Quote from: Alessandro on November 01, 2010, 06:41:00 PM
After reading this I just checked and found she has used one of my pictures too.  I'm really shocked.  So I've taken all my pictures off the internet.  Never heard or read the like of it before.

she used more recently? I'm always tempted to check her blog out to see if she's finally used one of my pics.. because she's used pics from all arouny my posts before.. but never actually uses me.. lolz. However I'm forbidden from checking out her blog anymore cuz it just pisses me off.

Quote from: Sharky on November 01, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
So reading/watching gay anime porn makes straight tomboy girls think they are trans 

I could imagine, in some extreme cases, yes.

We have a TS support group in my region which is somewhat weird, but not completely silly. Usually, the group chief keeps away ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and weirdos so that they don't consume the precious time. Once, this did not work, as the group chief was ill or on vacation. A new person came, together with wife. (I use singular "they" from now on) Well this person thought they were transsexual cause they had watched lots of lesbian porn lately, and when jerking off to it, it felt physically somewhat different than when jerking off to straight porn, and they also loved to imagine they were one of the girls doing the stuff there. That's how they got the idea that they were transsexual.

They could not relate to anything MTFs told of their own past about not feeling at ease in their body, feeling like they were in the wrong body/body had developped wrongly, being forced into gender roles that did not fit to their inner beings, identifying as girls not boys, not liking wrong pronouns etc. Well, NONE of that applied to this new visitor. They were puzzled at hearing these things, did not know what that was, and said - no, I didn't ever have any of that. Bluntly, honestly. Well and this person had already been taking hormones clandestinally for 3 months. I think this person had just elaborated their masturbation technique or improved their perception so that new physical sensations came up, and might have been a crossdreamer as well (i. e. getting off on imagining oneself as a person of the other sex). But transsexual? Rather not.

Well the other people of that group were like WTF? looking at one another, but politely asked this person to go see a gender therapist to sort out what's really going on, and that taking hormones without check-ups can be dangerous so this should get checked as well, by an endocrinologist.

So yes, I've seen weird things happen and on the face of the planet, there are lots of people who tend to fool themselves. Be it just to avoid admitting that they have somewhat original fetishes or sex fantasies. Good thing about it, it shows that being transsexual is not shunned at as much as it used to be, if they prefer this explanation. Bad thing is if they go the whole transition path and jump through the hoops, as physical transition would turn them into transsexuals. And living in a wrong body and wrong gender is so awful I don't even wish this for my worst enemies.

So I can imagine some female gay porn/erotica enthusiast go through the whole trans path for such bad reasons, yes. You can always fool your therapist, or hide things away from them, depending on how sensitive they are. And the current Standards of Care system with its hoops to jump through does not help here to sort these cases out, as long as people are stubborn enough and good at lying. For many people, trans or not, the system does not encourage taking it seriously and respecting it, it rather presents as nasty hoops.

Hello all  I'm the creator of TomboyRevolution; bluetraveler was kind enough to show me to this thread after posting a link to the blog here.

The people I'm trying to reach with my blog are certainly a very very small (and rather young) minority, and even fewer of them go so far as to identify as FtM. As is often the case with authors of sites like these, I once believed I was FtM and later realized that I was not. But rather than assuming that all transgendered people have identical experiences to mine, I assumed I was a very odd isolated case. I've met and spoken with far too many FtM and MtF people to assume that transsexuality "isn't real" (or is only a fetish) or anything so repulsively closed-minded.

It wasn't until much later that I started meeting the sorts of people to whom I'm writing and realized that my case was not an isolated incident. My observations about this trend sparked a lot of internet discussion and someone recommended a blog, just so others could reliably find the same information.

I really think it's critical to distinguish between legitimate FtMs, and women who simply have very deeply ingrained internalized misogyny. It does nobody any good when self-hating straight women become confused with actual FtMs.

In communities of women who like yaoi (yaoi is basically idealized gay male romance stories in cartoon/comic form) sexism is sadly somewhat common, and most of the people to whom the blog is directed are identifiable because they're often shockingly sexist ("boys can do this, girls can't...women are all like THIS and men are all like THAT...when guys do this it's hot, when girls do this it's disgusting. Good thing I'm a guy!")

I'm not even sure the blog applies to anyone on a forum like this (likely not) but I'm ready for feedback or questions/criticisms if anyone is interested Apologies in advance if I've offended anyone.

Hi Sho,

I think the work you do is very important, and I get what you wrote, and that's absolutely okay what you write. I never thought your blog would be for bashing FTMs or something like this, just to help people sort themselves out if they're on the wrong track. Sure, the shrinks write a lot about differential diagnoses and things which may get confused with being transsexual. But the internet offers possibilities for people to meet and to figure out what's the matter with them over thousands of miles, and I think it's much more progressive, less transphobic and more up-to-date than many of the shrinks' publications for several reasons.

It's also important for trans people to know about these things when they meet other people who are questioning themselves. Not to talk them into anything, just to tell them - listen, there are transsexuals, but there are also genderqueers, girl->-bleeped-<-s, etc., it's not all black and white, try to figure out what suits you best BEFORE you take hormones, go full-time and get surgery. As these measures are quite extreme. Sometimes, it's just a silly word and definition lacking, which makes people stay confused for long. Boxes are just boxes, but they may help as an orientation. 

It just makes me wonder if your blog will exist for long, as it was a phase in your life and you might not want to write tons of things about it for decades. In case you lose interest in the future, you might hand the blog over to somebody else so it doesn't get lost.

I didn't think there was anything "wrong" with the blog and I certainly wasn't offended by it. And I also think that it's very good to have other viewpoints here. I AM one of those viewpoints (and I have taken some ->-bleeped-<- for it because I happened to be "too vocal" about a certain topic).

Bluetraveler experienced something in her life that was really important to her and now she wants to share with others who might be in the same "boat". I get that. And like I said, I'm all for other viewpoints because I myself have one that's contrary to other people on here. I think it's important for information to be out there and for people's unique stories to be told. Like I said, I think there's a huge variation of possibilities when it comes to gender identity.

Yeah, I think your blog is very helpful Sho and you are asking an important question of people without being hateful towards the trans community (unlike the blogger previously mentioned). 

It certainly made me have a think, because several years ago all of that would have applied to me.  Also the thing about fetishalisation that Fencesitter posted has made me think.  Because I very much am sexually attracted to gay men and enjoy sex only in that context.  Sadly enough though my body has never been quite right and the feelings have been getting worse and worse up until this point.  As much as I would like to find a way out of transitioning and a way to be comfortable female I just don't think it is possible for me.  But for anybody who doesn't experience gender dysphoria, get out if you can!

I don't want to transition to be the dashing, devilishly handsome man who makes the ladies swoon. I want to transition because I am sick and tired of having to wake up in the wrong body, of that dreadful feeling when one is reminded of things that shouldn't be there, of people constantly mistaking me for a girl, of hearing the squeaky voice and feeling the chest-blobs and all that stuff.

My feelings awoke in puberty, so am I really trans, though?

I don't see anything wrong with boys doing "girly" things and girls doing "boyish" things, it's just that I am not a tomboy or a butch; I'm a boy. Not a boyish girl, not a mannish woman, just a boy.

My girlfriend loved yaoi and got me to read gravitation, and yaoi actually set off my dysphoria and drove me to try to pass more often; I don't even know why, I prefer heterosexual pairings and always have, maybe it was because these "men" looked androgynous or even girly and these girls were still accepting them as men so I thought maybe I had a chance. Even then I wasn't trying to look like a bishie; more like a male goth/punk; black trench coats, long hair, fingerless black gloves LOL my highschool tool phase. Should have been in aisle five at home depot. I think the making out after reading it/while reading it contributed, even thinking about being with a woman the way I look now will set me off on the "I feel totally wrong, not a lesbian etc" front. It probably didn't help that my girlfriend kept telling me, albeit in a roundabout way, that her favorite thing about me was my masculine carriage and body language (She kept saying I reminded her of some Eclipse guy from something or other, I remember he was a classy adult demon teacher or some ->-bleeped-<--- more than creepily enough one of my long-time friends adopted the name of his partner as her online tag, that gave me the jibblies). At the time I actually did assume I was a girl->-bleeped-<-* because a lot of the things "other" rabid yaoi fans (considering I ceased giving a flying f*** about yaoi the second I broke up with this girl I think I was really a fan of the cuddles) were saying were things I could relate to as stuff that gave me acute dysphoric feelings or anger (expectations about women, etc) despite that they were very obviously ladies and OK with it, I didn't know they'd never felt that way before becoming yaoi fans, that was never discussed. The rampant sexism pissed me off and I kept telling them they were making it harder on everyone to behave that way. Most of them grew out of it by now though, LOL


Point being, yaoi confusion goes both ways I'm afraid.


*now I think about it more, also because when my friend showed me step by step pics of the bottom surgery procedure and I said I'd be scared to do it and didn't want to, we decided I couldn't be trans if I didn't want the surgery and another friend sick of dealing with girl->-bleeped-<-s thought I was a girl->-bleeped-<- too; ugh~

I haven't had a chance to go over the site in detail, but from what I see I think it is a very good site.

Transitioning is the LAST thing a person should do.  If there is any other possible way of dealing with the feelings of dysphoria then they should do that.  And I agree that anyone who is thinking about it look at every possible alternative available.  That is one of the reasons that therapy plays such a big part in the process.  And having a place for someone view the alternatives is a very good idea.

We here at Susan's and other trans sites, by definition attract people who ARE trans and who are or have transitioned, but that does not mean that this is the answer for everyone. And I would counsel anyone thinking about it to see what alternatives are out there.

I want to look at it more when I have a chance, but from what I see right now it is a very good site.

Thank you!

-Sandy

Quote from: insideontheoutside on November 01, 2010, 02:40:08 PMBut there are those of us who, from the earliest memories were not female at all - yet physically have female bits. For us, the confusion was never "WHO I am" (male or female? ...  because it was always male) but rather "WHY I am" (why do I have this body and not the one that matches my brain?)

This. I've always known I was a guy. For a long time I surrendered to my fate and tried to be a girl, but even then I knew I was a guy and mentally talked to myself as a male identity. There's a huge difference between tomboys and transmen.

Then I found out that I don't have to surrender to my situation. I can transition and gain the body (mostly) I've always wanted. I could finally have the body I was meant to have. People could see me for the person I really am and acknowledge it. I could be the person I really am. This is why I chose transition. To take off the mask and become the real me. I've waited all my life for this.

Bluetraveler, I appreciate you sharing these things and I'm positive there are some out there who aren't sure if they're transsexual or not. This is why you do some serious soul-searching and don't rush into transition. However, just because you thought you were transsexual but ended up not being doesn't mean the majority of us are that way. Frankly, I find this conclusion insulting- including the stereotypes in that blog.

If anyone's not sure if they're transsexual or not think things over and don't rush into anything. The true answer will come to you. Transition is very hard and is an unknown road. You never know what will happen, what other's reactions will be or where you'll end up. However, no matter the pain or what's put up on the table, if you are transsexual then being able to be your true self is worth it. Most likely you will lose something... but you'll again yourself.

Quote from: Sandy on November 02, 2010, 06:02:50 AM
I haven't had a chance to go over the site in detail, but from what I see I think it is a very good site.Transitioning is the LAST thing a person should do.  If there is any other possible way of dealing with the feelings of dysphoria then they should do that.  And I agree that anyone who is thinking about it look at every possible alternative available.  That is one of the reasons that therapy plays such a big part in the process.  And having a place for someone view the alternatives is a very good idea.

We here at Susan's and other trans sites, by definition attract people who ARE trans and who are or have transitioned, but that does not mean that this is the answer for everyone. And I would counsel anyone thinking about it to see what alternatives are out there.
-Sandy

Totally agree with Sandy. 

Jay

I had a chance to glance over the site, and I agree that it's good; it provides some important food for thought.

Ironically, I currently have achieved that 'bishounen' look (ngh) and I'm trying to push past it so I can look distinctly male. It's why I work so hard at building muscles and hoping daily that I'll get a little more facial hair, and why I want that jaw/chin implant. Reading it kind of reaffirmed my trans feelings.

Anyway, I'm glad to see reasonable discourse on this matter. It is constructive and important, because there definitely are people who should NOT transition but you can't just point fingers and say "you can, but you cannot". Bullying or shaming people gets nowhere, but providing thoughtful commentary can do a lot of good.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on the site Of course it's not addressed to people who are transgendered per se, but those who might misidentify as such, so I really wanted to know if I was casting too broad of a "net" when trying to explain to people that this and that behavior don't necessarily make them trans. (If anyone thinks any observations on the blog are indicating this sort of thing, please let me know.)

I think the people to whom the blog applies are young girls suffering from dysphoria, and who see their gay-male-romances (either reading them, or in extreme cases wanting to participate in them) as being a way to avoid the discomfort they have with their bodies and their sexuality. But it's not unusual for people to have quite extreme discomfort with their bodies and this can occur separately from being transgendered, like Fencesitter's friend.

I think one of the critical differences is that the dysphoria in these special cases often does not begin until their teens, and many of these people start by being deeply dissatisfied with themselves and only later come to conclude that changing their gender will help them. This is why, I think, that the "yaoi fan" aspect is so important, even though it narrows down the group to whom I'm speaking -- because these are generally people to whom the idea of transition (or of having a brain/body gender discrepancy) had never occurred prior to reading this sort of fiction.

And for a variety of reasons yaoi makes women feel worse about themselves, often to the degree that its fan will furiously decry any attempt to add any heterosexual elements to the stories -- several series do exclude female characters completely. (I'm sorry Aegir had a negative experience with yaoi -- it does make a lot of people's dysphoria worse.)

(Radar, if you're willing to point out which stereotypes you found offensive, I'd appreciate it. Since I started the blog I've already changed some content based on other readers' feedback.)

I just don't like it when people try to generalize being transsexual and whether you are one or not. Like if you have interest in certain things then you can't be transsexual. The thing is nobody can tell anyone if they're transsexual or not... only the person can know.

In retrospect I wasn't so much upset with your blog or what it said, just the idea of generalizing in particular. Almost all of our lives we've been dismissed, told we're crazy or sick and are just confused or laughed at. Yes, there are those out there confused and not sure if they're transsexual. For them they need to look very closely at all aspects and find out what's really going on before going too deep into transition because once you've gone far enough there's little turning back. But for people like me who have gone through this for 30+ years before transition, trust me, we know.

I guess that's why I hate generalizing so much. I was foolish to wait so long out of fear and ignorance from others. I don't want that to happen to a younger guy. People try to plant seeds of doubt, fear and shame into us all our lives for feeling this way. When people say you can't or most likely aren't really trans because of "x" that bothers me. We all have our own definition of what makes a man (or woman).

I will admit I'm ignorant on yaoi and don't understand it's dynamics. I don't understand how a girl, who's not transsexual, would want to transition into a man because of it. It's one thing to occasionally fantasize about it, but to go so far as to work on physically becoming a man when not a transsexual I don't understand. Most women are unhappy with their bodies and some obsess about changing it to how they want it (dieting, exercising, plastic surgery. ect.). However, almost all of them are not transsexuals (our percentage is very low).

But like I said I don't know much about yaoi or the phenomenon around it, but evidently this must happen since it's been documented. If someone has doubts about being transsexual then they need to do their research. However, many of us have buried it inside and tried to deny it for so long due to outside influences. It's a tricky slope and it's a journey of discovery each must do on their own and make their own decisions. That's why I hate it when someone is dismissed and told they're not a transsexual after they realize they truly are. I'm not saying you are doing this, because you bring up good points and things someone who's not sure can think about. I just hate people's and society's generalisations overall. They would rather believe you're wrong than accept that transsexualism is real and happens. It destroys their neat boxed-in concept of the world.

I can actually understand all of this, not from personal experience but more so look at the people I have seen over the 9 years I was apart of the Japanese anime/manga industry. It does happen. I have a group of female friends who constantly cross dress and tries to get themselves into weird sexual situation usually with another female who is also a fangirl. They don't want to transition, they're just so into whatever it is they're watching/reading that they just become it.

To be honest, the girls who become these "yaoi" fangirls, at least from what I have seen, are the ones who were pretty much socially awkward from the beginning. Kind of like they're withdrawn. To sum it up, it's like being a geek/nerd. Can't function well with normal society. Can't hold a conversation unless it's about whatever subject they're interested in, etc.

I know for sure that I'm not one of these. I read yaoi in order to sell it to people, never really for enjoyment. But it is very interesting what in general, the anime world makes fans do. I have never seen such a bigger psychological effect based around a genre of animation and comic books. Actually, the Japanese culture in general has a huge influence on many people.

Thanks for posting this blog.

Quote from: [CRYPT] Chris on November 03, 2010, 12:15:33 PM
I have a group of female friends who constantly cross dress and tries to get themselves into weird sexual situation usually with another female who is also a fangirl. They don't want to transition, they're just so into whatever it is they're watching/reading that they just become it.

Um, what do you mean by this and what do you mean by 'wierd'?  Cos I do something similar, I like roleplaying and stuff with my partner.  But I don't see it as wierd or a problem when someone wants to become something in particular sexually.  For me it helps me get past my dysphoria.

Quote from: Alessandro on November 03, 2010, 02:03:50 PM
Um, what do you mean by this and what do you mean by 'wierd'?  Cos I do something similar, I like roleplaying and stuff with my partner.  But I don't see it as wierd or a problem when someone wants to become something in particular sexually.  For me it helps me get past my dysphoria.

Role play is cool with me. What I mean by weird is they...get over dramatic and tries to get themselves into not every day situation. For example...say one of them takes a fall, and ends up getting a small cut on her knee or w/e. She ends up making more than a big deal out of it until her "partner" helps her take care of that booboo...and they then have these weird...love moments that are seen in anime/manga.

That's what I mean by 'weird'. I can understand role play and all that, it's just they turn everyday life stuff to these dramatic situations and expects life to be like an anime they watch or a manga they have read.

Quote from: [CRYPT] Chris on November 04, 2010, 03:57:59 AM
Role play is cool with me. What I mean by weird is they...get over dramatic and tries to get themselves into not every day situation. For example...say one of them takes a fall, and ends up getting a small cut on her knee or w/e. She ends up making more than a big deal out of it until her "partner" helps her take care of that booboo...and they then have these weird...love moments that are seen in anime/manga.

That's what I mean by 'weird'. I can understand role play and all that, it's just they turn everyday life stuff to these dramatic situations and expects life to be like an anime they watch or a manga they have read.

Yeah, now you've explained it that is pretty wierd!  Those 'love moments' are pretty much what put me off yaoi in the first place.  It's unrealistic!

Interesting, the situation is a bit like this as well with some of the Fantasy etc. role players I've met in my life. Kinda weird. 

Quote from: Kvall on November 03, 2010, 11:17:30 PM
Why are we delayed or denied our medically necessary care because a tiny handful of cis people could get hurt?

No one is denying or delaying trans people treatment. I have never said nor advocated so. I'm not going in your house and stop you from injecting testosterone. And if one trans person got his transition delayed to better examine his motives, while one "cis" (I hate the term because it implies we are and have always been sure on what side we stand on) person by doing the same thing didn't have her life ruined, that's all good in my opinion. You by arguing the opposite sound callous, I'm afraid. After all, trans people are a tiny handful themselves, no?