I have been think about this little topic more than a little bit lately.
Been bi-gender I have both a male and a female side.
I know that I Jillieann would jump at the change to leave this body for a female body and never look back. I'd leave JR with our lovely family in a heart beat. Because he loves our family and would do a great job at being husband, dad and grandfather without me. And JR would be better off if I left too. I do like him and I love our family but I feel so trapped. At one point over this last year I tried to destroy JR by denying his existence like he had mine for more years than I want to admit.
JR has been nice to me recently and allowed me allot of freedom but .............
He is a good guy but it is really rough sharing this body together.
You see I would like to transition but JR is just happy being a male except for my feeling that keep upsetting him. He often response to what I feel because as a woman, my feelings, emotions, are stronger than his.
I know to some of you this may sound nutty, and that maybe I need to be committed or something
But I just had to express my feelings and be truthful about it. In fact JR is just now realizing how strong I feel about this.

Compromise is what JR and I have to do to survive and the thought of find another body is pure science fiction.

Jillieann

Sorry, I don't think I get it. Do you feel like 2 entirely different people or was it 2 sides to the same person?  Assuming it's 2 different people, is each aware of what the other is doing at the time while in control?  Who decides when to swap out personalities?  I thought I understood it, but now I'm more confused than ever.  Jillieann/JR, would you mind explaining a little better?  I really would like to know more.

Melissa

  I honestly can't believe that you would be better off without JR and that he would be better off without you. It sounds to me like you're both hurting. You've each tried to destroy the other. It sounds like you two need to start healing.

This may sound stupid, but have you tried writing down what you like about each other and what you don't like? I think if you each realize just how much you two actually value each other and need each other, it might be easier to coexist. My therapy words are failing me at the moment but I think things will be easier for you when you each realize just how special the other is. (There's a word that expresses that last bit just a little better; if you know what I mean please substitute it.)

I know my case is different than yours. For me it's kind of like two spirits fused at birth. But I know that when I stopped thinking of my female side as the part of me that was wrong and really began to understand just how it makes me uniquely me and how I would be lost without it I began to feel so much better about myself. Learning to value my female side is making me a better person if for no other reason than I'm finally feeling free to be me. And I'm really trying to stop thinking of my male side as "the real me" just because it matches my physical body and I was raised as a male. I have to respect both sides (which is different than what I think people think I'm doing when I say I'm keeping both sides in balance) or I'm not happy as me.

You're right, you and JR have to compromise. I think that will be easier to do when you're actively building each other up instead of tearing each other down.

Hi Jilliean,

I have always worried when you stay you have two different sides and need to comprimise. You are one beatiful person and I wish you would think that way. I can see why you are torn in two - you have a great family that you want to keep yet you feminine side needs to be recognised. Just enjoy who you are.

Alice

It's easy to see the rainbow.... getting to its base is the difficult part!  I think that is the problem that Jilliann is having issues with.  You just can't make a decision about this, can you doll?  I understand.  You have responsibilities and commitments you have made that you feel cannot be broken.  I don't envy you. But many of us (including me) have had to face these same decisions.  And you are well aware of the results.  We have lost an aweful lot in the process. 

I want you to know and feel that you have a support system here.  You are welcome to cry on my shoulder any time.  I've got some pretty asorbant shoulders. 

My best to you doll.  It's a tough burden to bear, any way you look at it. 

Melissa,
Each of us is very much similar but different and yet we are the same person. I notices that I, Jillieann, likes going to the mall JR is okay with it but it doesn't thrill him. We both are drive to accomplishing a task we set our mind to, but JR like PC Tech work and I like working on the PC, (using a program to complete a task.

Yes we talk to each our feelings are shared and memories too. At times we even joke with each other. Most everything we do is shared.

The weird thing is I, JR, don't always know all of what Jillieann is thinking and till it is shared. For that matter until I say it or write it down I don't always no all that I'm thinking either. But sometimes we can hid from one another sort of. It's like one of us goes to sleep while the other is still awake.

As far as who is in control that often happens instantly. The one that seem to have the best abilities in a give situation comes forward or what I don't like is the one that other expect to deal with. Let me explain when I working on as a PC Tech, JR is in control, when dealing with people Jillieann is usually in control. My wife doesn't like Jillieann so she (Jillieann) is very shy around her. I hope this helps you to understand Melissa.

Casey thank you for the sharing what I like about each side of me. Wow that is a good idea. We will try doing that.

Thank you Alice for the kind words. I do really know that I need all of me to be complete and if Jillieann left I... we......... she is where my compassion and my emotions live. And I really do need JR he is where my strength and hope lives. We will work this out but just needed to write down some of this internal struggle that we are going through.

Dear Tink thank you and I hope your right about the rainbow. We have already come alone way down the road to discovering who I am.

Jillieann wanted to share her, our feelings, and it is good that she can feel free to do just that. It helps the healing to share openly and honestly.

Oh Jillieann want me to tell you that we feel better now so don't worry, but that is not true we really don't feel allot better. But we are both determined to get through this, so we will.


Jillieann/JR

Thanks J/J, it certainly helps somewhat.  I guess I want to understand how other people are, so I can help relate it to myself.  I guess I feel something similar, but I wouldn't call it male/female, but more like dominant/submissive and I switch modes depending on the particular circumstances.  The dominant role has leadership quality to it, where as the submissive role tends to be kind and passive.  I'm sure I've shown both sides on the board.  Now saying that, I don't feel like I'm 2 different people, nor male or whatever, it's just more like I switch between roles that work out well in the situation I'm dealing with.  The thing is, I always feel like I am and identify as a female.  Anyways, thanks for the explanation.

Melissa

I wanted to contribute another bigender perspective for those who don't feel they understand so well.

A bigendered person identifies as having seperate male and female personas, like two people sharing one body.

The association between the male and female personas of a bigendered individual is can be different for each person. For the most part, how the two parts developed together and how close they feel to each other dictates the amount of internal conflict that is experienced. Ranges from full out hatred to absolute love can be experienced between these two based on the person and each bigendered person can move either direction growing closer or further apart as they proceed through life.

In the case of Jilleanne and JR, they earlier experienced a desire to remove the other one which has caused some animosity that will take some time to heal. They would agree they are making wonderful progress towards working together. Ideally though, as it stands now, they feel they might be happier if they could be seperate for a number of reasons, including their wife not really appreciating Jilleanne as well as Jilleannes desire to be a physical woman. Forgive me Jilleanne and JR if I did not do your situation justice.

Jilleanne/JR and me have discussed whether we would get a procedure done were it possible to give each of our two personas their own bodies. Where as they, felt that such an operation were it possible would be beneficial to them, I felt significantly different. Even were it possible, I wouldn't want Marq and Mia to be seperate. Having lived my entire life in pretty constant balance, we would feel like part of us were always missing. We need each other more then we could ever describe. In cases were Mia's patience keeps Marq from getting upset, that check wouldn't be there. Likewise all the times that Marq's straightfoward nature has kept Mia from getting lost in the details would also be missed.

Further on that topic, we're confident that were we seperate in body, we wouldn't want to leave the others company for our love for each other is absolute. This would displace our poor wife from the relationship since she would not be able to come between us. But thats getting into something entirely different.

On a postive note, although Jilleann and JR are working their problems out, everytime I have the fortune to talk to them, they seem to be growing closer every time and I can only stand and applaud their progress as I watch it. No they aren't crazy, people find it too easy to dismiss something difficult to understand as being wrong, when time and time again, our differences are what define us.

Marq and Mia

Thank you Marq and Mia.
Yes you got me pegged.
But sometime I don't feel like i'm going forward.

I have enjoy many a conversation on Messenger with them.
It is nice to know that others have felt simlar to me.

Jillieann/JR

Hey no one has metion my signature picture of the two reindeer snow ball fighting I think it sums me up.
One JR and one is Jillieann. Owww I put JR first.

Jillieann/ Jr

I think I figured out a little more about what I was describing.  It does kind of feel like there's 2 people inside me, one masculine, one feminine, but they are both female, which works out well bodywise.   The masculine one tends to be much more logical and the feminine one more emotional.  One thing is that the logical one side is able to take a broad look at things without plugging in emotions and the feminine one is more empathetic and intuitive.  Now one thing is they seem to be present at the same time and work in a cooperative manner and the result is me.  I think having this complexity inside me is a major reason I haven't needed much therapy.  Both sides are able to counsel each other.  They take turns being the one in charge depending on the situation and which one is tired.  Sometimes I  can actually separate the 2 sides and actually have 2 simultaneous, but separate thought processes going on.  It's really eerie when I do that and usually pretty draining at the same time.  Also, many times I can have them work on the same process and the speed at which I think can be downright scary.

Now the way I stated this puts things into a very good perspective.  It's kind of like being a double transsexual because both needed to transition.  But the need to transition was still there badly.  So, now that I am almost done with transition, I have been feeling much better.

So, I think that describes my slight confusion about myself really well.

Melissa

QuoteI think I figured out a little more about what I was describing.  It does kind of feel like there's 2 people inside me, one masculine, one feminine, but they are both female, which works out well bodywise.   The masculine one tends to be much more logical and the feminine one more emotional.  One thing is that the logical one side is able to take a broad look at things without plugging in emotions and the feminine one is more empathetic and intuitive.

Wow Melissa. Very interesting post, you may very well be bigendered too. You definitely share many significant similarities with us.

QuoteNow one thing is they seem to be present at the same time and work in a cooperative manner and the result is me.  I think having this complexity inside me is a major reason I haven't needed much therapy.  Both sides are able to counsel each other.  They take turns being the one in charge depending on the situation and which one is tired.  Sometimes I  can actually separate the 2 sides and actually have 2 simultaneous, but separate thought processes going on.  It's really eerie when I do that and usually pretty draining at the same time.  Also, many times I can have them work on the same process and the speed at which I think can be downright scary.

Also Wow, I feel the same way. I'm usually in a very good mood all the time because the two sides balance out my emotions. Neat.

QuoteIt's kind of like being a double transsexual  because both needed to transition.

I had never heard of that before. Very interesting idea.

So yeah Melissa check out some of the other posts that me, Jilleanne/JR, Vanessa V, and Simone/Paul have posted and let us know if you find any astounding parallels.

Marq and Mia

Ok, but like I said, both sides are female, so I don't know if that would technically be "bi-gendered" unless the gender is irrelevant.  Also, I do read a lot of those posts, which is one reason I was reading this one.

Melissa

Quote from: Jillieann/JR on December 22, 2006, 06:46:21 AM
Hey no one has metion my signature picture of the two reindeer snow ball fighting I think it sums me up.
One JR and one is Jillieann. Owww I put JR first.

Jillieann/ Jr

aww, that's cute.

Wow, that's really interesting Melissa. And your complexity may very well be the reason (or prime reason anyway) you haven't needed much therapy. They say that people who embody polar opposites (whether seperate personas or one fused persona) tend to cope better since they have two different ways they can handle a situation.

The other thing is I don't identify as androgyne in either looks or personality.

Melissa

But that isn't necessary. I would think that having the polar opposites you have would make it quite reasonable to see yourself as two people. Gender is quite a different issue altogether. Someone who is both extroverted and introverted might see themselves as two people too. It's just that for androgynes one persona is male and the other is female. It's kind of a gender quirk. Duality of nature has nothing to do with gender.

Hmm. Is that about as clear as mud?

Quote from: Casey on December 22, 2006, 04:08:19 PM
Hmm. Is that about as clear as mud?

lol yeah.

Melissa

Hmmm. The posts here have really made me think. I definitely have a masculine and a feminine side.
The masculine side is very defined and so is the feminine. The masculine side is ridiculously male and the female side ridiculously female. But I identify as a male in a female body.
I am transsexual, but not a stereotypical male. I've done things that if people knew about them would say I'm not trans, but I am. I've come to the conclusion that, while I'm a man who was born/raised female, it's not as simple as that.  This thread has caught my interest.

Hi Jillianne/JR,

I beleive we are all bigendered. We are all made from one man and one woman. We are then taught by both men and women. It's no wonder we feel both feminine and masculine at the same time. As for personnas or how we present ourselves, that is a totally different thing.

I had a pretend male character that I played.  I played the role based on what I learned about the masculine. I don't have most of those feelings, but I do have some. I don't think things like logical thinking are a masculine domain just as I don't beleive that the ability to nurture is a feminine thing. Woman can and do think logically and men can and do nurture thier wives and children. I beleive it's just as part of humanity.

This gets all confused when we don't feel we are feeling what others with the same kind of body as us, feels. It was apparent to me from a very early age that I was not like other boys. I had three older brothers and two older sisters and it was clear to me, I was not like my brothers who were just one and two years older than me, respectively.

We are all two people because we were made from two people. We feel both feminine and masculine because we were made from both feminine and masculine. This has nothing to do with our gender identity. Just accept it and enjoy it.

Love always,
Elizabeth