My therapist sent a referral to CAMH in May of this year, and i finally have an appointment for December 10, 2010. I'm just wondering what to expect for the first visit. I know CAMH's rules regarding HRT, and how they want you to live as the preferred gender for a year before prescribing them. I'm just wondering what the first visit might consist of.

Thanks, Hayley.

I also have an upcoming consultation with the GIC at CAMH. However, I do have some previous experience there... I went to their child GID service.

The main lines of attack you can expect are (for the mtf): if you are attracted to males, be prepared to explain why you are not actually just a gay man. If you are attracted to females, be prepared to answer questions regarding autoerotic behaviour.

The main thing that you should know about CAMH is that they are not in the business of helping you. The entire goal of their clinic is to prevent you from transitioning by pretty much any means possible (you're too young to transition, you're too horny to transition, you don't understand the medical implications of transitioning, you won't pass in your target sex...)

However, if you can endure this for two years, and are living full time, you have the opportunity to have a surgery funded by the provincial government.

Other clinics might soon be able to do this (Sherbourne) but their waiting list for trans therapy is 2 years long. So in my opinion you should pursue both clinics and see which makes itself available first.

To put some of this in context for myself:

I am 19, and I have been living full time for the past 5 years. I have also been on HRT for this long. However, after my initial consultation, I will have to wait 1 extra year before  they will consider me as a candidate for surgery. And as I'm under 21, it's their policy not to treat me at all (I will have to see if this is true when I go there).

My main advice is to be prepared, straightforward about what you're looking for from them, and bring any physical evidence you have to support your case (I'm bringing half of my Ontario Student Record...)

So ... does anyone actually have any first hand experiences with consultation at the adult CAMH GIC? Before or after Maxine left?

Quote from: 4348 on November 04, 2010, 06:29:39 PMThe main thing that you should know about CAMH is that they are not in the business of helping you. The entire goal of their clinic is to prevent you from transitioning by pretty much any means possible (you're too young to transition, you're too horny to transition, you don't understand the medical implications of transitioning, you won't pass in your target sex...)

Actually, from what I'm hearing, that may be an outdated opinion.  I'm currently attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne, and the co-facilitator has said that many good changes are happening there.  Apparently, Maxine's replacement is very good, and the whole place is much more client-centered and helpful than in the past.  So far, for me, this is just hearsay, though, but I'm hearing it from multiple sources.  So don't dismiss CAMH just because of negative impressions - it's apparently improved a LOT.  I'm currently waiting to hear about my assessment appointment - I sent in my intake package Sept. 3, but apparently Maxine left mid-August, and her replacement didn't start until mid-Sept., so they're running a bit behind...

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on November 04, 2010, 06:35:36 PM
Actually, from what I'm hearing, that may be an outdated opinion.  I'm currently attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne, and the co-facilitator has said that many good changes are happening there.  Apparently, Maxine's replacement is very good, and the whole place is much more client-centered and helpful than in the past.

Oh, that sounds hopeful. I transitioned a while ago, so I've been sort of out of the loop about these kinds of things. I still think being prepared, direct, unambiguous and even a bit confrontational is the best though. No one should be scared of CAMH - far from it. But as far as I know, the fundamental policies (2 year RLE, minimum 1 year under supervision, no one under 21) haven't changed, so I may still get the shaft.

My appointments are at the end of this month, so I'll try to give an update on how it is.

Quote from: 4348 on November 04, 2010, 06:53:05 PMBut as far as I know, the fundamental policies (2 year RLE, minimum 1 year under supervision, no one under 21) haven't changed, so I may still get the shaft.

That's true, AFAIK, but for instance, their policy is 1 yr. RLE before they'll approve HRT, then a further year RLE before they'll approve SRS.  Okay, but you can access HRT without their approval, and you won't get penalized.  RLE without HRT is mind-bogglingly cruel and unusual punishment.  So, you go on HRT after their assessment (my plan), then do the RLE when the hormones have worked their magic, and I'm hoping they'll approve surgery after one year of RLE.  We'll see.  I will look forward to hearing your experience, and I really, REALLY hope I get my appointment letter soon...

Quote from: 4348 on November 04, 2010, 06:53:05 PMI still think being prepared, direct, unambiguous and even a bit confrontational is the best though. No one should be scared of CAMH - far from it.

I definitely agree with this, and it goes for no matter who you're dealing with.  What we go through, and how self-informed we need to be, we should be scared of NO-ONE... 

Thanks for the advice and help everyone. I'm really not expecting to get HRT through CAMH since I just went full time about 2 months ago, but we will see how my appointment goes.

Quote from: HayleyMcCombs on November 04, 2010, 10:30:37 PM...since I just went full time about 2 months ago...

Well, you didn't mention THAT little tidbit!  Kudo's, girl!  I'm jealous.  I'm just in the crossdressing-as-often-as-I-can phase, and my immediate family hasn't seen me dressed yet.  Soon, hopefully...

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on November 05, 2010, 06:26:36 AM
Well, you didn't mention THAT little tidbit!  Kudo's, girl!  I'm jealous.  I'm just in the crossdressing-as-often-as-I-can phase, and my immediate family hasn't seen me dressed yet.  Soon, hopefully...

Thanks, It's kinda confusing. I present as a female at school, and in public. I dress the same way and wear makeup at home, but my parent's still use my male name.

Quote from: HayleyMcCombs on November 02, 2010, 08:27:30 PM
I'm just wondering what the first visit might consist of.

For your initial visit you will speak with two clinicians, you should know who they are from your letter.

I met Dr Brown and Dr McIntosh. They are both new to the clinic (a few months and over a year respectively).

The interviews will mainly discuss your life history with respect to gender, from childhood to date (the older you are, the more you will have to discuss), including any relationships you have had, as well as some questions on sexual history and fantasy (but they don't linger on this). They will also ask questions about your mental health (depression, anger, anxiety), your social experience (hobbies and friends) and consumption of drugs (alcohol, cannabis and hard drugs). They will also ask questions about your family, and anybody you live with. The interviews last around an hour each.

After the interviews they discuss cases at an internal conference, both interviewers write their own evaluations, and they will send a letter one month later to your referring physician with a reccomendation to make a six-month follow up appointment.

Both of the clinicians who interviewed me were pleasant, they are typical shrinks, but I noticed Dr Brown asked me very open ended questions requiring me to elaborate on my own accord, and Dr McIntosh asked more specific questions.

As I mentioned, the clinicians were both new and don't carry a lot of the baggage of the older names like Dr Dickey or Ms Peterson.

However, the policies of the clinic with respect to treating trans people has not yet changed, and I will not be eligible for reccomendation for surgery, as despite transition at 14, I am only 19. I would in principle have to wait 2 more years.

This probably does not concern you if you are 20 or older, but I will elaborate a bit anyway. At the end of my interviews, I asked each of them what they made of the yearlong waiting period and the lower-age restriction of 21. They said they are still current policy. However, they also said that the policy is open to review in the new year. When I asked them if the policy review is routine (their policies haven't changed in 35 years, as their pamphlet boasts), they said the policy review was happening as a reflection of the change in staff of the clinic, and would be open to public input, so some or all of current policy may or may not change. They were very watchful of their language and could not tell me if anything would come of the policy review, but that they was some potential.

I am currently divided as to whether or not I should file a human rights complaint, to allege discrimination on the basis of age in the area of equal provision of services (age is defined as an age that is 18 or older). I want to have my concerns met at the upcoming policy review. I wonder what I ought to do.

Anyway as for both of your upcoming interviews, there should be nothing to worry about, just keep yourself composed and ready to answer questions honestly and intelligently.

I did not have any physical examination, but that could be because I am already on HRT.

Beware of the secretary, she's a total cow (and everyone knows it).

Thanks very much for that thorough write-up, 4348!  I'm looking forward to my own appointment in the second week of January, so this is timely for me as well.  I was told by a friend who's gone through the program that I should expect the interviews to be around a half-hour, but perhaps they are different for different people, or maybe different shrinks, or different circumstances.  I'm seeing Dr. Dickey in the morning and Dr. Brown in the afternoon.

QuoteI am currently divided as to whether or not I should file a human rights complaint, to allege discrimination on the basis of age in the area of equal provision of services (age is defined as an age that is 18 or older). I want to have my concerns met at the upcoming policy review. I wonder what I ought to do.

I am aware (because a friend of mine is one of the claimants) that there is another human rights case already in progress (for a couple of years now) which could have some interesting results if they win (for instance, CAMH would lose their sole-provider status).  You might want to wait until that case concludes - they currently have a hearing date in January, although it's been postponed a number of times since last Spring.  But it sounds to me like in you case, it might be best to wait anyway until you see whether the policy review might change things for the better.  Certainly by the time you can mount a case and get it heard, it could be a moot point anyway (you'd be of age, and then some).  And that still doesn't prevent you from fighting such a case after the fact, if you want to, to "grease the wheels" for those who come after - a noble impulse, but not a common one.

Anyway, some things to think about, and my thanks! 

QuoteI did not have any physical examination, but that could be because I am already on HRT.

I'm told that this may be a difference in policy from days of old.  My friend who's fighting the HR case is post-op, having gone through the program some years ago (but eventually leaving it and getting her SRS on her own) when it was still the Clarke Institute.  She had a full physical exam as part of the initial assessment.  Nowadays they apparently don't do it that way.

QuoteBeware of the secretary, she's a total cow (and everyone knows it).

Thanks for that, too!   

Do it! File a complaint! Be an activist! What's the worst that can happen? The worst is that nothing changes.

Since everyone looking at this thread is from Ontario, ask your MPP to support Bill 168, and ask your MP to support Bill 389 if you haven't already done so.

Well well well...

Im an April 2010 graduate from CAMH acceptance to SRS. I got SRS in September....

All I can say is what people say (the bad things) is not entirely real and based on old stuff they read rather then visiting the clinic... HOWEVER, there are some rules and regulation...

If you can try to get with Dr. John Ernest Goodhew on DanForth Ave to get hormones in Toronto.. you will get them faster that way then through CAMH..

#1 Change your name legally..
#2 Make sure you appear/act/speak/maneurism into your aimed gender (why? some people had hard time because they present very male or very female)
#3be on hormones already...
#4 Work or School..

The name change is probably the most important thing since RLE does not really start til that happens...

Now a name change in ontario is $137 and takes 2 months to receive your pink letter with name change... the only small downfall is that you need a guarantor.. in my case I have a lawyer that's known me for years...

If you got these your going to roll for srs in exactly one year from your initial visit...

Dr. T. Wilkie is the new Psychiatrist in charge, but the HEAD is still Dr. Dickie... Dr. T. Wilkie actually sat with me for my final approval (I was her FIRST SRS approval period how's that for size?)

I will be in Toronto on Dec 17th... just for general stuff.. but I will probably stop at the clinic just to say hi to everyone...

Quote from: SaraR on November 30, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
Well well well...

#1 Change your name legally..
#2 Make sure you appear/act/speak/maneurism into your aimed gender (why? some people had hard time because they present very male or very female)
#3be on hormones already...
#4 Work or School..

If you got these your going to roll for srs in exactly one year from your initial visit...

Sorry, I know this isn't really my thread, it's for Hayley McCombs, but I just wanted to clarify.

I first went to CAMH's child/adolescent gender service in 2004 (12/13 years). I started HRT at the beginning of 2006 (14 years), changed my name legally in the middle of 2006 and went full time in my target gender (high school) in that school year, and have been a student ever since. I provided the clinic with extensive documentation of all of this, but they can't consider me as a candidate for SRS until I turn 21, which is in two years.

I'm happy with how the clinic has treated me so far but the policy still prevents me from very necessary care. In fact I think it also contradicts CAMH's own internal policy, the Client Bill of Rights (look this document up if you want to, I can't post a link yet). If I decide to file a human rights complaint, I will talk about it more in the legal thread. I already have all the forms filled out, it's just a matter of submitting them. In the meantime I will contact CAMH's client relations service that deals with complaints regarding their Bill of Rights, and see if I can have an internal investigation done (this should be faster than a legal procedure).

Congratulations on your SRS, Sara, I hope you're having a good recovery. (:

Sorry for the double post but it has its own unique content.

As soon as I figure out how, I will file an internal complaint with CAMH's Client Relations based on these contradictions to the Client Bill of Rights:


Right #2
Right to Freedom from Harm
Every client:
3 ) has the right to be free from discrimination, harassment, retribution, punishment and exploitation.

Right #3
Right to Dignity and Independence
Every client:
2 ) has the right to have services provided in a manner that respects the dignity,
independence and self-determination of the individual.
11 ) has the right to all freedoms in accordance with the law.

Right #4
Right to Quality Services that Comply with Standards
Every client:
1 ) has the right to have services provided in a manner that complies with legal,
professional, ethical, and other relevant standards. !!
2 ) has the right to identify their own needs, to have those needs form the basis
of the development of a plan for services, and to have services provided in accordance with that plan.
3 ) has the right to fair and equitable access to a range of services.
7 ) has a right to choose the least restrictive care.
8 ) has the right to have services provided in a manner that minimizes potential
harm, and optimizes quality of life. !!

In my submission to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg I filed practically the same set of HR violations against the UK's NHS run gender clinic and local NHS.
These people just seem to think that being TS means we have no human rights?

Quote from: SaraR on November 30, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
#1 Change your name legally..
#2 Make sure you appear/act/speak/maneurism into your aimed gender (why? some people had hard time because they present very male or very female)
#3be on hormones already...
#4 Work or School..

Surely this stuff isn't important for the initial assessment - you're saying all that stuff is necessary for SRS approval, right?  For most of that stuff, I'm waiting for the letter from CAMH after the assessment, saying they agree I meet the criteria.  I am already dressing on a regular basis, including going out in public in my target gender, and that is only going to get more frequent as time passes, and I just got my HRT letter yesterday, but for actually GOING on HRT, or changing my name, that will wait until I get their "diagnosis" - I have a wife and kids, and they need to understand this isn't just a "lifestyle choice".

As for work... no prob.  Been with the same company 12 years, making high 5 figures.  Stable home life, too, and no major depression or psychoses...

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on December 01, 2010, 06:27:05 AM
Surely this stuff isn't important for the initial assessment - you're saying all that stuff is necessary for SRS approval, right?  For most of that stuff, I'm waiting for the letter from CAMH after the assessment, saying they agree I meet the criteria.  I am already dressing on a regular basis, including going out in public in my target gender, and that is only going to get more frequent as time passes, and I just got my HRT letter yesterday, but for actually GOING on HRT, or changing my name, that will wait until I get their "diagnosis" - I have a wife and kids, and they need to understand this isn't just a "lifestyle choice".

As for work... no prob.  Been with the same company 12 years, making high 5 figures.  Stable home life, too, and no major depression or psychoses...

Oh but it is very important for the initial assessment else youll be told the same thing... and by the time you get your name change and all that and get an appointment 6 months later... you started the "RLE" from the point your name is changed and you can prove that you work as (Female/Male) new name.

As for the age.. yes your right it's 21 years old.. however, there are some special cases. Wether you fit or not.. the question remains.. I know how it sucks though when your ready at a young age aka (17 for me) and can't do nothing til your older..

I originally went to CAMH a long time ago and i was told i couldnt start hormones til I do the 1 year RLE... i was so dissapointed then I found Dr. HOT HOT HOT goodhew and he prescribed them to me... then I went back to camh and had everything in order and one year later.. i got my letter... then few months srs.

I know with camh you might feel like your getting no where.. but presentation matters BIG time.. if your MTF dont go there and slouch and be straight to the point and scratch yourself... The therapist MUST see that you are ABLE to FUNCTION in society and not be ridiculed as it leads to death/suicide. I was told by Maxine that I pass extremely well then when i saw Dr. Wilkie she was like wow.. I would of not known.. Actually.. when I was sitting in the lobby she passed by me thinking I was "Late" for my appointment... and was a little stunned when Suzanne pointed at me

The ONLY one thing I didnt like was my original entry withn Dr. Dickie.. he asked if I like to masterbate while wearing girls clothes... I was like what the... f........  then he did the whole hand to hand gesture to look at finger size...

Overall I loved it when Maxine was there because I already would give her so much details in the last assessment that she had no idea what else to write about me.. so we just talkeed about random things but long story short her last report was.. this individual should undergo sexual reassignment surgery etc...

so w00t w00t.. im at 3 months post op like i said.. and I can't ask for better results.. im finally free from my past bond..

P.S. Dr. Spiegel is doing a presentation at the 519 center in toronto on Dec 18th for FFS.

My parents currently think I'm insane for not going to CAMH, and that the WPATH standards of care are not as trustworthy as CAMH's standards. Oh, they also believe amongst other things that SRS is multiple procedures, it costs $57000, you can only get HRT through CAMH, and the list goes on. I have to slap some sense into them.

So Sara, I'm on HRT, have a diagnosis of GID, and name change from April of this wear, and I'm full time as of September. From your situation, I take that you managed to skip the inhumane one year pre-HRT RLE, go back after 1 year RLE, and get surgical approval from CAMH.

The whole age 21 thing sounds pretty bad. I guess it's sort of fortunate/unfortunate for me, because a few 8-9 months after my 1 year RLE mark happens, I turn 21. It would be a perfect world if I could go get my surgical approval from CAMH prior to my 21^st birthday, and go for surgery shortly thereafter. That seems like a pipe dream though.

Quote from: In Limbo... on December 01, 2010, 10:01:55 AM
My parents currently think I'm insane for not going to CAMH, and that the WPATH standards of care are not as trustworthy as CAMH's standards. Oh, they also believe amongst other things that SRS is multiple procedures, it costs $57000, you can only get HRT through CAMH, and the list goes on. I have to slap some sense into them.

So Sara, I'm on HRT, have a diagnosis of GID, and name change from April of this wear, and I'm full time as of September. From your situation, I take that you managed to skip the inhumane one year pre-HRT RLE, go back after 1 year RLE, and get surgical approval from CAMH.

The whole age 21 thing sounds pretty bad. I guess it's sort of fortunate/unfortunate for me, because a few 8-9 months after my 1 year RLE mark happens, I turn 21. It would be a perfect world if I could go get my surgical approval from CAMH prior to my 21^st birthday, and go for surgery shortly thereafter. That seems like a pipe dream though.

That's correct trust me'.. it's faster dealing with Dr. Goodhew.. I got my prescription in a single session with him and he's so hot to boot (if you like men) hehehe

I skipped the 1yr RLE HRT + 1yr RLE SRS = 2 years (i just did it in 1 yr from the moment i returned to camh)

I know this one girl who was in montreal when I was there she just had turned 21 (4 days shy from her bday) and got her SRS but she was from BC.. so they kind of have the same ruling....