Just a heads up to my FTM brothers. Something I felt I need to pass on concerning hormones in dairy. Now most of you may be familiar with the growth hormone labeled Recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH),  also known as Recombinant Bovine Somatotropin (rBST). It is a estrogen based growth hormone administered to dairy cattle in order to mass produce milk. Marketed to farmers under the brand name Posilac by Monsanto, and marketed starting in 1993. Milk companies are now required by law to label their milk containers if they are rBST-rBGH free, but did you know that there are six different kinds of steroid hormones that are currently approved by FDA for use in food production in the US that DO NOT have to carry labels? These include estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, zeranol, trenbolone acetate, and melengestrol acetate. Estradiol and progesterone are natural female sex hormones (mainly used in dairy production); testosterone is the natural male sex hormone (mainly used in beef production); zeranol, trenbolone acetate and melengesterol acetate are synthetic growth promoters (mainly used in beef production). Melengestrol acetate is also available in a form that can be added to animal feed. Estradiol, progesterone and testosterone are sex hormones that are made naturally by animals. No regulatory monitoring of these hormones is possible, since it is not possible to separate or tell the difference between the hormones used for treatment from those made by the animal's own body.

The FDA has also been notoriously lax in dealing with the misuse of antibiotics and other drugs in the dairy industry. It is estimated that there are more than 80 different drugs currently used by milk producers. Several of these drugs are passed on to people through milk, as well as through meat from slaughtered dairy cows and calves. Bet you didn't realize that 1/3 of the hamburger meat that you buy is made from what the dairy industry refers to as "spent or culled dairy cows". These are cows that are no longer capable of milk production. Considering that the average life span of a cow is 25-30 years, and most dairy cows in America are "spent" in just 4-5 years, imagine what sort of stressful, unhealthy and taxing short life they must lead? In addition cows are kept pregnant every year, as to provide the next round of future dairy cows, as well as veal (little male dairy cattle = an unfortunate by-product of the dairy industry). So, in addition to the already generous amounts of synthetic female hormones that the dairy industry is providing us with, they are also making sure to extract the milk from re-currently pregnant animals. Simply put....pregnancy hormones such as ESTROGEN and PROLACTIN are circulating at high levels throughout the animals body. YUM!  A word to you folks that shop at Whole Foods to buy ORGANIC milk free of hormones, this includes you too. Organic cows are KEPT pregnant as well. OH BOY!


Monsanto and the FDA claim that rBST-rBGH is a protein hormone and is digested into smaller fragments (peptides and amino acids) when eaten. The rBGH hormone used on dairy cattle is effective in promoting growth in cows, but does not work that way in humans. They claim the same argument concerning any other "natural" hormones found in milk. Be sure to tell yourself this the next time you walk by a 10 year old girl with full breasts and a menstrual period, or heck a 10 year old BOY with boobs for that matter! Wonder why breast cancer, prostate cancer and male impotence are on the rise? 

So, the claim that hormones contained in milk do not survive digestion has been incorrectly applied. Science has ignored a general principle and universal wisdom applied to all mammals. Milk IS a hormonal delivery system. Mechanisms in milk insure that lactoferrins, immunoglobulins and protien hormones do indeed survive digestive processes, and excert biological effects. Mankind might very well wake up in the 21st century and respond to the GOT MILK query with this conclusion: GOT CANCER? 

Myself, I avoid ALL dairy. When I started testosterone I was dairy free, and noticed as I progressed through my transition that my boobs where starting to de-flate and sag a bit. Which was great for me, easier to smash them down into my binder! About 3-4 months into my transition, I decided to addition dairy back into my diet, feeling that I may be missing some important amino acids and other minerals. Stupid decision considering that I was raised on a ranch, and know first hand what goes on with cattle production. I bought organic thinking this would be a "SAFE" choice. Within a month of adding dairy back into my diet, my boobs started to "fill out" again, and I actually had tender breasts! Correlating the dairy addition, I swipe it right back out of my diet ASAP! Within a few days, and I mean literally a few days, my boobs started to de-swell a bit, and I also had some menstrual spotting! I have been on testosterone for 6 months now, and my periods ended within the first couple months of me taking it. My testosterone levels last checked were within the normal range, and my free testosterone was well within the normal range as well....so no aromatizing going on here....this was brought on purely by DAIRY! Don't try to convince me that my estrogen levels were not affected!

This being said, I would suggest for all transmen to drop dairy! If you feel you must have some sort of dairy in your life, please limit your intake of it, and buy organic, at least you will limit the amount of female hormones that you are exposed. Look around, there are lots of dairy replacements made from rice, coconut and soy to fulfill your dairy wants. Be aware that soy is a phyto-estrogen, meaning it mimics estrogen, it will effect you, but the effects of it are short lived. Might not want to eat a big Chinese lunch with loads of soy the same day as a "big date", or you will spend time stuffing your boobs back into your binder!  As for you MTF you might in fact like the way dairy "perks" you up, as long as you are prepared to deal with all of the other CRAP that's in the milk (not very healthy). Hope this reaches everyone...be sure to pass it along!

Cheers, August

I tried being vegan once. I missed real milk. I like Horizon 2%. I was raised in a vegetarian family. I have eaten tons of soy. My natural T levels are still high.

I drink milk and eat yogurt like its my job, I am on a half dose of T because my body took to the T so well that my T levels were too high on a full dose. I have masculinized just fine.

I love yogurt too. There really isn't a good vegan cheese. The vegan yogurt of my choice was by WholeSoy & Co. If I had to drink a milk alternative I would pick unsweetened Almond Breeze.

Quote from: Sharky on November 08, 2010, 08:27:25 PM
I love yogurt too. There really isn't a good vegan cheese. The vegan yogurt of my choice was by WholeSoy & Co. If I had to drink a milk alternative I would pick unsweetened Almond Breeze.

Ever try Daiya?
I love that one, best vegan cheese ever.

Honestly, I strongly agree with decreasing an intake of dairy. There's a lot of unhealthy crap in today's dairy; at least in America there is. At the moment, the USDA and FDA are controlled by persons formerly in the meat, dairy, and food industries, along with lobbyists supporting those industries. It's all about profit, while health is being put at high risk. That's why stuff like this is happening.

Ah, Capitalism should stay out of our food. :\

I love milk and cheese and yogurt. I definitely have taken in large amounts of dairy throughout my life. I may be a heavy guy, but my moobs are no bigger than a bio guy with gynecomastia or even just a heavy guy. I'm pre T as well and look well enough in the masculine range.

Ive always hated plain milk. I only will have it in my cereal. I dont really care about yogurt but I dont dislike it. I do love cheese though..

I just wanted to mention to the guys who say they love cheese that there is a cracker barrel brand block of cheese that you can by at the store. It's in a green wrapper and says no growth hormones added. Also some wrapping used on meats can give off female hormones but I think only when it is hot & some of the plastic type shower curtains will give it off after it gets hot. Doctor Oz did an episode on it but I don't remember everything, it's some weird stuff. If anyone is interested in hearing the rest let me know & I'll post a link if I can find it.

August: Sorry for stealing the thread for a minute. Thanks for posting up the info

Quote from: utouto on November 08, 2010, 10:12:29 PM
Ever try Daiya?
I love that one, best vegan cheese ever.

Honestly, I strongly agree with decreasing an intake of dairy. There's a lot of unhealthy crap in today's dairy; at least in America there is. At the moment, the USDA and FDA are controlled by persons formerly in the meat, dairy, and food industries, along with lobbyists supporting those industries. It's all about profit, while health is being put at high risk. That's why stuff like this is happening.

Ah, Capitalism should stay out of our food. :\

Yeah I ordered some, and a place near me makes pizza with it. Its better than most fake cheeses. I've only tried the mozzarella style though.

I ate a ton of dairy as a kid and never really got breasts at all, hah...I figure it's probably something best eaten very moderately, though.

But I have to agree with Sharky that Horizon 2% is delicious.

Hey,
I'm a vegan, and even without the added hormones and lots of soy, I have high T levels naturally.  I guess everyone is affected differently.

Monsanto is an evil company, but without going into the whys and all that you can get hormone free dairy. Even Kraft now has an rBGH free cheese (or so they claim). Hormone balance is a very delicate thing in a body. Also, there's a ton of variation. I'm proof that someone can have a higher than normal T level and not have any legit health conditions (PCOS, thyroid problems, adrenal problems, etc.). For bio men, the influx of phyto or pseudo estrogen in their bodies CAN cause things like "moobs" - or can cause "low T" or other problems. Beer has tons of phytoestrogens in it. It's not just dairy.

There's also problems with soy. Soy is one of the hugest GMO crops on the planet and we all still don't know what the long term effects of GMO foods on a body is but early research doesn't look that great. Soy is also not a complete protein. It's also FULL of phytoestrogens (this is why menopausal women are recommended to eat soy to replace the estrogen their overlies are no longer pumping out).

The bottom line is, yes, there are some very questionable additives to foods as well as just the actual make up of the food. A little bit of something will probably not be what kills you, but that's true of most things that in large quantities can lead to degenerative diseases, cancers, hormone imbalances, organ malfunction and eventually death. Should you fear what you eat? No. Just like you can't fear breathing air that's often filled with pollutants. Or fear going out driving because of an accident.

You can blindly just eat crap processed and fast foods and you'll probably end up with health problems. Or you could be that one freak of nature like that guy that supposedly eats at McDonalds every day of his life and supposedly has no health problems. If you have hearty genes, that might pull you through (hell my grandfather ate anything that came close to his mouth, smoked for 50 years, and was an alcoholic for at least that many years and you know what did him in at age 83? A case of pneumonia.)

My personal approach? I feel healthier and happier if I feel like I have some control over what I eat and my environment. I don't use any chemicals in my house or on my body. Whenever possible I eat local foods that were grown organically (and I know the farmer - not a tall order where I live!). If I buy processed foods at all they're organic or I know what every ingredient on the label is. I avoid any GMO foods. I'm real picky about vitamins and supplements I take. I moved from the big city out to the countryside to improve my environment. I use water filters. I have a natural organic mattress. THOSE are all things I have control over though. The things I don't have control over, I don't worry about much. It might sound extreme to do all those things, but I've found it hasn't been hard at all. Yeah it's cost me a few more $$ to go au-natural but for the most part I'm happy and that's what counts.

I don't like dairy that much anyway.  I don't drink milk, hate cream and custard, don't butter my bread, am fussy with ice cream and exceptionally fussy with cheese.  I eat cheese when it's in a main course and will have flavoured yogurt and buttercream in cake now and again but that's as far as dairy goes for me. 

I really wonder how much the estrogen in dairy can really affect you though, I guess it depends on genetics and your medical history.  I was on birth control for 6 years and that gave me hellish fat thighs and bigger boobs but they have shrunk since dropping the birth control and working out regularly (and binding which has made them easier to push flat).