I didn't tell my now-partner of nearly 3 years that I was trans until things started to get a bit more serious between us and he started to initiate sexual advances (and it was hilarious after the fact, because he revealed that he thought I didn't like him, as I never got a boner, despite all of our making out). Obviously, it was important he know if we were taking those steps in the relationship.

To be honest I was -horrified- to tell him. I did it via the computer (as we lived quite a bit aways and my family was NOT supportive of my seeing him). I cried as I did it. But, he just kind of shrugged it off and said that explained why I never got a hardon for him, then asked if that meant that I really was into it (which I was)...and that was that. I just straight up told him I wasn't born a male---and so I didn't have male genitalia.

Obviously, if your guy identifies strictly as gay, he might have more trouble accepting it. My guy identifies as bi, but with a male bias (he finds women attractive, physically, but has no desire to be in a relationship with one). There was some rough patches where he became depressed about my lack of 'male equipment'...and I understand that. Obviously if you intend to keep what you have below the waist, and your guy isn't into that, you may have more problems (in the sex department at least), but who knows...some guys like that about transguys, mine certainly does. >_>

This is the same question I have.  I've always identified as male, and as a young child would cry because I was supposed to be a boy.  But at the same time I'm totally attracted to masculine men.  I've lived my life as a straight woman, but have always felt lacking in the sex department due to lack of male equipment.  I could not shrug it off as basic penis envy, it's far more than that.  Anyway, I'm now divorced with kids and am figuring out who I really am, and feel like something is missing sexually for me, but in reality, will taking hormones and becoming a man change things?  I'll never have 100% what I crave (a penis and testicles), and then, as a gay man lacking a penis, how desirable will I be?  At least with straight men I can imagine, though I'm sure they'd freak if they knew what went on in my head.  I used to dress like a boy as a child.  I haven't dressed as a man, though, but my clothes are basically jeans and tee shirts (or sweat shirts).

I appreciate all of your help, too, and any other info you can think of.  Do hormones alone change you enough down there that it's worth it (assuming no bottom surgery?)  Are prosthetics ok?  Do the stp packys work?

Obviously I'm just in the beginning stages of thinking about this.  Probably I'll just buy some baggier pants and wear a packy and see if that's enough to not feel totally lacking.

Jaye

@sneakersjay
well, I'm pretty new to all this, too, and probably can't give you much useful information, but I will try anyway.

I really can relate to this 'gay man lacking a penis' thing because this really bothered (still bothers me)--while I do like girls too, a relationship between two man has been some kind of an ideal to me, even at an age when I understood hardly anything about love or sex or homosexuality.
But this link to the lastes issue of OUT somebody posted somewhere around here, really gave me hope. Because even if gay men are just about a tenth as tolerant and ready to have a relationship/sex with a guy without a penis, as these article make them sound, they would still be much more accepting than I would have ever dared dreaming.

I can't tell you anything about surgery or hormones, but for me at least dressing as a man alone (even if I'm far from passing) made a difference.
When I bought my first male clothing it was important to me that it wouldn't be recognized as such since outing myself at school was about the last thing I wanted. Now - only about 3 months later - I absolutely can't bring myself to wear my 'old' girl clothes because they feel so wrong to me.
However, I didn't dress like a boy as a child (except that I hated pink) because my mum raised me rather genderless and as a child 'being a girl' had no more importance to me than 'being blond'--that was just how it was and nobody cared that behaved as 'boyish' as I wanted to.



@the yaoi fan girls somebody mentioned:
That's the reason I don't really want to out myself (or at least only if sombody asks directly and not in my profile) at a forum I hang around a lot:
Too many damn giggling and squealing 14-year-olds that tell everybody that they want to have SRS so they can f*** hot gay men...(it goes without saying that they have not the least idea what transitioning actually means)

Thanks, elincubus!!

I bought my first male clothes this week and i'm stoked.  nothing too obvious, some cargos similar to girls in two styles and some tees.  i've ordered a binder and a packy just to see, not to pass, but to feel a bit more complete??  then if i like it i'll see where it goes.  maybe if i just dress more male and pack it will be enough.  nobody has to know about the packing anyway, but that's my biggest issue and always has been.  i wish i knew they existed years ago!!  it will be complicated to come out and take T -- i have 2 kids an a job that requires a lot of paperwork and licensing and that would be a huge mess to change right now.  so maybe in between.  if people think im' just gay, well  i am?  LOL

sneakersjay,

I can only speak about my experiences, of course. Yours may vary, depending upon the company you keep. I tend to keep company with a lot of gay/bisexual men who are into 'furries' (an unaccepted fetish by society as it is). Nonetheless, gay or bi men who feel unaccepted by society themselves (though not for gender related issues), are more likely to accept us. Personally, only a handful of guys who I've told (and who were attracted to me) were put off by it (they were complete 'bottoms' and thus my lack of male equipment was too much for them to get over) and were no longer interested. Others were put off, but gradually accepted it and even forgot about it. And others still were actually -more- attracted to me (usually the 'tops'). All were equally as 'grossed out' by going down on 'chick parts' though. But that's understandable if they identify as mostly gay.

So I'd say you'd be pretty desirable. LOTS of guys are attracted to transguys because damn...we're HOT. =D

Hormones were definitely worth it for me. You'll get the body/facial hair, the deeper voice, the slightly different facial structure (fat redistributation), more muscle tone, and overall your body will look different and more masculine. It also changes you mentally. of course your sex drive increases. Your orgasms become more intense (mine did anyway), and your penis (clit) will get larger. Mine's about the size of my thumb. You will get random boners too. It's great! Likewise, top surgery and a hysto were definitely worth it for me. I was very large up top and I had them removed, and started T, within 2 weeks of each other.

Lower surgery...well...that's another story. I recently had a less invasive metoidplasty (just a release, no ligaments were cut, no urinary hook-up) and testicle implants, and to be honest, I regret the decision (and am meeting with the Dr. to potentially have it 'reversed') and would advise anyone thinking about it to consider WHY they're getting it and whether it's worth it (it certainly hasn't been to me...I feel like I made a 7k mistake).

There are lots of different trains of thought. Some guys are only happy if they have all of the surgeries (lower included), and they're happy with the outcomes. Some guys don't want surgery at all. Some don't want to bother with lower surgery because the available surgeries are expensive and leave a lot to be desired. For me, when I first started, I had to do everything---I was sure that I would not feel complete without getting a phalloplasty or lower surgery. But after I had my hysto...I don't know, it wasn't important to me anymore. I felt like a man. Even if I had chick genitals, no one knew but me, my family, and my lover. I was happy. I had found peace with who I was and what my body was. Everything functioned like it should---I got pleasure out of it (a lot...*Cough*), and lower surgery just wasn't a priority or necessary for me. I liked the way I was, chick parts below the waist or not. It took 26 years, but I came to peace with my chick genitals. Adding to that, the surgeries for transguys are just NOT sufficient (even the Dr. who did mine admitted this). I wouldn't advise -anyone- get a Phallo, simply because of the risks, costs, and lack of sensation. Metoids...well, SOME guys can pull them off, but usually it requires a more invasive metoid procedure that involves cutting suspensory ligaments, urinary hookup, and formation of a single scrotal sac....and even then you're left with something that's not going to let you 'pass' in the locker room half the time (ie: doesn't look enough like a bio male's equipment...at least to me).

I've never used a packy or anything like that. I never felt I needed one...as I mentioned, I made peace with the fact that I would never be like a 100% biological male...not until the lower surgeries improve drastically and become less costly. But I view myself as male, my partner does, my family does, and society does...that's all that matters to me. I'm a guy with a vagina...and that's just fine with me. I don't hate vagina (I'm bi)...I don't think chick genitals are gross or ugly or anything like that...even on myself. Now don't get me wrong, I would love to have a penis and balls and all of that, but not at the risk of complications, lack of sensation, lack of -looking- natural, cost, ect. I would much rather be happy...and I was before I got my metoid (now I feel like I'm a herm, locked in some genital limbo...extremely unhappy and just wishing the Doc will reverse it so that I can be happy with myself and my body again).

But as I said...everyone's different. Some guys -need- the lower surgery to feel complete and they don't care about the outcomes provided it's better than what they had before. I didn't (which should've been a red flag to my psychologist, but that's a moot point) I did it because of the potential to penetrate my partner with my own body and to look more masculine below the waist (and now that I have it I don't believe it accomplishes that satisfactorily, at least for me and my body type)...essentially to make me happIER, not happy.

If you do decide to go for lower surgery just make sure you do it because you feel it's necessary. I know at the time we don't think about the risks or complications...we want to think everything will go great and we'll be fine and we'll be one of those lucky few where everything is just PERFECT. Rarely is that the case. The surgeries don't accomplish the same results for everyone...on one guy it may look great, he may even look close to a bio male, but on another guy (even with the exact same surgery from the exact same surgeon), it may not accomplish that...differences in body type play a HUGE role in how it'll look on you compared to the photos you see and compare to. Make sure you get letters of referral (2) from therapists who've had trans patients before. It's their job to pick up on anything that may give them the impression that you're doing the surgery for the wrong reason (and thus it may not be the right choice)...obviously, if you want it, you're not going to think it's not for you---everyone is optimistic about these things. So just make sure you do it right if you're going to do it. Personally...I'd rather just accept my chick genitals and be grateful for the fact that I'm a very unique individual who is a man, but gets to have the additional pleasure of having chick genitals.

And I think it's a very guy way of thinking too. Ask any straight guy what he'd do if he woke up with boobs tomorrow, and 9 times out of 10, they'll tell you they'd play with them, not have them lopped off. =)

Thanks for all of that info, discarded.

I'm barely contemplating hormones, and after visiting all the before and after sites for bottom surgery i don't think i'd do it.  i'd probably be happy with a large clit.  I can't imagine having a higher sex drive than i already do, though, lol.  Lack of male genitals is something i haven't really ever come to terms with even though i'd say that most of my life as a straight woman has been okay.  And i know that surgery won't change that at all.  I'll probably be happy with a soft packy for day and a larger more realistic one for ehem, play (even if it's by myself!!)  I love rubbing dildos with my hands as if it were mine...(probably tmi).

I'm not dating now as a straight female, so i'm not sure what my options would be as a gay male.  knowing tops might like me would be a plus, or bi's.  this is a world i'm so unfamiliar with; i probably would have had more issues with my body had i been attracted to women instead of men.

I'm still at the 'omg, what am i even contemplating??' phase, so all of your personal experience has been helpful.  I'm sorry your bottom surgery didn't go as well as hoped, and that it can be fixed.

Jaye

I am a closeted bisexual mtf, but I just wanted to say that I adore you guys. A couple of the best relationships of my life were with ftm guys... I know I probably don't technically count as a "guy," but I still present as male and did so with the ftm guys I dated...

Resurrecting this topic just to say thank you Brady.  I'm not going to lie; your post made me cry.  I attempted my only relationship with a guy a few years ago and quickly ended it.  He was a great guy, but I found that I couldn't date him as a girl and couldn't bring myself to talk to him.  I'm bi and honestly terrified of transitioning.  I'm afraid of ending up in this limbo of "you're not straight, you're not gay, you're not a girl, you're not a guy."  It's really nice to hear a case where this isn't true.  I hope that things are working well for you.

Also, discarded, your last line made me crack up.

LOL at what I wrote way back when!!

Here I am, 2.5 yrs on T, post top and lower surgery.  Who'd a thunk it?!


Jay

I believe that while some gay guys are gay completely for bio guys, there does exist gay guys who see all of you, who you are on the inside and who you are on the outside. My FTM friend whose only 16 had a boyfriend =) I'm very happy for them and it's maded me think, well if he can find someone, so can I. You don't need every gay guy to look at you and see you as the man you are, you just need to find that special one =)

Quote from: Fie on October 27, 2010, 10:46:06 PM
I believe that while some gay guys are gay completely for bio guys, there does exist gay guys who see all of you, who you are on the inside and who you are on the outside. My FTM friend whose only 16 had a boyfriend =) I'm very happy for them and it's maded me think, well if he can find someone, so can I. You don't need every gay guy to look at you and see you as the man you are, you just need to find that special one =)

well...I don't know...not all of us are looking for a committed relationship right away

Quote from: kyril on October 27, 2010, 11:57:31 PM
well...I don't know...not all of us are looking for a committed relationship right away

That's true 

Quote from: Fie on October 27, 2010, 10:46:06 PM
You don't need every gay guy to look at you and see you as the man you are, you just need to find that special one =)

...or two.  Or three. 




Or four, or five or six   

or seventy-two...

Heh, you are obviously more ambitious than the rest of us, kyril.

This is a really helpful topic for me, thanks for dredging it up Lee. I'm super worried about this exact thing, as I have dated gay men in the past and usually it doesn't work out because of my lack of male genitals. I guess I will just keep hoping that I'll eventually find a guy who accepts me as I am. Or 72 of them.

Let's set some ground rules here folks; if anyone finds a pack of 72 great guys who don't care, you are hereby required to share.

Thank you.  That is all.

I didn't mean I wanted them all at the same time!

Quote from: kyril on October 28, 2010, 08:26:36 PM
I didn't mean I wanted them all at the same time!

DEATH BY SNOO-SNOO!

Would be nice to know where one could find of these gay guys that would accept FTMs. I haven't had much luck finding gay guys, let alone accepting ones.

All over the Internet. I suppose you could find them where gay guys congregate in meatspace, but the nice thing about the Internet is that it encourages people to have a frank conversation about what they do/don't like and want right away before there's even the slightest potential for misunderstandings or feelings of being misled.

It's weird, I could never tolerate the concept of Internet dating/hookups as a "straight woman." Just the way straight guys behave online is...creepy. Gay guys, though, are totally cool, very direct and straightforward and upfront. And there's no risk with early disclosure as long as your profile doesn't reveal your identity (low risk if you use face pics...I use face pics because I can't think of any way to produce appealing body shots, but you might be able to)