.htm> more on Pg
benefits] [ <http://www.ijpc.com/_pdf/progest.pdf> other effects of
progesterone] The bone-building enzymes called "Osteoblasts" have a
hormone receptor for progesterone. In post-menopausal women on HRT who
have been given estrogen it only helps combat loss of bone density if
their adrenal glands are still capable of producing high levels of
progesterone (a normal chemical response to high estrogen is to produce
more of the "balancing hormone" progesterone). However, if the body
isn't capable of countering the estrogen with enough progesterone the
person becomes "estrogen dominant" and the estrogen may actually
DECREASE bone density by acidifying blood (which causes calcium to be
pulled form bone stores to neutralize it) and estrogen can also creat
"microclots" in bones the create weakening "voids." What the
pharmaceutical industry has been slow to admit is that doctors have been
prescribing the WRONG hormone to women for over half a century! Why?
Because nobody owns the patent on natural micronized progesterone.
There's simply no profit in it for them. Other natural progestrone
benefits include lowering "bad" cholesterol and countering rampant
estrogen-driven cellular division (particularly crucial if one has an
estrogen-sensitive tumor). Testosterone can also counter this cellular
growth, by the way. There is anecdotal evidence that progesterone is
necessary for rounder, fuller, breast growth as some of the tissues in
the breast are progesterone sensitive. Many TS women have reported
additional breast growth and "fullness" after taking progesterone - even
years after they had believed they had achieved all the growth possible
under estrogen-only HRT. [ <http://members.aol.com/profchm/rahman.html>
source 1] [ <http://www.nexusmagazine.com/HormoneHeresy.html> source 2
summary page 1 /  <http://www.nexusmagazine.com/hormone2.html> source 2
summary page 2 /
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0958725209/002-1616932-59
75250?vi=glance> full book at Amazon]
Part of the problem in verifying things where TS HRT is concerned is
that virtually no broad studies have been done. Almost all the data is
co-opted from studies done on post-menopausal women, which may very well
be an "apple to oranges" type comparison. The truth is nobody knows if
the data is transferable or not.
I should also mention that, though the terms are used interchangeably
even by doctors, "progesterone" and "progestins" are NOT the same thing!
Many TS people take Medroxyprogesterone (Provera) as part of their HRT,
believing it will give them the same benefits as micronized
progesterone. Provera is NOT a substitute for Prometrium!
Prometrium & Liver Toxicity: As far as Prometrium goes, about 75% of
what you ingest is broken down in the liver before any ever hits the
bloodstream. While this give your liver some extra work, I haven't seen
any studies indicating progesterone or it's metabolites are particularly
"liver toxic." I'd be more inclined to say the polar opposite. One study
I've read found that progesterone increased the amount of a protein
(called that binds with heavy metals, thus improving detoxification
after exposure to things like Cadmium [
<http://www.sinica.edu.tw/zool/zoolstud/41.1/111.pdf> source ] That
pretty well says to me that progesterone moving through the liver
actually INCREASES it's ability to detoxify, so I'm not going to worry
about whether the Pg is trucking through my liver or not!

SUMMARY: The Ups and Downs of Progesterone

Studies: The "Up" Side
General Benefits
Mayo Clinic researchers surveyed 176 women taking natural micronized
progesterone who had previously taken synthetic progestins. After one to
six months, the women reported an overall 34% increase in satisfaction
on micronized progesterone compared to their previous HRT, reporting
these improvements: 50% in hot flashes, 42% in depression, and 47% in
anxiety.
Cardiovascular Health
Studies at Wake Forest University School of Medicine have concluded that
synthetic medroxyprogesterone, in contrast to bio-identical
progesterone, increases the risk of coronary vasospasm. This narrowing
of major blood vessels surrounding the heart could potentially lead to a
heart attack. On the contrary, bio-identical progesterone plus estradiol
protected against vasospasm.
Skin Health
Though progesterone does not increase skin thickness (1), it does
increase blood flow to the skin (2) resulting in an increased ability to
sweat and loose the extra heat through the skin (3). Progesterone can
also raise body temperature, enhancing the ability to tolerate cold (4).
Bone Densisty
Progesterone has stimulating effect on the bone building osteoblasts
resulting in increased bone building activity (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10).
This is due to a direct stimulation of the progesterone receptors in
osteoblast bone cells (11, 12), as well as an increased secretion of
IGF-1 and other growth factors by the bone cells exposed to porgesterone
(13, 14, 15). The most positive effect is seen when estrogen &
progesterone are used in combination (16).
"Good" Cholesterol
Natural micronized progesterone will not reduce the good HDL levels that
are enhanced by estrogen replacement (17), and will result in higher HDL
than when synthetic progestogens are used (18) .
This lipoprotein (a) benefit of estrogen is not diminished by either
synthetic (medroxyprogesterone acetate) or natural micronized
progesterone (19, 20).
Epithelial Breast Cancer
Cancers often develop in epithelial cells [which make up one of the
several tissues in breast composition].All cells have a finite life
span,and there is a balance between cell division and cell death. When
stimulated by estrogen,the BCL2 gene causes breast cells to grow rapidly
and prevents cell death.In ovarian carcinoma cell lines and in breast
epithelial cells, Progesterone induces apoptosis [disintigration of the
cell membrane] and upregulates the P53 gene - a tumor suppressing gene
(34,35). Tests have demonstrated that "progesterone at a concentration
similar to that seen during the third trimester of pregnancy exhibited a
strong antiproliferative effect on at least two breast cancer cell lines
(36,37).
It is also noteworthy to mention how synthetic progestins such as
medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) or norethindrone occupy the
progesterone receptor site and inhibit the binding of endogenous
progesterone to the receptor. Synthetic progestins do not activate the
P53 gene and also prevents the production of the body's own progesterone
(the brain is tricked into thinking there is enough already). This
chemically induced progesterone deficiency, like natural progesterone
deficiency, may increase the risk of breast cancer because the BCL2 gene
is upregulated by estradiol and no corresponding downregulation opposes
that action.
General Tumor Suppression
As mentioned above, progesterone can upregulate the P53 tumor
suppressing gene. This gene is present in tissue outside the breast as
well, so there can be a systemic suppression of cancerous cell
divisions.
Hair Growth/Hair Loss
Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar) was found to be a major inhibitor of
dihydrotestosterone (DHT) formation. Even 1 nM finasteride inhibited DHT
synthesis in dermal papillae by 86% and 1 nM progesterone by 75%.
Estrogens were less able to inhibit the synthesis of DHT in dermal
papillae ( e.g. 100 nM 17alpha-E: 20%; 100 nM 17beta-E: 60%).
Measurements were made on cultures done from scalp biopsies with
high-performance liquid chromatography analysis, which is why test
levels are reported in "nanometers." [ As reported in the European
Journal of Dermatology. Vol. 11, Issue 3, May - June 2001: 195-8,
Investigative Reports. "Influence of estrogens on the androgen
metabolism in different subunits of human hair follicles" S. Niiyama, R.
Happle, R. Hoffmann: Department of Dermatology, Philipp University,
Deutschhausstraße 9, D-35033 Marburg, Germany. full article text:
www.john-libbey-eurotext.fr/articles/ejd/11/3/195-8/]
And to be fair and impartial, I think I should say that there ARE some
risks or negative side effects that have ALSO been observed and studied
in relation to micronized progesterone:
Studies: The "Down" Side
Sex Drive
Excessive progesterone may decrease libido due to antiestrogen and
anti-androgen effect (21, 22). As well as decreasing libido, excessive
levels may induce depression (23).
Blood Sugar
While estrogens help the cells of the body utilize glucose more
efficiently by making them more sensitive to insulin, progesterone can
cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity, having an effect on blood sugar
that is similar glucocorticosteroids 12. This interference with the
action of insulin can interfere with normal glucose uptake and cause
insulin resistance (24, 25, 26, 27, 28) .
The ability of progesterone to interfere with proper function of insulin
and glucose has since been associated with gestational diabetes (29, 30,
31) as well as hormone replacement therapies (32,33, 34, 35) and has
been been observed in both synthetic & non-synthetic progesterone (36,
37, 38, 39). Even the high progesterone levels which occur naturally
during the luteal phase can induce insulin resistance in some women (21,
28) .
Progesterone-sensitive Breast Cancer
Progesterone insufficiency may play a role in the development of breast
cancer (29), however progesterone may also play a role in the
proliferation of some progesterone receptor forms of breast cancer -
referred to as "PR+" breast cancer. There is a test to determine whether
breast cancer cells are estrogen or progesterone sensitive. (30). This
increased risk is associated with the increased production of IGF-1 by
breast cells stimulated by excessive progesterone (31, 32) - resulting
in the proliferation of several forms of breast cancer cells (33).

 Thanks, Muffin.  That was just what I was looking for.  Great post , very informative!!!!

  Hugs, Erocse

Quote from: Kellsie on October 25, 2010, 04:02:12 PMMy moods and thoughts seem like they are more focused.

I've noticed this as well after 1 month on bio-identical progesterone. It was one of the benefits described to me by Dr. McGinn (my surgeon who also manages my hormones) because I suffer from a number of PMS symptoms every month. She did also say this benefit is more from taking a steady dose and that cycling might produce the opposite effect.

What is really the difference in provera and progesterone....

Provera contains medroxyprogesterone acetate, which is a derivative of progesterone. I take Prometrium, which is micronized progesterone structurally identical to the progesterone produced by a woman's body.

Provera

Progesterone

And like FairyGirl I take prometrium, under a different brand name.  It is easier one the body, i.e. liver, to take the micronized version.

Quote from: Kellsie on September 25, 2010, 03:15:27 PM
My endo just prescribed progesterone, I will have them this week.  I am already on Estradiol and Spironolactone, what can I expect to happen once progesterone is added.  I am already maxed on estradiol, and he increased my spiro.

Possibly bigger boobs faster and a huge increase in appetite.

Quote from: Dana Lane on October 27, 2010, 05:29:43 PM
My doctor told me cycling it wouldn't do anything but give me mood swings. I didn't realize P blocks E intake. That is kind of worrisome. Is it 3 weeks on 1 week off? She told me I can cycle it if I want.

This right here.

I've been on Medroxyprogesterone for the last while and was wondering if I should be cycling it or not.

My doctor was rather clueless to it, but it seems that cycling it is the way to go.

So three weeks on and one week off or three weeks off one week on seem the best way to go?

I will say I have noticed that the balls behind my nipples have reduced a lot, and am wondering if it could be due to me constantly taking progesterone.

I'm thinking I'll cycle off it for at least the next week regardless and see how I feel at the end of the week. Could really use advice on the time table for cycling though because I think that will be the best way for me.

Yeah the biggest difference I noticed on P is that I seemed much more calm.

I've heard girls say that P made their boobs get bigger...well it's been almost 6 months and I havent really seen that, I don't think.

I cycle micronized progesterone (microgest) for 10 days a month to help round out my boobs but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that shows a lot of the breast increase through progesterone is temporary and is pretty much 'water weight' that decreases after the progesterone has been stopped.

Either way even with the mild depression I get from it I think its  worth it to ward of pointy boobs