Some people think that being born with a penis makes them a man. Others think super masculinity makes them a man. And others think certain habits make them a man, such as drinking beer, watching sports, and scratching their crothes.

But I think that's all wrong. You can be feminine, you can like pink and rainbows, you can drink wine, and watch sewing shows but you'll still be a man.

I was raised around a real "man". Thankfully, he's set a good example. He's very respectful, he's independent, he works hard to support his family. He's stuck by my family's side through thick and thin. When someone causes a problem he confronts it and tries to fix it for us. He takes responsibility for himself and his actions. I think that this is what makes a man. Someone who's not afraid to love you and show it. Someone who just wants you to be happy. Someone who will stick up for you when people try to put you down. Someone who will fight for you when there's a threat. My dad is a real man. He may not like sports, he may not like drinking, hell he may not be a super macho man but he is my dad and he didn't have to be and that right there makes him a man. Taking on the responsibility of another guy's kid and taking careof a family.

And for this, I am thankful.
I only hope I can be as great a dad as he. And I hope that I can live up to be at least half the man he has set out to be.

A penis, masculinity, and "man" habits don't make you a man. Just remember that the next time you think, or someone tells you, that you're not man enough.

I think everything you listed can apply to women as well, and I know several strong women who fit the description.  Those are important qualities for any upstanding adult, regardless of gender, and I'm sure there are plenty of women who would take offense at those characteristics being considered manly.  But I don't have a better idea of what a man is either. . .

Quote from: Ilan Reshon on October 28, 2010, 08:12:30 PM
I think everything you listed can apply to women as well, and I know several strong women who fit the description.  Those are important qualities for any upstanding adult, regardless of gender, and I'm sure there are plenty of women who would take offense at those characteristics being considered manly.  But I don't have a better idea of what a man is either. . .

but women don't usually have the problem to be regarded unmanly if they aren't boozers 
no kidding, but it's definitely something that way. i can't quite explain it in english, i'll think about it and try tomorrow. although i can't quite explain it in my native, but i got an idea. more of a feeling. geez^^

I think the best way to define a man (or a woman, by such means) is however that person defines themself.

(Oh boy, about this, 90%+ humanity, me included, has at least some work to do about this)

Quote from: A on October 28, 2010, 08:44:35 PM
I think the best way to define a man (or a woman, by such means) is however that person defines themself.

(Oh boy, about this, 90%+ humanity, me included, has at least some work to do about this)

I agree with this.  I fit so many more female stereotypes than I do male stereotypes, but I'm male regardless.

Honestly, gender is a social construct and it is whatever you were raised to believe it is.

EDIT: Or it is whatever you decide it is as well. There are no set characteristcs, qualities, etc.

I like the movie "The Butch Factor" on this topic, it's about very masculine and very feminine gays. And I liked how the really tough guys admitted that the flamboyant gays actually learn first of how to be a man and survive and the teasing and beating up, while the "macho" guys can hide behind their appearance.

But I think it's not possible to ask the question "what makes a man" unbiasedly in this time. Women can do same things as man, but will be on the physical side regarded as butch, or if they do something really noble, they will be seen as "unselfish" and "sacrificing".

Quote from: Wolf Man on October 28, 2010, 09:43:52 PM
Honestly, gender is a social construct and it is whatever you were raised to believe it is.

EDIT: Or it is whatever you decide it is as well. There are no set characteristcs, qualities, etc.

This. Although, if gender were JUST a social construct then there probably wouldn't be trans people. I think it's an identity and social construct. Identities are needed to form communities and keep a person sane.

duh. 

Quote from: Femboy on October 28, 2010, 06:54:23 PM
You can be feminine, you can like pink and rainbows, you can drink wine, and watch sewing shows but you'll still be a man.

Yes.  I do hope my mom comes around some day.  She was going on the other day about how guys who wear makeup "might be male, but they're not MEN."  Apparently being less than macho also makes you not a man.  -sigh-

Well what makes a man a man?
What makes 50% of the world population belong to that group?

What makes a good man, or good person, that I could anser. But not what makes a man.

Quote from: Nygeel on October 29, 2010, 08:48:21 AM
This. Although, if gender were JUST a social construct then there probably wouldn't be trans people. I think it's an identity and social construct. Identities are needed to form communities and keep a person sane.

Not only this, I think there is also something like inner body map and body match or don't match. Ab bit like phantom limb feeling. I did not get rid of that problem since starting puberty no matter how I tried (in my case, it's not that focused on the genitals).

Gender is a deeply rooted social construct. Hence relating to identity as you said Nygeel.

I find that transsexual is what the word imples. Sex. Sex and Gender are two different things. As for gender fluid people, they have simply found there way out of the gender box that is so deeply rooted into us from the very day that we're born. This is why feminine and masculine exist. There is no set thing for any person.

I feel that my issue is my sex and not my gender. I made it through in "girl" mode as a masculine person, but here I am wishing that I didn't have things that apply directly to the sex which I was born to.

Not ranting here, just my knowledge and some opinion.

Wolf Man: It could also be applied that sex is also a social construct (given the same/similar prospective of gender). You weren't exactly born into a sex, you were assigned it. Doctor looked at your genitals at birth and made the claim "it's a girl" then checked off the "female" box. Genitals being all ambiguous and what not...what makes a male body a male body, what makes a female body a female body?

<.<
>.>
Yeaaa, this thread might be hijacked by gender theory...

Even before I knew much about gender identity and gender expression, I had a lot of respect for guys who could cross-dress or otherwise act feminine in public, in a situation where it's not expected, and do so with confidence.  Especially straight guys (because it's less accepted).  I saw it as a sign of being secure in one's identity.  And what makes a real man or woman?  Knowing who you are and feeling good about it is a big part of it.

Nygeel:
Well I don't think sex is only a society's construct and doesn't exist outside of society. Indeed there are physical differences between females and males, though the line is a bit blurry.

I had terrarium pets and for some species, it made sense to sex your pets right if you wanted them to survive. For these species, you could say that what makes a man is that the adult males defend their territory against other adult males (while the females have no issue sharing their territory). Also, kids tended to get bullied by adults of both sexes, so you had to put them apart, and they did not always have much tolerance for other species.

For other species (giant millipedes), there were no different gender roles, both behaved the same - no territory issues, no racism (speciesm?) between different giant millipede species, and all lived together in peace & harmony. Only difference was that the males ran after the females for a flirt, not vice versa (and I never saw any gay or lesbian flirts or sex acts in my millipede terrariums). However, if the ladies wanted it too, then they both behaved almost the same during sex and after sex, both were hungry and had a good meal. Only difference was the climax: the guy takes out his sperm package from a pocket, handles it over to the girl and she stuffs it into her pocket. By the way, millipede sex takes several hours, it's very cute, slow and intense and they kiss one another, stroke one another tenderly with their antennae, and cuddle a lot with their hundreds of legs. I want to be a giant millipede in my next life, these are really nice hippie species.

Well as a terrarium aficionado it kind of annoys me if people come to me with this ivory tower theory that sex is a pure society's construct, or gender. When I think about the dramatic iguana war in one terrarium after I sexed one pet wrong, I'm sure there must be at least a bit of this gender role stuff wired in us. Unfortunately, humans are more like iguanas than like millipedes.

Moving the gender theory stuff to PMs....

Anyway, the OP seems to be about the difference between boys and men.  How being responsible and hard-working = being mature enough to be called a man.