One of my biggest worries about transition is being able to socialize as a guy.  I grew up in a family of girls, no dad, no really close male relatives.  I have social phobia and was a loner in school.  I've tried hanging out with some guys I know but they know me as female; I've stopped hanging with them because they keep flirting with me and it makes me uncomfortable and depressed.  And there's another problem, I talk about how I feel too much.  I don't hear too many guys around me doing that.  And there's female mannerisms/ways of talking that I'm having some trouble getting rid of.  I feel more comfortable hanging around women (unless they're talking about certain subjects); I can kind of forget I'm female around them but I'm really aware of it when around men.  I don't have great social skills to begin with and am not sure how well I'll be able to blend in as one of the guys.  I also do have an effeminate side--I like fashion design, sewing, beadwork, that kind of thing.  I'm not sure if I'll be able to fit in as a guy.  (Although, to be fair, I really don't feel like I fit in with girls either).

Thats ok, I know plenty of guys who have mostly or all girl friends, straight and gay. I guess just try to observe them in public and see how they act to try and get rid of some of the feminine manurisms, but other than that its really not hard. Guys are so easy to be around cuz theres never any drama like with girls. If your with a group of guys I'm sure you'll be able to get a feel for how they act, and will be able to easily blend in. Ive been called one of the boys by all my guy friends, way before I was ever out as trans, so I guess Ive never found it hard to socialize with them.

To be accepted into any group of people, you have to prove yourself and earn their respect.  How this works in groups of women is a mystery to me, but with guys, it's pretty straight-forward.  Just out-do them at something they're into.  Do something to make them admire / envy / respect you.  If they're into music, show that you know more about it than they do or can play better than they do.  But have a humble attitude about it - show what you've got, but don't boast because that comes across as insecure and snotty.  If you don't have any special skills or areas of expertise, it might not matter.  Being a fun person to be around goes a long way.  If you're good at making people laugh (with you, not at you) you'll be accepted.

And you're right - most guys don't talk about their feelings much.  At least not in the direct way that women do.  The general male attitude is one of relaxed stoicism combined with seeing the humor in things.  It's ok to express happiness and, to some extent, anger, but emotions like sadness are to be conquered or dealt with privately.  When guys do talk about their feelings, they do so in a more understated manner, and usually in the context of explaining what you have done or will do about it.  Like, "I was kinda down after my cat got hit by a car so I went out and drank enough to get my mind off it.  Then a stray cat followed me home from the bar, so I took it in and decided to keep it.  So, yeah, I got a new cat now!  What should I name it?"  Whereas a woman telling the same story would go into detail about just how sad she was and how meaningful and miraculous it was to take in the stray cat.

Of course these are just generalizations.  There's a lot of overlap between guys and girls in terms of almost everything.

I hope you don't take this as a means to instill doubt in you, but maybe you're cut it to be either? There are some TG people who feel that they're comfortable with being either a boy or a girl, like myself.

I think as far as the gamut of emotions goes, a lot of posters here are correct with how men express themselves about their emotions, which is, to not show emotion at all. I've tried to do this with my friends and they will not let up and tell me their emotions at all even though you pry a lot. For women, it's a lot easier to deal with these things and there's definitely that freedom of expression involved.

Bottom line, during my discovery of my girl side, I understood that unless I accept all my imperfections and decide that despite all of these, I'm still me -- coupled with acting on additional steps to make myself feel whole again -- I've got the right to live how I want regardless of what society views me as.

My best friend is a straight cis male and his friends are mostly girls.

Another straight cis guy I know is miserable in his new school because his roommates are, in his words, "boys." He's a really refined, mature, intelligent person, and the people on his floor are stereotypical guys that he absolutely cannot get along with.

I have friends like these two because they're a lot like me. I feel 100% male, but swaggering macho dudes make me nervous too. Real men be themselves, no matter what that entails. As long as you do that, you should make good, like-minded friends.

I feel you bro 

I'm pretty far from effeminate, but when it comes to my buds, I'm the fruitiest out of all of them. They talk about guns, and the military, cars, stuff I really can't relate to.

But real buds don't give a damn in you don't know what a 47'' is, or what year the cadillac was produced, they just think your a cool guy to hang around. Though talking about your emotions may make for a very awkward conversation. Guys just don't do that very often.

I've heard that male friendships tend to be based on shared interests and activities, whereas female friendships tend to be based on emotional bonding.

I enjoy queers most.

screw being "one of the boys" I've been there and its quite dull.

Depends on your social circle, and what sort of guys you're around as to what is considered normal behavior.

Maybe it's an age or cultural difference, but men can be a lot more emotional than expected in some regards. My coworkers are for the most part, married family men. They carry around pics of their kids and wives on their phones, and see no issue with expressing an emotional connection with their families. It's not seen as a weakness.

I've found that some are also a lot more physical than you'd think. I'm forever being backslapped! 

We've also been known to take someone aside to make sure everything is alright and cheer him up if he's looking a bit blegh. Men aren't always completely cold and self centered.

It's all down to watching the dynamics of the group you're around, and use that as a guideline.

Oh, learn to joke around and never be personally offended - making jokes at others expense is a form of bonding. You are expected to laugh and have a joking go back at 'em!

Be yourself. Men are very easy to get along with. They tend to accept other men easily, and are a lot more tolerant of different personalities. I'm a bit weird myself (I'm also undersocialized - though all my socialization has been with men), but still accepted as one of the guys. Just don't be a prick and you'll do alright.

One thing I've yet to figure out though - I can't work out what it "means" when a (straight, cis) man sticks his tongue out at you in a cute manner, when you are parting ways. Normally, male gestures have a meaning. This one I can't figure out.

I can understand this. When I am in groups of mostly guys, I tend to notice how feminine I am physically. It's generally my voice that bothers me the most. I'm definitely psychologically masculine enough, it's just the physical aspects. This makes me just that more eager to transition. When that happens, though, I usually try and remind myself how close I am to being able to go on T, and move into an environment with more of a gender mix.

see no issue with expressing an emotional connection with their families. It's not seen as a weakness.
It's only seen as weakness when you get all emotional about things you are not directly involved with.  It's OK to be all that way about family, I've seen huge bikers cry when their dog died.  Actually most guys would disconnect with other guys who didn't feel that way about their dog.  People involved with politics or art get all emotional about that.  Don' think guys get emotional, watch the winning and losing teams in the World Series get interviewed when it ends.

I've found that some are also a lot more physical than you'd think.
I've always assumed that men are basically a lot more physical, it's not the PDA stuff girls do, it's more like a hockey game of body checks on dry land - but contact is contact.

never be personally offended - making jokes at others expense is a form of bonding. You are expected to laugh and have a joking go back at 'em!
never be personally offended - is damn good advice for all people, all the time.  As we say, "Don't take it personally, it's business, no, really, don't take anything personally it's show business."  For the most part we don't insult people we don't like.  We ignore them.  But really, learn what boxers know, you roll with the punches, give as good as you get and you get by.

Just don't be a prick and you'll do alright.
Again, good advice for all people in all seasons for all reasons.  And, in it's deepest heart of hearts being a prick is just a highly refined sense of self-centeredness.  And you know why guys don't like pricks?  Cause a prick is going to rat out the group to help themselves.  They are going to cut and run as soon as its their best interest to do so.  And in any group/gang/crew of guys, the group/gang/team/crew is ALLWAYS more important.

I'm definitely psychologically masculine enough, it's just the physical aspects.
But guys tend not to care about the psychological aspects, that's all 'theory' and 'philosophy' stuff, but the physical is the real.  They care about you holding up your end of the bargain.  Can you and do you do just as much work as everyone else (hint: doing even more is better, you get respect for that).  If we have got your back do you have ours?  After all, why should I risk for you if you're unable or unwilling to do the same for me.  Try not to be the weakest link.

He's a really refined, mature, intelligent person, and the people on his floor are stereotypical guys
All the guys I work with are refined, mature, intelligent persons, and a bigger bunch of stereotypical guys would be hard to find.  I don't see those things as mutually exclusive.  Last summer 4 of us were moving a couple hundred benches a few hundred yards on one day, and back the next.  All sorts of sports talks and bitching about work occurred.  But there was also an amazing conversation about which art museum are the best in the world, and between the four of us at least one had been to just about every one of them from Shanghai to New York to Paris to Cario to Russia and Greece.  It was pretty impressive, at least to me, that between the four of us sweating out in the sun we had been to the top 30 or so art museums.

Quote from: tekla on November 01, 2010, 01:27:25 AM
never be personally offended - making jokes at others expense is a form of bonding. You are expected to laugh and have a joking go back at 'em!
never be personally offended - is damn good advice for all people, all the time.  As we say, "Don't take it personally, it's business, no, really, don't take anything personally it's show business."  For the most part we don't insult people we don't like.  We ignore them.  But really, learn what boxers know, you roll with the punches, give as good as you get and you get by.

This works with guys, and to some extent in mixed company. But groups of women don't generally play "insult comedy" - cutting remarks and dry sarcasm, in groups of women, are usually intended to be personally hurtful. Among guys, they're not - they're like verbal play-fighting, just another form of bonding. Someone who's mostly attuned to how women communicate might not realize that.

I'd say the biggest thing to adapt to if you want to be "one of the boys" among straight men is that virtually everything of social or emotional consequence is expressed in a sort of ritualized code. It's pretty simple if you're looking for it, but (contrary to stereotype) straight guys actually have to be a lot more sensitive to nonverbal/coded cues. (It's just that women typically drop their hints in the wrong language)

The basics:
When a guy tells a funny story, he's trying to amuse and possibly impress people, but he's also trying to communicate the kind of person he is/wants to be seen as.

When he complains about his wife being too demanding/smothering, he's actually bragging that he has one who cares about him.

When he complains about his job, he's actually bragging about his work ethic and level of responsibility.

When he makes a passing offhand comment about something bad that happened to him, he's asking for support (preferably in the form of funny stories that relate to what he's going through, maybe with some serious advice thrown in).

When he talks about cars, sports, or other standardized stereotypical "guy stuff" outside of a context where it's relevant, he's making small talk and trying to find areas of common interest, so you can redirect the conversation; the most effective way is with a funny story tangentially related to whatever he was talking about.

When he insults you, he's saying that he likes you enough to bother trying to make fun of you.

"War stories" (not limited to actual war - anything involving adrenaline and physical danger) are a competition. Bloodier, more dangerous, more exotic, weirder stories with more f'd up situations win. Truth is moderately flexible (but don't just make stuff up).

Sex stories are the same, but don't get too graphic - unlike in the war stories, you leave most sexual details to the imagination. And your wife is off limits for competition sex stories, unless she figures prominently in a really good one (e.g. threesome).

And you can't go too wrong by being the quiet type at first. Guys would generally prefer a quiet guy who has to be prodded into talking more over a loud and obnoxious guy who takes up too much space in the conversation.