Apparently this guy rushed into things and decided that since he made a mistake we all have.It seems only he gets to do it.I just thought it was funny that he did twice what many of us would kill to do once.Oh the joys of being rich and careless. The comments are amazing it's nice to see so much support from bio folks.

http://jezebel.com/5684519/man-who-had-two-sex-changes-says-they-should-be-outlawed

Look's like someone who commented on the article had it right

Quote from:  link=topic=87008.msg620357#msg620357 date=1289274866
It sounds more like this guy thought a gender reassignment surgery would change him on the inside, rather than making the outside match what was already in.

I think he's wrong, just because it didn't work out for him doesn't mean it won't for everyone. Seriously, this guy decides he isn't a woman and suddenly he forgets the struggle of what he felt before he got his surgery?! These are the kind of things that make people think we can live without transitioning and that transition is bad for us

Sounds like a typical richy rich that can find themselves.  Just because he bought his way through the process, does not mean that is should be illegal.

He should be declared Non compos mentis, and his money put in the hands of someone who has half a brain.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 08, 2010, 11:33:31 PM
Sounds like a typical richy rich that can find themselves.  Just because he bought his way through the process, does not mean that is should be illegal.

He should be declared Non compos mentis, and his money put in the hands of someone who has half a brain.

You said it. /high five 

Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 08, 2010, 11:33:31 PM
He should be declared Non compos mentis, and his money put in the hands of someone who has half a brain.

Hell to the yes.

Coming from a libertarian: hands off my body, a-hole.

Well honestly, it's clear that he didn't follow proper protocols in obtaining his SRS.  He came out, began taking hormones, and had GCS/BA all in the span of a single year; saying that the system is broken is bull->-bleeped-<- when you yourself didn't actually participate.  Quintessential demonstration of the importance of therapy for transgendered individuals. 

Quote from: long.897 on November 09, 2010, 01:55:54 AM
Well honestly, it's clear that he didn't follow proper protocols in obtaining his SRS.  He came out, began taking hormones, and had GCS/BA all in the span of a single year; saying that the system is broken is bull->-bleeped-<- when you yourself didn't actually participate.  Quintessential demonstration of the importance of therapy for transgendered individuals.

Not really - in a way you are making the same mistake as kane is, and trying to apply a universal set of rules to people who are as different as chalk and cheese.

I too broke the system - but I have always been happy with the result. Forcing me though unwanted therapy would have been pointless and would merely have made me antagonistic. I, and others like me, should not be forced through a system just because there are a few idiots.

It is just as wrong to put me through needless suffering and delay to protect him. I am not him, you do not help me by protecting him. I am equally valid, I should have equal rights to treatment that meets MY need - which was at that point to get on with it after a childhood which had been largely spent in target gender anyway.

One size does NOT fit all in this world.

If anything it's actually a demonstration of two things:

1. You have to be prepared to take responsibility for you own choices in life and not try to use your mistakes as a justification for trying to do the impossible and protect people from themselves.

2. We need a proper medical diagnostic test for the condition and not all this psycho waffle which is far too easy to confuse. Brain activation pattern scanners, genetic tests etc can, and ultimately will yield the results we seek, not endless psychobabble.

In order for it to have been the wrong thing he had to lie to get through the process. That's why they make us jump through so many hoops because a sex change isn't something to do lightly. The process only works if you are honest with yourself, honest with your therapists, and honest with your doctors. So there is no reason to outlaw a process that helps the people who genuinely need it, just because someone lied to get it.

Quote from: rejennyrated on November 09, 2010, 02:17:54 AM
2. We need a proper medical diagnostic test for the condition and not all this psycho waffle which is far too easy to confuse. Brain activation pattern scanners, genetic tests etc can, and ultimately will yield the results we seek, not endless psychobabble.

I can see that being wildly unpopular.

It's the political position of the transgender community that anybody who states they feel female or male, IS female or male. And that there is no such thing as transgender people who are 'more real' than others.

The problem is I highly highly doubt that is actually true (and I'm not outright saying it is or it isn't.... because of course the very existence of this political position is evident in the prohibition on this forum from making any comments to that effect).

Psychobabble solves the political problems science would likely raise.

Quote from: Ashley4214 on November 09, 2010, 02:37:59 AM
I can see that being wildly unpopular.

It's the political position of the transgender community that anybody who states they feel female or male, IS female or male. And that there is no such thing as transgender people who are 'more real' than others.

The problem is I highly highly doubt that is actually true (and I'm not outright saying it is or it isn't.... because of course the very existence of this political position is evident in the prohibition on this forum from making any comments to that effect).

Psychobabble solves the political problems science would likely raise.

I suspect that with hopefully no exceptions a valid test would validate anyone who was being truthful in their responses, because as Susan says, if you are not lying to get what you want then you should not be stopped from having it!

This isn't about elitism. Its about establishing truthfulness.

Basically if you take the view that people are what they say they are then you also have to accept that some will either delude themselves or they will outright lie to get it.

Personally I don't give a monkeys if someone does that and ruins their life, but I DO care very much if such people then create a backlash amongst Cis people and thus result in the many for whom this treatment is a life saver, being needlessly and wrongly obstructed.

My view is that the treatment should be easier to obtain, not ever more difficult as is the current trend.

When I went through RLE was one year, only one signature was require for surgery and hormones were routinely prescribed on informed consent. Since then the path has become progressively more difficult  to the point where I KNOW I would not have made it under the current system.

I also KNOW that the treatment was right for me and after nearly 30 years I really don't think anyone has the right to question that - therefore I think that I have a basis for saying that the current system is flawed and needs a better system of diagnosis.

That isn't elitist. It's just fact. If your current diagnostic system drives many people who would benefit from surgery, to suicide because they can't get it, and allows others who are self deluded like Kane, to access it, then that system is clearly flawed. Period!

lols!
Congratulations Charles Kane:

Not that it's anywhere close to comparable, but...

"OMG, I wanted to get an amazing tattoo, but it turned out I didn't want Tweety Bird inked on my back so I had to have it removed!  TATTOOS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL, LOLZ!"

What kind of logical flatulence would lead one to advocate restricting others' life decisions because of one's own bad judgment?

Jenny - the problem is that any diagnostic test has a nonzero rate of both false positives and false negatives. There's no such thing as a perfect test. Even ones you'd think would be simple and definitive - bacterial cultures, blood tests for chemical concentrations - fail sometimes. Remote imaging tests (CT, MRI, X-ray), which are what we'd almost certainly need to rely on if brain structures were found to be the determining factor, have much higher failure rates. Complex conditions involving a number of different structures are easy to miss or misdiagnose. And if there were a genetic test, there'd the the issue that there are often quite a few different gene variants or combinations thereof that produce the same condition; we couldn't ever be certain that we'd identified them all.

Would it be nice to have a lab test that could help confirm a clinical diagnosis? Sure it would. But I'd hate to see it used as the definitive diagnostic tool. Measuring, say, patients' BSTc to determine their brain sex might work really well...but then, measuring infants' penis/clitoris to determine their sex works pretty damn well too. "Good" isn't the same as "infallible."

Quote from: kyril on November 09, 2010, 03:30:59 AM
Jenny - the problem is that any diagnostic test has a nonzero rate of both false positives and false negatives. There's no such thing as a perfect test. Even ones you'd think would be simple and definitive - bacterial cultures, blood tests for chemical concentrations - fail sometimes. Remote imaging tests (CT, MRI, X-ray), which are what we'd almost certainly need to rely on if brain structures were found to be the determining factor, have much higher failure rates. Complex conditions involving a number of different structures are easy to miss or misdiagnose. And if there were a genetic test, there'd the the issue that there are often quite a few different gene variants or combinations thereof that produce the same condition; we couldn't ever be certain that we'd identified them all.

Would it be nice to have a lab test that could help confirm a clinical diagnosis? Sure it would. But I'd hate to see it used as the definitive diagnostic tool. Measuring, say, patients' BSTc to determine their brain sex might work really well...but then, measuring infants' penis/clitoris to determine their sex works pretty damn well too. "Good" isn't the same as "infallible."

Fair point Kyril. There is no such thing as perfection, but in that case I would rather see a hundred Kanes allowed to ruin their own lives by their own decisions than one person commit suicide because a therapist wrongly obstructed them.

My problem was that my first "therapist" in 1976/77 decided that as I was only 16 going on 17 it was his job to "protect me from myself" and thus he lost me the golden chance to avoid all of the pain that goes with this situation. As I was PAIS I was a late developer and by 16 I had not gone through any real puberty... If I had transitioned and begun HRT then I would not have needed any electrolysis for a start.

That is why when I went for my second try in my early twenties I was absolutely determined to bust the system and avoid therapy delays completely. Thankfully I did. These days I might not have done and I find it frightening to think that I might not have survived. Trouble is, for every one like kane, there are several like me, but somehow the gutter press and many of the cis public don't seem so keen to acknowledge that statistic.

Instead they want to use the ONE failure as a justification to put the rest of us through prolonged and ever harsher pain.

The underlying truth is that either a person must take responsibility for their own actions or we accept that it is okay to let someone else make the decisions for us. (I know where I stand!)

A sane and reasonable person will do anything and everything they can to ensure they are making the right decision when the consequences are as massive as this one.

In the "old days" that is exactly how things worked - you made your decision and "the doctors" simply assessed your capability of making an informed and considered decision - they did not make the decision for you. I was "assessed" in one day, in about 4 hours of interviews, and the result was support for 'whatever course I chose' and that was it.

(In fairness, I had chosen my path years earlier and was always pushing 'the leading edge' so I would have done what I did no matter what the shrinks said.)

This guy is a fruit cake.

He actually looked stunning as a woman but he obviously has a psychiatric issue.

There is always one in every group.

Caroline

He/She/He is a uber-selabriity-sensationalist chasing tw#t!! 

And comes to media attention every few years or so, when he gets yet another film company to shadow his dubious life story....

The last movie of his I glimpsed briefly had him buying a super-yacht which he tried to pilot down the estuary and made a real hash of.... he then never visited the boat again...

And tried to sue all involved....

Kane obviously has the attention-span of a gnat.... and is a serial sensation seeker.... on that score I feel very, very sorry for his third or is it his fourth decades his junior wife?

And it just goes to prove kids money cannot buy you happiness... if a restless soul you be....lol

if only there was a surgery that could turn a persons arrogance and ego into a brain.

I mean seriously you mangle yourself because your an idiot and don't go for the proper psychological checks, pay private doctors over £100,000 to say whatever you want to hear, Then guess who's fault it is... Of course it's not his. It's the medical community! and the Trans community and anyone else as long as he doesn't have to take responsibility he is like the worst stereotype of a wealthy individual.

I'd feel sorry for what his mistake had put himself through and pain he'd suffered... if he was human enough to empathize with.
Seriously why is that moron trusted with money he couldn't be trusted with a spoon.

I cannot believe he went through the real life experience without having doubts and if so, why did his therapist not spot it.   I am aware of cases where people change their mind but that is prior to surgery.

A hint of caution.   This article appears in the Daily Mail, the house journal of the British equivalent to the Tea Party!   

I don't believe this story. There are just too many anomolies. I suspect an agenda, frankly.

This is something this guy is reported as saying, as reported in a BBC News article:

Quote"When I was in the psychiatric hospital there was a man on one side of me who thought he was King George and another guy on the other side who thought he was Jesus Christ. I decided I was Sam."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6923912.stm

I'm trained in psychiatry. This is utter nonsence. The sort of thing that would be written in some trashy book in the early part of the last century. It was a done in an attempt to explain the symptoms of people who suffer from depersonalisation which happened post WW1 quite a bit. But the symptoms are never as frank as that.

This guy claimed that his mental illness came as a result of his divorce and alienation from his family. Yet if he was alienated from his family, he must have been a pretty bad sort. In any case, to suffer a complete depersonalisation crisis from divorce, he would have had to have had a pretty weak personality in the first place. He clearly didn't since he was a property developer with connections with the ME.

But, even assuming he did suffer a depersonalisation crisis. he would definately have been precluded from gender reassingment surgery. Simply because any conscent he would give would be completely invalid.

But as I said, this seems to be part of an agenda. And a pretty flawed one at that.